"Will you marry me?"

[AFriendlyFace]

Too late.

 

For your information, I did the proposing.

Awww

 

Well, Ive been proposed to. Twice. I dont know whats in the water in New York but bartenders and cabdrivers really like me.

LOL, were these serious proposals?

[Jack Frost]

I feel lame, but I actually forgot what I said to him.

 

We were on a two-day trip to Pennsylvania. I know we were on the boardwalk crossing the swamping side of the lake and we reached to the bridge over a creek going into the swamp from the lake.

 

It was a dark, clear, starry, summer night. Crickets and birds were chirping.

 

Then I said something about being under the starry sky and babbahbah. I forgot what I told him.

 

Good thing I wrote down what I told him and kept it in a wooden box under lock and key. But it's at my hubby's house for storage over the summer.

 

I guess you can say we kinda eloped too. We married asap after I proposed it back in August 2005. The marriage was kinda a secret.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Jack Frost

[Tiger]

That sounds so romantic. I do not remember for sure what I said, but if someone proposes to me like that (and I am already open to the idea) I would gleefully accept.

[AFriendlyFace]

I feel lame, but I actually forgot what I said to him.

 

We were on a two-day trip to Pennsylvania. I know we were on the boardwalk crossing the swamping side of the lake and we reached to the bridge over a creek going into the swamp from the lake.

 

It was a dark, clear, starry, summer night. Crickets and birds were chirping.

 

Then I said something about being under the starry sky and babbahbah. I forgot what I told him.

 

Good thing I wrote down what I told him and kept it in a wooden box under lock and key. But it's at my hubby's house for storage over the summer.

 

I guess you can say we kinda eloped too. We married asap after I proposed it back in August 2005. The marriage was kinda a secret.

Awww that does sound really romantic

 

That sounds so romantic. I do not remember for sure what I said, but if someone proposes to me like that (and I am already open to the idea) I would gleefully accept.

Well that brings up an interesting question then: would the proposal really matter very much if you were already open to the idea and in love with the person?

 

I mean what if it were really lame and he mumbled or freaked out or something and finally just ended up shoving a ring into you hand and saying "marry me" or something. Or what if he were completely unromantic and didn't even try very hard? In general does the proposal itself matter?

 

On the one hand I want and expect the proposal to be romantic and meaningful (whether I'm proposing or being proposed to), but on the other hand I'd hate to think the proposal itself would actually sway my (or his) decision either way. I would want the proposal to be all romantic, starry eyed, violin music, hand holding, gentle kiss thing, but I would want the actual decision to be very intellectual, practical, and pragmatic.

 

I think the proposal would only really matter insofar as it would matter to me, so if my boyfriend were proposing I would expect him to do his best to make it romantic and special for me - even if he didn't care about such things. The fact that he might avoid bothering to make the effort would perhaps be symptomatic of a more general incompatibility. If he simply tried, but got nervous and messed it up somehow, then I wouldn't care at all and he would still get an "A for effort". However, unless his fumbled proposal were particularly endearing I'd probably still prefer to have the proper, romantic one.

 

Anyway, I guess the point of this pondering is, "Would the proposal itself effect your decision to marry someone" and/or "Should your proposal effect their decision? Would you want it to?"

[GaryK]

If it got to the point that you wanted to marry (or otherwise enter into permanent commitment with) your significant other, would you rather ask or be asked?

I didn't vote because there wasn't an answer that felt right to me.

 

If you're in a serious relationship that's meant to be permanent why is there any need to formalize it? There's either the expectation that it's permanent or there's not. My partner and I never discussed the permanency of our relationship. It was just assumed we'd be together forever. As I've mentioned before we'd still be together had he not been killed back in 1992.

 

Is gay marriage simply a way to gain the same rights married heterosexual partners enjoy under the law? Or is it just an attempt to boost one's self-esteem by claiming we're just as good as heterosexual partners because we can get married like they can? Why would we want to be part of an institution (marriage) where the failure rate is so high?

[Drewbie]

If I was proposed to, For me, wouldn't have to be volin, but a little thought out, if he screws up wouldn't matter to me. Im not the best speaker in the world, so I would take my time.

 

But mostly It wouldn't affect my decision.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Drewbie

[faust]

I really don't care about all of the preparations and other stuff. I would appreciate it greatly but It would not affect my decision either way. I would say yes if I know we both loved each other and still feel like i was th luckiest guy alive

[scoopny]

I didn't vote because there wasn't an answer that felt right to me.

 

If you're in a serious relationship that's meant to be permanent why is there any need to formalize it? There's either the expectation that it's permanent or there's not. My partner and I never discussed the permanency of our relationship. It was just assumed we'd be together forever. As I've mentioned before we'd still be together had he not been killed back in 1992.

