"Will you marry me?"

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi everyone,

 

Just something I was considering today and wanted to get your opinion on.

 

I'm heavily conflicted on this topic. On the one hand I despise tradition, gender roles, and expectations and about the last thing I want is a relationship in which one of us is the 'dominant one' and one of us is the 'passive one'. Thus, I'm pretty hard to please here!

 

For most things in a relationship I'm all about the equality and playing to people's strengths, and trading off on things both people enjoy or dislike. The way I've seen this issue handled before in online fiction for example is for the author to have both characters 'ask each other' at some point in turn. I suppose that could be nice for some people and I don't mean to make fun of it, but I personally would find that very unsatisfactory. To me the 'real' proposal is the first one and a subsequent one would just be symbolic or some sort of formality. Thus I would reject that option.

 

It would follow then that I would be in favour of the "there would be a proposal at all...we'd just discuss it" option, and indeed it's very practical. However, if there's ever a time for romance (and I consider myself a very romantic person in the first place), I think that time is a proposal to spend the rest of your life with someone. Thus, I would also reject this option out of hand because while it's very practical it's far to unromantic to suit my tastes.

 

In that way, having to 'pick' I would probably go with "I would prefer to propose", because I do see myself more in that role than the other. I would very much enjoy figuring out how I wanted to do it, and doing my best to make it really romantic and special for my guy. I suppose this is an extension of the fact that if I have to pick roles and can't take each in turn, as is preferable to me, I would prefer to be the protector/dominant/top/whatever than the other. However, in something as important as this I would probably still feel a bit like I had 'missed out' by not being the one who was on the receiving end of all that romantic effort and attention. But I do think I would miss it slightly more if I missed out on doing the asking.

 

Actually though, I'm making it sound much worse than it is! I'm sure I would be absolutely delighted and ecstatic to find myself in either position! I also assume that it would depend on a lot of circumstances and it would just come down to whatever felt the most natural and perhaps which ever one of us felt it was appropriate and decided to take the plunge first. Of course it would be absolutely delightful if we both magically decided at the same time and mutually made the preparations and what not, but come on! How realistic is that!?

 

Anyway, my answer is actually the 'cop out' answer of, "it would depend on the dynamics of the relationship", but I pretty thoroughly explained how I feel, so I don't mind picking it

 

Also, I know this question seems geared toward people who have not already entered into such a commitment, but actually it would be wonderful to hear from the people who have and what their thoughts on this were.

 

As one final side note, on the very VERY off chance that the person I fall in love with happens to be a woman I think I would have a very clear preference for her to ask me, because the only way I would be comfortable in a heterosexual relationship would be if it were a very untraditional, unorthodox one, and I think that would be the perfect way to set the tone for such a relationship. I certainly don't want to be the 'girl' all the time, but I equally wouldn't want to play if I had to be the 'boy' all the time.

 

So that's what I think, what do you think?

 

 

Take care all and have a great day

Kevin

[Krista]

I would rather be proposed to, but I won't rule out asking some man to marry me... lol.. I mean especially if the guy doesn't feel brave enough to propose. It wouldn't be romantic or anything, just a suggestion I would guess... I'm into traditional weddings and proposals, it's the southern belle in me I guess..

[Tiger]

It would depend on the dynamics of the relationship.

 

I chose this one because I really don't think of the tradition roles just as Kevin mentioned. I am most likely to want to be proposed to, but I would never rule out the proposal. I think I would need a high comfort level to do the proposing. It's most likely not to reach that point for several years. A life-time committment is huge, so I would definitely take it seriously. I believe we should prove ourselves superior to breeders when we do get married just to prove ourselves even though we shouldn't have to do so. The one thing I do know is that since the USA is full of homophobic bigots, I would get married in Canada. I would at least want it to be legal somewhere even if not in my own country.

[steph]

Personally, if I were to ask someone, I would want to make it a big surprise -- a totally romantic but also totally out of the blue type of thing. Unfortunately, I'm horrible at keeping surprises. I have no poker face. I'd come home with the ring or whatever, be bouncing up and down saying, "Look what I got! Come see! Come see!"

 

I guess it's a good thing I'm a girl and not expected to propose!

[Azure Dragon]

I voted for the fifth option, but I regret not picking the fourth. I personally dislike the concept of proposal because it's unfair to the proposee if they feel they're not ready; they'd have to find a way to gently let down the proposer but there's still gonna be some sting. I'd rather avoid the awkwardness on either end. Especially if it's something grandiose like taking him to NYC and popping the question on Times Square during TRL in front of Madonna (yes that really happened). I hope my boyfriend knows me well enough to not try to impress me with pomp and circumstance like that.

