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Do Over Redux

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I will comment on this more in a future blog (it's bed time for me right after this), but let me say that I REALLY like and appreciate these reviews by Novelty. I may not always agree with what he says, sometimes I wince in acknowledgement of having made a boo boo or fallen flat at some part of the story, but overall they really let me know what I'm doing good in and where I need to make an improvement.


They help make this story better, and help me to improve as a writer.


That's for my blog though, but the reason I am posting here, now is to make sure that using this forum and thread (or starting another one) in order to discuss this story or any other story by me has my Stamp of Approval as an author. I'd love to see y'all talking about this story, speculating about where it's going, and saying what you like, dislike, or dream about happening.


I won't promise it won't have an effect on the story, but in the end, this is MY story that I'm writing. Decisions on what happens in it will be made in the end by me based on my vision as its creator. If I like something I see, it might just find its way into the story. That will be my decision to make.


I'm not going to come into this or any other discussion thread about the story. This is YOUR place, the readers, to discuss and hypothesize. If things get a little heated, I might come in and try to calm things down. When there's something in here I want to respond to directly (like I'm going to do with at least one thing Novelty included in his review), I'll do that in my blog where it belongs.


This space here is yours...fire away!

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I'm new to the forum, although I've been reading Dan's work for the past few weeks. I'm now a definate fan, and I've recommended his Do-Over stories to some straight friends who are interested in Alternate History.


There is one thing that puzzled me, both in the first Do-Over and the Redux. I understand that Davey does not wish to risk butterflying away the good stuff from the first two timelines, and therefore is careful about exactly what information he reveals. That's why he has restricted himself to geo-political analysis, military technology, and AIDS prevention, and has not revealed details of domestic politics or any other major events and developments. His patriotism also explains why he has restricted his help to the US government.


I'm not so clear on why the same patriotic spirit does not allow him to attempt to improve the industrial and econmic strength of the US. Presumably, after two life-times of experiencing 1981-2004, he has considerable knowledge that could be useful in this regard. Why isn't he writing reports telling all he knows of the Human Genome Project, HTML and packet switching, the importance of investment in modem technology and fibre-optic telecommunications? How about gene therapy, CFCs, fuel cells, LEDs, personal computing and micro-processing? Or compact discs, cloning, stem cells etc.


Of course in most of these areas he wouldn't know the details. He couldn't provide the blueprints. But he would know the general principles, and, crucially, he would know what works and what doesn't, what technology results in huge industries.


If he was able to use his knowledge to funnel investment into technology and infrastructure that he knows will result in pay-offs in the future, then why isn't he doing it? It could result in the internet taking off in the late 80s, cloning by the early 90s, for example. At the moment he only seems to be doing it for AIDS and military tech.

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**Spoilers for Ch 13 **


First - I'm glad that a new chapter has been posted. But I hate to say, this one chapter isn't a favorite. Not necessarily because of what happened, but how. I'm using the spoiler tag, so highlight the below section if you've read Ch 13 already.




Two parts in particular seem a bit forced and... dunno - just didn't seem to flow as they should. I'm almost wondering if part of it is because we all have been clammoring and wanting to see Brian, but Dan has so many items he wants to develop before then.


The two sections are letting Julie and Tammy in on the time travel secret, and how Davey deals with Chris. This latter one is the part that is most disturbing. He's treating his father as someone he can absolutely trust - whereas it would have been more natural to talk to his father about "someone" in the family who is being molested and see what the dad planned on doing before saying who the someone is. And Chris - I would have expected him to focus on how Davey knew, and deny it more. Though the phrase "the other guys"... is that other boys the neighbor is molesting or other people who are molesting Chris with the neighbor.




Don't get me wrong - I think a large part of my reaction is because I think ALL of Dan's work is great. In fact, just finally finished reading all of Phone Call/It's Never Easy and loved it. I'd avoided it as I'm not into the boy bands, but that was a mistake on my part. While definately a factor in the story, as usual with Dan's work, there is so much thought and developement that makes it a complete rich experience. If anyone else had been avoiding it due to the boy band aspect, don't :D


Heh - now I just need enough free time and a bright enough reading space to try to read Vampire Jarred :)

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I hope there is still the posting of a chapter on friday to as i really have to know what happens next. And as always great chapter. :2thumbs:


There'll be a chapter on Friday. 13 was the bonus chapter for the week. Seeing as to how we are getting 2 chapters this week, I think I'll do a combined review for both of them (and I hope Dan won't groan too much when he reads that last statement).