 

Is gay marriage simply a way to gain the same rights married heterosexual partners enjoy under the law? Or is it just an attempt to boost one's self-esteem by claiming we're just as good as heterosexual partners because we can get married like they can? Why would we want to be part of an institution (marriage) where the failure rate is so high?

 

Short answer is yes to both. Why do we want the law to judge us inferior? No one is forced to get married, but for sure the law should not say "you cannot get married no matter how much you want to." That is using the law to designate you, even if you never get married, as inferior to heterosexuals and that's wrong. For example a ban on interracial marriage did not deny the right of marriage to anyone. It only kicked in if you decided to marry someone of a different race. Why was that law wrong? Because the law marked black people as inferior to white people. Gay people can currently get married, but only if it is to someone of a different gender. Same principle.

 

Second, marriage protects couples, especially non-wealthy couples who don't have the resources to make legal arrangements that mimic marriage, to keep the assets (both social and economic) that come with being a couple. From the ability to visit your partner at the hospital and make legal decisions concerning their health when they are no longer able to, to transfering your assets when one partner dies or ensure the law doesn't try to take away your children should one partner die. And marriage, when it works, also helps ensure that assets are divided equitably in a divorce. When marriage isn't recognized crazy things happen, especially when couples break up. For example, one case I know of, a lesbian couple married in Mass., get divorced. One partner moves to Virginia with the child and then gets the Virginia court not to recognize the other partner as the parent of the child. That would not happen if gay marriage would legalized everywhere. So marriage is necessary especially because people often break up and divorce laws ensure those breakups proceed in way that recognizes the rights of both parties.

[Jack Frost]

And in my case, plus the security I could be in marriage (hospital rights, inhertance rights, etc.), it'll make immigration to Canada much simpler because now I could have a Canadian citizen sponsoring me without the government taking his income into consideration. All I have to do is prove that my relationship is real and pay the $1250 worth of fees. I still haven't officially immigrated because of that cost.

[AFriendlyFace]

Is gay marriage simply a way to gain the same rights married heterosexual partners enjoy under the law? Or is it just an attempt to boost one's self-esteem by claiming we're just as good as heterosexual partners because we can get married like they can? Why would we want to be part of an institution (marriage) where the failure rate is so high?

 

 

Short answer is yes to both....

...

 

...So marriage is necessary especially because people often break up and divorce laws ensure those breakups proceed in way that recognizes the rights of both parties.

I pretty much agree with everything Scoopny said, but let me also examine this question from a slightly different perspective.

 

In most cases marriage is simply better for the relationship. Of course it's not essential, and of course for some couples it might actually make the relationship more difficult, but generally and overall it's better for the relationship.

 

There's a very tangible and public commitment once you're 'married' (or I would also say have had a 'commitment ceremony' or 'domestic partnership' or anything like that). You've been presenting yourself to people as a married (committed/registered/whatever) couple. When you introduce someone casually as "your boyfriend" there is not the automatic assumption of permanence from the perspective of the new person. Similarly even 'partner' probably doesn't convey the same sense of permanence as 'husband' does.

 

So, for the sake of argument let's assume that two couples are equally personally committed to each other within their relationship, but one of them has formalized the arrangement and the other hasn't. All else being equal the added social pressure and outside expectation of permanence (not to mention any legal bonds, but as I said I'm not approaching it from that angle) will likely add something, however small or great depending on the couple and situation, to the couple's motivation to work through problems and stay together. On a very basic level I'd rather have to explain to people, "I broke up with my boyfriend" than "I divorced my husband."

 

Of course this added pressure and commitment can be stressful, and it can also make it harder to leave a relationship that really does need leaving, but that's why it's important to be sure before you enter into such an arrangement. Even then of course, sometimes things just change or don't work out.

 

The other angle I would take is that apart from the social legitimation of the relationship which has external influence, there's also an internal legitimation that happens for the couple. If they do consider themselves extremely serious and permanent yet still are not recognized as such that can cause serious emotional stress and over time may even make them feel - however unconsciously - that their relationship really is somehow inferior, or at least less serious, than their heterosexual counterparts. As such a formalization of the relationship can go a long way to protecting the couple from some of this stress and, yes, boost their 'self esteem' about the relationship.

 

 

Anyway, marriage isn't for everyone, and I in no way mean to imply that that's the way anyone else should conduct their relationship. I just think that for many couples it has benefits, independent of legal rights, for the relationship itself.

 

Whatever works for people is what they should go with

 

 

Take care all,

Kevin

Edited May 10, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[ashessnow]

LOL, were these serious proposals?

Kinda. I mean they both said, "No, I'm serious" so yeah. But they were both really nice and they completely understood when I turned them down.