 

Instead, I think it'd make more sense that after we've been living together for awhile, we sit down and seriously talk about our future. If one of us isn't ready for marriage yet, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But if we both are, then woo-hoo. That might not sound very romantic, but the sex afterwards would more than make up for it. At the very least, we can figure out what kind of wedding bands we want and get the sizes right (I hate yellow gold and my ring finger is too small for one normal size and too big for the next).

[JamesSavik]

Heh heh heh... Stepford Fags: always trying to be accepted where it will never happen for all the wrong reasons.

 

OK Romeo and Romeo: you are married. Do you have any benefits as partners? Probably not unless you are a 100K+ a year corperate weasel. Any legal protections from discrimination in the workplace? How about housing? How about the new supervisor that hates faggots? How about the new KKKristian landlord?

 

REALITY: the two of you are a bigger targets than ever to the haters. You might as well wear a t-shirt that says kick me.

[AFriendlyFace]

Heh heh heh... Stepford Fags: always trying to be accepted where it will never happen for all the wrong reasons.

LOL, thank you Brian Kenney, but let us not forget that Brian proposed to Justin in the end

 

OK Romeo and Romeo: you are married. Do you have any benefits as partners? Probably not unless you are a 100K+ a year corperate weasel. Any legal protections from discrimination in the workplace? How about housing? How about the new supervisor that hates faggots? How about the new KKKristian landlord?

Those are certainly pragmatic concerns; however, I hope not to get married for pragmatic concerns. They're nice, and should be taken into consideration, but I do believe it's better to marry for love. Pragmatically I'd be just fine on my own so I wouldn't bother.

 

As for the workplace/housing discrimination, personally speaking I wouldn't work or live anywhere where that could be a major issue. I live in a fairly progressive, liberal area and frankly I have no intention of ever living in a less liberal, progressive area. Indeed the likelihood is that at some point I'll move to an even more liberal and progressive area.

 

I know how to fight for my basic, and most important rights and freedoms, and as I said based on the choices I've made I shouldn't have to fight too hard for them in the first place. As for the subtler things...well they don't bother me. I don't particularly care what other people, especially homophobic people, think, and unless they're already important in my life I seldom even notice.

 

So perhaps I would be surrounded by people who thought my marriage was joke, but it wouldn't matter much because I would expect this to occur in such a place where they would more or less have to tolerate it anyway, and I wouldn't be getting married to make anyone else but myself and my spouse happy in the first place.

 

And anyway, on the most basic level, at least we'd be in it all together

 

 

-Kevin

Edited April 24, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Tiger]

Heh heh heh... Stepford Fags: always trying to be accepted where it will never happen for all the wrong reasons.

 

OK Romeo and Romeo: you are married. Do you have any benefits as partners? Probably not unless you are a 100K+ a year corperate weasel. Any legal protections from discrimination in the workplace? How about housing? How about the new supervisor that hates faggots? How about the new KKKristian landlord?

 

REALITY: the two of you are a bigger targets than ever to the haters. You might as well wear a t-shirt that says kick me.

I can see why you might be cynical, but just as racial minorities fought for equality in the 60's, we have to now. Yes, the KKKristian bigots are a truly evil and powerful foe, but we can't just sit back and do nothing while they keep denying us of our rights. There comes a time when we have to be louder, meaner, and just that much more ruthless to get whatever we want. One thing I have thought should be done in my area is a Pride Parade in Topeka, Kansas. For those who don't know, that is where Fred Phelps and his ilk reside. There was a time when people of two different races were disallowed to marry. James, I think a lot of your problem is location. I worry about you, Jamie, and Rick simply because of the state you live in. It has to be worse than the state I live in, and that's saying a lot. :wacko:

[S.L. Lewis]

I prefer to be asked. In most of my relationships I was the one to do all the asking. it gets tiresome after a while.

[Azure Dragon]

Heh heh heh... Stepford Fags: always trying to be accepted where it will never happen for all the wrong reasons.

 

OK Romeo and Romeo: you are married. Do you have any benefits as partners? Probably not unless you are a 100K+ a year corperate weasel. Any legal protections from discrimination in the workplace? How about housing? How about the new supervisor that hates faggots? How about the new KKKristian landlord?

 

REALITY: the two of you are a bigger targets than ever to the haters. You might as well wear a t-shirt that says kick me.