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love the stories, dan... all this talk of Dan being evil only leads me to believe that the meeting of Brian and Davey doesn't go very well. Has Brian already met somebody that he's falls for? Does he somehow blame davey for his uncle being locked up, depending on what davey tells him?


I hope it isn't so, but I'm anxiosly waiting to find out...



Edited by ahawk2722
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So, I've read through Chapters 13 and Chapter 14... and as promised here's a review. Due to the fact that I got 14 a few hours early, I'm not going to say much about it. I like the conversation that Davey had in the car with is father, but other than that, I didn't care for the "family politics" which has a huge touch of the religious and I'll stay away from the topic.


Chapter 13 isn't as bad on the surface and definately nowhere close to the chapter (was it 6 or 7) that I hated - in fact, I enjoyed the way Dan lays out the story and gives us little snippets of this and that.


Is Dan making Davey a superman? On the surface, he seems to be, what with making him the hero of the game against their toughest opponent and scoring the last goal in the last minute for the win. So he missed the shot before, but that is glossed over by the fact that he singlehandedly won the tournament. Well, at this rate, I'm sure Dan will have Davey singlehandedly win WW3 this time around.


I like the travelling over the pass paragraph or two, although, I have left a statement in Dan's blog that he should have included the extra infomation in that blog into the chapter, where he paints the scene even better.


And finally, April gets more than just a brief mention in passing... although she's still not very much fleshed out in this sequel. But then again, I guess that is deliberate. How many older brothers take that much notice of their younger sisters anyways? Still, one wonders why she hasn't gotten more than a paragraph or two in the sequel. She feels very much like a minor character in the story, even more so this time around than the first Do Over.


The interaction with Christopher could have been better written. It was a bit disjointed to read through, and I had to re-read the section a few times to ensure I understood what Dan was trying to say. It feels as though a few edits have occured there and some of the meaning have fallen through the cracks. I got the general picture, but at the end of the day it was a confusing one.



There was a comment that Chris' reaction is a bit unreal. I would disagree about that. I think Dan's portrayal of Chris is rather accurate for what Dan is building up for Chris, particularly in Chapter 14.



Oh and Dan used "thingie" in the story.


Dan have been dropping hints about being evil particularly in Chapter 15, and I think I've figured out what he's doing. Throw in the Dad poll in the forums and the fact that Brian shows up in Chapter 15 and I'd say 15 is going to be an interesting chapter. And since Dan is ahead, 15 might show up on Sunday! Joy oh joy.


All, in all, very heartfelt writing across the two chapters, but it's also two chapters with writing highs and lows. They don't stand out too much for me, since I know Dan can do so much better than this. Nevertheless, they are good reads, and I would suggest that everyone enjoy "the calm before the storm". Chapter 15 is going to be a swell ride!

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One of the best things about online writers is I get time inbetween chapters to analyze and reflect on what and where I think the story is going. I tend to read print at breakneak speeds, most recently Enders Game in less then 16 hours with 6 hours of sleep and a few hours of eating, and letting my eyes rest, damn little print.


So where do I think DOR is going at this point. I used to think he was going to kill off Daveys mom early in this one, sementing the relatinship between Davey and both his sister and his dad. I still have subtle fears of this happening, though at this point Dan can pull it off where as if it happend two or three chapters ago I wasen't sure.


But as of right now, I'd say Davey is going to meet Brian and it is going to happen at Brian's Uncle's bed side. Not a great place to meat your past/future love of your life. Brian will reject Davey, and Davey will get depresed, but somthing important will happen, ie presidental visit has been done almost to infinitum but somthing along thouse lines. Cool Dad moment is an option, but really I'd get suspicious of the preacher then. I'd go with a nice reintroduction of the doctor friend for $2.


