[dkstories] Let's Do It Chapter 24

[Altimexis]

It's Up!

[Gil Andrews]

Excellent chapter. It's got me thinking. I comment more later after a few more post are up. Don't want to spoil anything for someone who hasn't read yet.

[BeaStKid]

Nice and damn interesting!!

[Rad]

first of all, I'm all against toying with other people's feelings like that...it's well, wrong in so many levels for me. that guy was grieving...it's seems so...evil to gave him hope like that & crush it later. cold-bloodedly

but then again, I'm sure the Soviets would've done the very same thing if an opportunity was presented to them vis-a-vis to an american

(sigh) I guess humans are just, basically, capable of doing anything with total regards of other people's feelings.

 

ah well, looks like it's gonna be scanning the pages from now on until this episode's over. I'd hate to see how hurt the old man's gonna be.

 

cheers!

 

Rad

 

as for "threatened the liberties of people all over the world" some people have genuine difference of opinion on what liberty means. even back then (and now) communism had it's genuine adherents who were not corrupt nor abusive. they're in the minority, of course.

[pitchan]

I totally agree with Rad. As much as I like Brian and Davey, I think they are doing something wrong. What exactly are they trying to do? Get that guy to play traitor to his own personal beliefs just cause he doesn't believe in the same cause as them? And they are doing it for their own gain, totally disregarding others. They might be the 'good' guys compared to the Soviets but their actions are not very good.

And I don't think the Soviets are as bad as the Americans paint them out to be. It might not be a very good system for all I know, but I don't think it would go to the extent of ''threatening the liberties of people all over the world''.

I'm a bit sick here so I don't think I'm making sense here...I might be able to be more coherent later.

[Rigel]

I think the morality of the boys' relationship with Gospodin Verakov could be much more complex. Here is an old man with no family left. They are offering him the hope of connection and of famliy. To be sure, on the part of the boys, it's in bad faith, since they know they are lying and the relationship is based on fallacy. But they actually could develop close ties with Verakov. If they are prepared to continue the warmth of those ties until Verakov's death, or even more, continue the relationship even after it can be proven to be false (as through DNA testing), then Verakov has gained himself a family and great happiness. He gets to be adopted by the boys, whether there is actual blood relationship or not.

 

Okay, there is some spying on the side that complicates the matter, but I'm all for developing kinship ties, and realize that these ties don't necessarily revolve around who is related by blood. The whole concept of fostership and adoption is based on this.

 

--Rigel

[Altimexis]

I totally agree with Rad. As much as I like Brian and Davey, I think they are doing something wrong.

 

And I don't think the Soviets are as bad as the Americans paint them out to be. It might not be a very good system for all I know, but I don't think it would go to the extent of ''threatening the liberties of people all over the world''.

I'm a bit sick here so I don't think I'm making sense here...I might be able to be more coherent later.

 

I hear what you're saying, but that was a very different time and during the cold war, there really was a wartime mentality between the Americans and the Soviets. In that era, countries were either first world (largely the US and Western Europe), second world (the Soviet Block), or third world - that's where the term "third world" came from. The Americans and Soviets squared off against one another by manipulating 3rd world countries to do their bidding, and there were many proxy wars around the globe - for example, the war between the Soviet-installed government of Afghanistan and the so-called "freedom-fighters", supported by the US and among whom was Osama bin Laden. At one time, Afghanistan was solidly controlled by the Soviets and so the US spent millions of dollars arming the Pakistanis, assuming that the Soviets ultimate intent was to invade Pakistan, giving themselves a warm water port. Because of the US involvement in Pakistan, India, the "world's largest democracy", allied themselves with the Russians, something that is alluded to in the first Do Over story. But I digress . . .

 

The major point I'm trying to make here is that we all thought nuclear war was around the corner and our governments (the US was far from alone in this) did things that would be considered unsavory today, such as supporting brutal dictators like Saddam Hussein. Both sides did things that I'm sure they now regret. There are no rules in the game of spying other than the prime rule of not getting caught, and there are undoubtedly going to be casualties along the way. Knowing that Alexander Shevardnadze can and would start WW III, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands if not billions in all-out nuclear war, taking advantage of an older and largely innocent man's emotions is a small price to pay. It may not be ethical, but neither is war.

 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion, I really enjoyed this chapter! There are a lot of different ways Dan could go with this and I'm sure Dan will take it in a direction none of us had thought of. That said, I think it likely that Brian and Davey will do all they can to prevent Alexi Shevardnadze from changing the future. Apparently he is coming back after all, and they can do a lot to keep him from bringing his father to power, including killing him, killing his father or discrediting his father so that he has no influence in the Communist party.

 

I'm curious about the second blood test Davey submitted himself to. I'm assuming this is a DNA test, but won't that prove that he's not Verakov's son? Or perhaps other CIA operatives will modify the test results.

 

In any case, great work Dan - you've kept us on our toes!

[theschnauzers]

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

 

Clearly the CIA's intended leaks of information got to the KGB, and the faculty at Moscow State University.

 

And there are hints in this chapter that Davey and Brian do have misgivings about leading Verakov on. Some real life historical points, which I wonder if Dan is going to use or not:

Riasa Gorbachev (the late wife of Mikihal) was a professor at Moscow State University during this time period.

 

When Gorbachove became head of the Soviet Communist Party, and President of the Soviet Union, Eduard Shevardnadze became the foriegn minister of the U.S.S>R. After the end of the Soviet Union, he became the first president of the independent Republic of Georgia.

 

Knowing this I start to wonder if Davey and Brian somehow play a role that leads Gorbachov to power. That would be one way of blocking Alexei, and it was Gorbachov whose reforms led to the end of the Soviet Union.

 

As to Svoet/American espionage, it was always an issue in Soveit -era Moscow. All Americans were under the watchful eye of the KGB, and it was virtually impossible for Americans to go anywhere without the KGB knowing about it. Likewise, Soviets in the U/S/ couldn't go anywhere in the U.S. without tje FBI knowing about it; so it worked both ways.

[Rigel]

I have to excuse myself from any speculation about Dan's contra-factual history of the Soviet Union here. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, I understood Russia and the Soviet Union better than most Americans; when the Soviet Union fell apart, I discovered that my own explanations and predictions were far more accurate than any of the expert talking heads the media could drum up. But I was also very heavily into Georgian culture, and saw the Soviet break-up through Georgian as well as Russian lenses. Eduard Shevardnadze and his real life children (Manana and Paata) were in fact Georgian nationalists rather than Soviet nationalists. Alexei is Dan's creation out of whole cloth, and his character is so inventive and contrafactual as a Soviet nationalist that my analyses can't possibly work. I can still enjoy the human drama of Dan's stories; it's just that the political intrigue stays alienated from reality for me and remains purely fictional.

 

--Rigel