 

Dude, your baggage is showing. This is not 1932 and we have fewer and fewer reasons to hide who we are (one of the reasons why I don't date closet cases). You want to talk about REALITY? I'll show you a slice of REALITY by addressing your questions and you can accept or reject it.

 

1. There are places where gay people can be legally married or at least civil unioned, and I plan on relocating to one of them (most likely Canada, since I've been to Toronto twice and it's a beautiful city). That alone means any workplace that gives benefits to married couples would automatically include those of the same sex. But no matter where you live, any google search can pull up a list of companies and institutions that have benefits for unmarried/same-sex partners.

 

2. Discrimination in employment and housing? That's what the ACLU is for. But I myself have never felt the need to contact them. I'm openly gay on my current job and my previous one as well. They never had a problem or if they did, they keep it to themselves and don't let it hinder our work, which is all I can ask for. As for housing, my ex-boyfriend and I have jointly rented an apartment in the EAST SIDE OF CLEVELAND--hardly a gay Mecca--and when the lady filing our paperwork asked what our relationship was, we flat-out told her we were boyfriends. They didn't give a damn as long as the rent was paid.

 

3. I've been out for four years, and before that I was a social outcast for most of my life. There's not a thing anybody can do or say to me that would be new. But as an adult, I simply remove myself from people who don't accept me as I am. And if I can't remove myself, like with a co-worker, I'll confront him and say he'd better respect me before I report his ass. If I were to marry my current boyfriend, I don't see how we'd be bigger targets than we already are since he lives with me and visits me on my job every now and then.

 

4. My primary reason to get married would be for the benefits which is why I want move someplace where that's legally possible, but even if I'm stuck in Ohio, the emotional commitment is just as valid if I truly decide I want to be with someone for the rest of my life. And I would die before I let anybody's ignorance and hate come between me and the man I love. Yes there are challenges. Life is full of challenges, so quit bitching and deal with them. Otherwise, maybe you're not marrying material in the first place.

 

PS: Watch Hairspray. You might learn something.

[scoopny]

Heh heh heh... Stepford Fags: always trying to be accepted where it will never happen for all the wrong reasons.

 

OK Romeo and Romeo: you are married. Do you have any benefits as partners? Probably not unless you are a 100K+ a year corperate weasel. Any legal protections from discrimination in the workplace? How about housing? How about the new supervisor that hates faggots? How about the new KKKristian landlord?

 

REALITY: the two of you are a bigger targets than ever to the haters. You might as well wear a t-shirt that says kick me.

 

They can try and kick me, but they best be aware, I WILL KICK BACK. Trust.

 

2. Discrimination in employment and housing? That's what the ACLU is for. But I myself have never felt the need to contact them. I'm openly gay on my current job and my previous one as well. They never had a problem or if they did, they keep it to themselves and don't let it hinder our work, which is all I can ask for. As for housing, my ex-boyfriend and I have jointly rented an apartment in the EAST SIDE OF CLEVELAND--hardly a gay Mecca--and when the lady filing our paperwork asked what our relationship was, we flat-out told her we were boyfriends. They didn't give a damn as long as the rent was paid.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the ACLU is not the only organization that fights for gay, lesbian, transgender rights. There's also Lambda Legal where I worked last summer, which is actually the largest gay and lesbian legal organization in the country. They successfully litigated the case Lawrence v. Texas, which overturned sodomy laws nationwide, won the case that resulted in civil unions in New Jersey and lost the boy scout case. Their most recent win was getting a trial court in Iowa to say that banning gay marriage violates the state constitution (that's still pending on appeal). They also do a lot of work on issues relating to bullying in schools (FYI anyone in any state who is being bullied because of their sexual orientation, there's federal law that protects you, that protects anyone from bullying for any reason, so just rememeber that if anyone is being harassed in school.) , transgender rights and HIV discrimination. Their sister organization, GLAD (Gay and Lesbian Defender) won the marriage case in Massachussetts and the civil unions case in Vermont. Both the ACLU and Lambda are parties to the lawsuit challenging marriage laws in California. There's also the National Gay and Lesbian Taskforce and of course the Human Rights Campaign which is more of a lobbying organization than a civil rights group, they work to change legislation at the federal level mostly in Washington. That's really just the tip of the iceberg, there are many, many brave organizations at the state level doing great work. All those national organizations have hotlines where they can refer you to local organizations that can help.