Hehh I could and am almost always wrong as far as dkstories is the author, somthing that makes his stories all the better for me. But hey fun to fictionize I guess.


Psst nice work this Do Over stuff.

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Strangersagain.. be sure to read Ender's Shadow next. Don't bother reading the "sequels" to Ender's game.


I have the latest Ender's Shadow series book on my nightstand (Shadow of the Giant)



So close, yet so far. Dan has so many twists... He told me what was going to happen and I didn't see it.



We need to get Dan published... I'd be buying his books. :)

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We need to get Dan published... I'd be buying his books. :)


Not just saying it - I really mean it when I say I ABSOLUTELY agree. But then I've felt like that ever since reading his two part Harry Potter series and the original DO. How Dan created a year 6 and 7 that totally meshed, and made sense - that acknowledged GREY instead of just black and white. Then reading DO, and wondering from Ch 1 who the vaguely familiar lab assistant was, and then finding out 40 (or so) chapters later.


I almost feel cheap being able to read his (and Dom's) great fiction for free.


On a totally different note - I disagree about ignoring the sequels to Ender's game. While I though the Shadow series was great (including Shadow of the Giant), the 2nd (Speaker for the Dead) and 3rd (Xenocide) of the original series were also very good. Still can't get into Children of the Mind though.

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On a totally different note - I disagree about ignoring the sequels to Ender's game. While I though the Shadow series was great (including Shadow of the Giant), the 2nd (Speaker for the Dead) and 3rd (Xenocide) of the original series were also very good. Still can't get into Children of the Mind though.


They weren't bad. The obsessive compulsive stuff was a tad annoying (since I hate being reminded of some of my own tendencies :P ). The Shadow series was just much better. I did like Children of the Mind. It was a little slow to start, from what I recall. The ending had me happy and sad at the same time. OSC is good for that.

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Heya dkstories,


just a quick note. The 'Story Code' of 'Do Over redux' is wrong.

It says 'tt', but a 't' is defined as 13 till 17 years old. I just finished

'Do Over' and didn't read redux yet, but I assume that there will

be hardly sex scenes and if there will be, then it will be between

Davey and Brian, which are already at least 19. If that is correct,

then the code should be 'MM'.




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Hey Myr pm me some of your handy dandy Amazon Links for some Enders what have you and I'll see what I can do, if you have the time anyways. Or just post em if you like.


Almost had me a derail there, but there in no way to distract from your work Dan, hehh can't wait for the next chapter of anything.

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First off thanks to Dan and Myr for trying to put me in the loop. Yes, I got Chapters 14 and 15 earlier than most others and I got an insight to the large amount of work that has to be done before we get those chapters up on this site. I just want to give my thanks and appreciation to Myr and to E (who does all the editing) for all the hard work they've done.


I'm going to depart slightly from the review format for Chapter 15. I know I've been moving towards this for a while now, but for a change, I'm going to colour it with my insights more than usual instead of making this a proper review (which I've always tried to keep objective). So my apologies for that.


Also, this is a review, if you haven't read Chapter 15 yet, please read it first, as this review contains spoilers. You have been warned.


But before I do that though, let me get through two things from Chapter 14.


I couldn't mention it in the Chapter 14 review because it was early, but I really did like the conversation between Davey and his father in the car on the way back. That scene shows just how good a writer Dan is. Read the words carefully and you can see how each one of the characters have the unique speech patterns and how much emotions are conveyed with that conversation.


The other thing in Chapter 14 that I didn't very much care for was the huge scene with all the relatives and stuff. Sure it introduces everyone and gives us an insight as to how things work in that household, but do we really need that? I'm of course, still bitter over the fact that we aren't getting the story about how Davey and Brian built up their financial empire and the subsequent war with the Chinese and I thought that this entire scene in the chapter was really superfluous.


Boy was I wrong. Chapter 15 shows me how wrong I was as Dan used the characters and events in that scene to start off the chapter. I am beginning to like Nanny, eventhough Dan is now living with his paternal grandmother instead. Still her scenes were fun, particularly the crossaints and coffee scene. That was enjoyable.