 

3. I've been out for four years, and before that I was a social outcast for most of my life. There's not a thing anybody can do or say to me that would be new. But as an adult, I simply remove myself from people who don't accept me as I am. And if I can't remove myself, like with a co-worker, I'll confront him and say he'd better respect me before I report his ass. If I were to marry my current boyfriend, I don't see how we'd be bigger targets than we already are since he lives with me and visits me on my job every now and then.

 

4. My primary reason to get married would be for the benefits which is why I want move someplace where that's legally possible, but even if I'm stuck in Ohio, the emotional commitment is just as valid if I truly decide I want to be with someone for the rest of my life. And I would die before I let anybody's ignorance and hate come between me and the man I love. Yes there are challenges. Life is full of challenges, so quit bitching and deal with them. Otherwise, maybe you're not marrying material in the first place.

 

PS: Watch Hairspray. You might learn something.

 

Amen. I think of what my grandfather went through growing up in the deep south in the 1920s, getting kicked out of school at the age of 10, moving to New York City on his own at the age of 16, working in demeaning jobs all his life. He was mad, he was angry, but he was never bitter. If you had saw him back in the day, you would have thought he was a millionaire the way he dressed. But he lived in the PJs. He is my example. I've faced nothing as hellish as he did, but he still managed to leave this place a better world than he found it. That's my goal too. Leave better for the ones who come behind me. I might have had some bad days, but I know it'll only get better.

 

 

Sorry that was waay off topic, but suffice to say, i'd ask, but I'd make sure we had decided we wanted to spend our lives together before I asked. One thing they teach us in school, never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

Edited April 24, 2008 by scoopny

[Tiger]

...Sorry that was waay off topic, but suffice to say, i'd ask, but I'd make sure we had decided we wanted to spend our lives together before I asked. One thing they teach us in school, never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

First of all, I will address what I went ahead and deleted... I agree that we're much better off than we were even 20 years ago. The fact that our issues have become important issues says a lot about where the discourse is going in this country. We cannot just give up and let our enemies win.

 

As for knowing the answer, I agree. I would never ask that question unless I already knew the answer. That's great advice! Thanks for sharing.

[JamesSavik]

Dude, your baggage is showing. This is not 1932 and we have fewer and fewer reasons to hide who we are (one of the reasons why I don't date closet cases). You want to talk about REALITY? I'll show you a slice of REALITY by addressing your questions and you can accept or reject it.

 

1. There are places where gay people can be legally married or at least civil unioned, and I plan on relocating to one of them (most likely Canada, since I've been to Toronto twice and it's a beautiful city). That alone means any workplace that gives benefits to married couples would automatically include those of the same sex. But no matter where you live, any google search can pull up a list of companies and institutions that have benefits for unmarried/same-sex partners.

 

REJECT. If a person has rights, why does he have to move where those rights are sanctioned? Maybe you live in Fairyland but some of us don't and we pay a price for being gay in blood, sweat and tears.

 

2. Discrimination in employment and housing? That's what the ACLU is for. But I myself have never felt the need to contact them. I'm openly gay on my current job and my previous one as well. They never had a problem or if they did, they keep it to themselves and don't let it hinder our work, which is all I can ask for. As for housing, my ex-boyfriend and I have jointly rented an apartment in the EAST SIDE OF CLEVELAND--hardly a gay Mecca--and when the lady filing our paperwork asked what our relationship was, we flat-out told her we were boyfriends. They didn't give a damn as long as the rent was paid.

 

Sorry- gays aren't a recgonized minority. You can be fired with no recourse in most states. Housing can be a problem. Don't assume that these problems don't exist simply because they are outside of your limited experience.

 

3. I've been out for four years, and before that I was a social outcast for most of my life. There's not a thing anybody can do or say to me that would be new. But as an adult, I simply remove myself from people who don't accept me as I am. And if I can't remove myself, like with a co-worker, I'll confront him and say he'd better respect me before I report his ass. If I were to marry my current boyfriend, I don't see how we'd be bigger targets than we already are since he lives with me and visits me on my job every now and then.

 

I've been out, not by choice, since I was 13 in a rural Mississippi town. Social outcast my ass. They tried to kill me.

 

4. My primary reason to get married would be for the benefits which is why I want move someplace where that's legally possible, but even if I'm stuck in Ohio, the emotional commitment is just as valid if I truly decide I want to be with someone for the rest of my life. And I would die before I let anybody's ignorance and hate come between me and the man I love. Yes there are challenges. Life is full of challenges, so quit bitching and deal with them. Otherwise, maybe you're not marrying material in the first place.

 

Don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes. BTW- never speak to me again. You don't know me at all and from your bullshit I don't want to know you.

 

Hairspray my ass.

[scoopny]

REJECT. If a person has rights, why does he have to move where those rights are sanctioned? Maybe you live in Fairyland but some of us don't and we pay a price for being gay in blood, sweat and tears.

 

 

 

Sorry- gays aren't a recgonized minority. You can be fired with no recourse in most states. Housing can be a problem. Don't assume that these problems don't exist simply because they are outside of your limited experience.

 

 

 

I've been out, not by choice, since I was 13 in a rural Mississippi town. Social outcast my ass. They tried to kill me.

 

Of course these problems exist. And I agree in a perfect world you wouldn't have to leave. But sometimes, people do. My dear friend Hamp was nearly killed several times in Mississippi growing up and well, he left. I respect your choice to stay, but not everyone does, even in Mississippi. The reason my grandfather, and millions like him, left the South for the North wasn't for the better weather. Should people stay and fight? Sure. But plenty of people make other choices. And those choices aren't wrong, just as much as your choice to stay isn't wrong.

 

Where Azure Dragon lives, much like Michigan, there is no protection against housing and job discrimination for gays and both states have strict anti-gay marriage amendments. I could take a job here and they could fire me for being gay and I'd have no recourse, most cities in Ohio are the same way. If I lived in a city outside of Ann Arbor, I could get denied an apartment for being gay. The Mid-west ain't no idyll. The anti-gay marriage amendment in Michigan is more restrictive than the one in Mississippi. The state appellate court ruled that the University of Michigan couldnt' even provide health insurance to gay and lesbian couples. I live not 10 miles from where they regularly host Klan rallies. Timothy McViegh's co-conspirator Terry Nichols also lived nearby. If you want to see racism and hatred at work just come on to Michigan.

[AFriendlyFace]

Guys, I think this has slowly escalated into something far too heated and several of the exchanges are getting personal rather than objective. We're all entitled to our opinions and we're all entitled to offer whatever justification we feel appropriate, but let's be careful to avoid attaching value judgments to those opinions and justifications which might seem to marginalize or insult another person or their opinions.

 

This is largely my fault and I apologize for starting us down this road with not only the topic - which I should have seen had the potential to get controversial if not handled carefully - but also with my subsequent post. I didn't mean for this topic to be a discussion of the merits and liabilities to gay marriage at all, only of preference for proposals if both people are the 'marrying' type and want to do it. However, it was obviously very foolish and short-sighted of me not to realize that the issue of marriage itself would play a major role in the discussion.

 

For the more controversial topic of gay marriage please take the discussion to the Soap Box, or if you guys prefer we can move this thread there and continue in a civil fashion.

 

I appreciate and recognize everyone's good intentions and the degree of maturity and restraint everyone has shown, but we are starting to tread into dangerous territory. Once again I apologize for the large role I personally played in this, and also this is just a friendly warning to everyone posting in this thread to keep things polite, respectful, and non-personal to other members.

 

-Kevin

Gay Authors Moderator

Edited April 24, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Azure Dragon]

I already sent James a pm because I didn't want to derail the thread further, basically apologizing for my confrontational tone and explaining in peaceful terms how I came to feel the way I do. He probably deleted it. Whatever, I made amends the best way I could and if he wants to hold a grudge against me, I frankly don't give a damn. Someone doesn't like me, what else is new? I think we can all get back on with our scheduled program.

[corvus]

So back to the topic on hand...

 

Hmm, honestly I don't know. I've never thought about marrying anyone. To me, it's analogous to saying "I love you." There's a lot of baggage contained in that, and unless it comes as a natural outcome of a present feeling, it'd feel very odd and stilted. I probably just have a limited imagination, haha. On the other hand, I can imagine both saying it and it being said to me. Maybe I'm just trying to say that it's a very foreign concept.

[Menzoberranzen]

I have nothing but disdain for the entire institution of marriage. I doubt I will ever be married, just as I doubt I will ever find someone I wish to spend my entire life with.

[NaperVic]

I doubt I will ever be married, just as I doubt I will ever find someone I wish to spend my entire life with.

 

So wait Menzo, if Domluka proposed to you, you'd decline?

 

 

Opps, on 2nd thought, not a good example. After you'd fall in love with him and get used to having him around, he'd dissappear for 10 months... or more :wacko: .