The introduction by Grayson about AIDS was weird. I mean what purpose did it serve? It could have been done better, and perhaps a Question and Answer session with the good doctor after a brief introduction would have served that scene better... but that would have lenghten the chapter.


The scenes with Bryan... were written rather well, although I'm beginning to sense a little bit of Dom's influence on Dan's writing here. When I read through Dom's stories, it makes me want to yell at his characters for "not seeing the obvious". Dan seems almost to be doing the same here, so I wonder if it's deliberate or otherwise. The conversation with Uncle Rich was a bit disjointed for me as well, parts of which I had to go back and reread the preceding few lines just to ensure I understand the context of the conversation... and even after that, I couldn't understand why the conversation flowed the way it flowed in at least one part. I think that destroyed that scene for me. Sure it's minor, but as the saying goes - "One drop of ink... spoils the milk".


One other thing I'd like to point out that didn't make sense to me was the fact that Davey said that the guard who refused Brian entry to his uncle was "a new officer". I do wonder how Davey found that out though - there's no indication that he talked to the guard on the way into the room, nor was any explaination given to Davey in the story. The sentence "It was a new officer." I said with a shrug. would have been better coming from Dr. Grayson or someone from the hospital staff. However, it's a minor point and I'm nitpicking here.


The most powerful scene in the chapter though was the part where David Sr. stood in front of the crowd and preached. That scene had the hairs on the back of my arms and neck standing as I read it. It was just a very powerful sermon. One quick question though - who keeps a stone in their pockets? It's weird to read that some guy pulled out a stone from his pocket. Does that indicate that Pastor Jones had prepare the sermon beforehand? It would be interesting to see what sort of comments Dan has in his blog.


When the stone was mentioned though, I felt a pit in my stomach. And everything that happened after that happened in the sequence I had pictured it. Use stone for distraction, pull out gun, shoot someone. I was glad Dan didn't make Davey the hero this time by making him rush to the rescue to subdue the shooter. The resulting anger from Davey was also powerfully written and I like the entire scene here as well.


So what can I conclude?


1. Dan has taken the next step. He's now not writing for a print audience, but is instead gunning (pun intended) for the wide screen. The scenes didn't work too well in Chapter 13, worked better in 14 and was dramatic at the end of 15. I think he's experimenting a bit as well... be warned Dan, that what might look good on screen might actually be a bad idea in print.


2. Dan is evil... in a future chapter. Everyone was saying that this chapter was evil and I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. Sure, I have no idea where he's going in future chapters and more likely than not this Chapter sets the scene for the next few chapters. Any evilness, if any, is likely to be in a future chapter.


Ultimately... I feel that this is a good chapter, better than Chapter 13, and a whole lot better than the chapter that I hated (was that Chapter 6?) but not of of the best of the sequel, and definately not the best that Dan has done to date.



Points for discussion:


1. Will David Sr. die?


2. What impact will the shooting incident have on Davey?


3. How will Davey's and Brian's relation develop, given that they haven't spent as much time together during the formative/early teenage (or physically teenage) years as they did in the last timeline (Brian is less well developed, for example).

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Fasinating review... My only comment is that stone thing... I know a lot of people that carry around strange objects all the time. It stands to reason that if a preacher's favorite verse is about casting the stone, he might carry around a prop for just such grandstanding. (Southern Baptists like their fire and brimstone sermons...)


just a thought...

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At least we know that Brian and Davey do manage to get it together in this do over too. Shame we have to wait until chapter 29 to find out that:-


In 2007, scandal breaks out when pictures are printed on the Internet of President Jones in bed with Vice-President Breckenridge. Despite the sudden revelation, they achieve re-election after divorcing their wives, becoming the first President/Vice-President couple in history, as well as the first openly gay President and Vice-President.



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I...um...I try not to post in here...but I just want to make sure everyone understands that the reference to President Jones, (Sr. and Jr.) was in jest...it's not...for real.










Hey Dan,


It's Wednesday already in Samoa. I thought you were gonna post your next scintilating expose of the author's art of sleep deprivation for your ever-loving danaholics Tuesday. Or has Vic's outstanding response to your challenge, run things amok a bit?


He managed to slip a beauty in this time. (again!) Not bad for a confirmed domaholic!!



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