 

Take Care,

 

Vic

 

P.S. - I voted that I wanted to be proposed to

[Procyon]

I voted 'discuss the issue', as I've never really considered the idea of a romantic proposal a possibility. Even though the idea of marriage isn't alien to me, a romantic proposal is something you see in American films (just like the words 'I love you' as corvus mentioned). I think a discussion like that could be romantic enough, or even a lot more romantic, than a 'staged' proposal by one party.

[rknapp]

First, I doubt that I would ever have a relationship that would go that far. I've yet to have a first boyfriend and there is none on the horizon, which is fine since I'd rather it be this way until I get my degrees.

 

Anyway, after thinking about it I decided that the best and most likely scenario is that we'd sit down and talk about it. No proposals at all -- just a simple, "Hey, I've been thinking about us and where we're headed, I think we should do such and such, what do you think?" or something like that.

[Krista]

In my State and pretty much everywhere in the south.. Women want to be married with a child on their hip before the people they graduated with (some even get started well before graduation) so really I went along with that sort of idea towards marriage. Proof in having two quick relationships turn into two bad engagements, and two breaking off engagements. My four closest female friends are married and three of them have their first child and the fourth is pregnant already. So, they fell right into the idea. I know I have some bouts of jealousy when I see them as a young family. Seeming more adult to me.

 

Anyway, so after the two failed engagements I still have kept my thoughts on a traditional wedding, and I dare not propose to a man unless I absolutely love him and he has yet to pop the question.. lol.. as I am impatient too. But, the idea that I don't have time to waste to find and marry a man I have left far behind which has actually taken a lot of pressures away from me. As far as marriage goes too, I don't see it as something I could easily do anymore. It would take an exceptional guy to convince me that a marriage is a good idea. David probably isn't that guy either.

[AFriendlyFace]

I have nothing but disdain for the entire institution of marriage. I doubt I will ever be married,

Well marriage as an institution may very well warrant your disdain.

 

I never really meant marriage in the absolute, most literal sense. I can envision someone simply saying, "I want to spend to the rest of my life with you" and the two people making a permanent commitment as a result of that, no 'marriage' needed. I more or less just used the traditional terms because they're the easiest to understand and relate to.

 

I would be fine proposing to a guy who responded that he didn't want to get 'married', but agreed that we should have some sort of permanent commitment and expectations of each other. I think that could be just as awesome, romantic, and meaningful. Similarly, if I were being 'proposed' to, I'd be just as happy if it more or less translated into a request to be life partners, who are completely monogamous and in it for the long-haul.

 

just as I doubt I will ever find someone I wish to spend my entire life with.

 

Well of course if that's how you feel than the 'institution of marriage' is irrelevant anyway.

 

Actually I rather doubt I'll find someone I wish to spend the rest of my life with either. I'm pretty picky, I don't need marriage (or a permanent relationship), and I'm all around unlikely to compromise. I also know I'm not the easiest person in the world to live with. So pragmatically I think there's a very good chance I won't find a 'husband' or permanent partner either, but I do remain open to the possibility, and if it happened on the terms I want, or if I were sufficiently in love that I was willing to alter those terms, then I can imagine it being quite nice.

 

I voted 'discuss the issue', as I've never really considered the idea of a romantic proposal a possibility. Even though the idea of marriage isn't alien to me, a romantic proposal is something you see in American films (just like the words 'I love you' as corvus mentioned). I think a discussion like that could be romantic enough, or even a lot more romantic, than a 'staged' proposal by one party.

I agree that such a discussion would hold the possibility for an intensity of emotions and intimacy that would be extremely nice. I suppose I would also expect this conversation to take place anyway, after the 'proposal'. But I've probably just bought into the fairytale/romantic movie concept.

 

I know I have some bouts of jealousy when I see them as a young family. Seeming more adult to me.

I actually often have the opposite reaction. I'm grateful for my freedom and independence and the perception that I still lead a more youthful, carefree life.

 

The only exception to that would be with children, intellectually I know that I'm still not ready for kids, but emotionally I really really want them NOW.

 

 

Take care all and have a great day

Kevin

[Jack Frost]

Too late.

 

For your information, I did the proposing.

 

It was done at Lake Nuangola, Pennsylvania...where Ben and Steph, my story's characters, live.

[ashessnow]

Well, Ive been proposed to. Twice. I dont know whats in the water in New York but bartenders and cabdrivers really like me.

And while Ive never been a fan of the idea/institution of marraige, after discussing it first with my partner Id rather be proposed to. Dunno. Personal preference I suppose.