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[methodwriter85]

Not to sidetrack again, but here is a interesting video that chronicles Center City's rise from the hell-hole it was in the early 90s to being one of the most populated and vibrant downtowns in America today.

 

 

     Thanks. That was a good one. I've lived just an hour south of Philadelphia for most of my life, but I didn't actually step foot there until maybe 2003 or so, so I missed out on seeing gritty 90's Center City. I do remember when the National Constitution Center was just opened, and the streets seemed pretty vibrandt and cool. I also remember seeing Moliere's School For Wives at a theater on Walnut Street in 2007, which seems to be Philly's regional theater district. Also, I used to go with my swing dance club to hit up UPenn's fish frys...although that's University City, not Center City. That campus is GORGEOUS.

 

       It'll be interesting to see if Center City will finally be able to do something about the Gallery at Market East. I first went there in 2003, and even then it was pretty much a dump, although I did like the bourbon chicken at the chinese place in the food court. It seems insane that a place that centrally located, in an area that's becoming rich, is still so low-rent and downmarket. They're apparently going to renovate what used to be the K-Mart, and a New York City retail store called Century 21 is going to move in. I think Century 21 is supposed to be similiar to H&M?

 

    In any event, it's pretty cool to see how well Center City is doing, and that it's the third most populous downtown in the United States.

Edited May 23, 2014 by methodwriter85

[TetRefine]

     Thanks. That was a good one. I've lived just an hour south of Philadelphia for most of my life, but I didn't actually step foot there until maybe 2003 or so, so I missed out on seeing gritty 90's Center City. I do remember when the National Constitution Center was just opened, and the streets seemed pretty vibrandt and cool. I also remember seeing Moliere's School For Wives at a theater on Walnut Street in 2007, which seems to be Philly's regional theater district. Also, I used to go with my swing dance club to hit up UPenn's fish frys...although that's University City, not Center City. That campus is GORGEOUS.

 

       It'll be interesting to see if Center City will finally be able to do something about the Gallery at Market East. I first went there in 2003, and even then it was pretty much a dump, although I did like the bourbon chicken at the chinese place in the food court. It seems insane that a place that centrally located, in an area that's becoming rich, is still so low-rent and downmarket. They're apparently going to renovate what used to be the K-Mart, and a New York City retail store called Century 21 is going to move in. I think Century 21 is supposed to be similiar to H&M?

 

    In any event, it's pretty cool to see how well Center City is doing, and that it's the third most populous downtown in the United States.

 

My favorite quote from that video is former Philadelphia mayor and ex-Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell saying, "If I had predicted that in less then 20 years they'd be selling condominiums in downtown Philadelphia for 12 million dollars, they would have had little men in white coats come take me away." That to me sums up the transformation that this city has gone through since the bottoming out of the early 90s.

[methodwriter85]

   It's still got a long, long way to go, though. The city needs more white-collar, high-paying jobs, and it needs a desperate overhaul of the school system if it wants to maintain being a growth city and not slip back once all those hipsters decide they want to start families.

 

    I think they estimated that within the next 15 or so years, Philadelphia will fall out of the Top 20 of most populated cities, because while it's holding up way better than it used to, it's nothing like Phoenix, San Antonio, Austin, San Diego, etc etc....I think Phoenix has already overtaken Philly. Of course, Phoenix for damn sure doesn't have a cool skyline like Philly does.

 

     Although  I think the best Pennsylvania city skyline has to be Pittsburgh. Hands down. Western Pennsylvania may be a bizarre time travel trip back to the 1970's, but it sure is beautiful.

Edited May 24, 2014 by methodwriter85

[TetRefine]

   It's still got a long, long way to go, though. The city needs more white-collar, high-paying jobs, and it needs a desperate overhaul of the school system if it wants to maintain being a growth city and not slip back once all those hipsters decide they want to start families.

 

    I think they estimated that within the next 15 or so years, Philadelphia will fall out of the Top 20 of most populated cities, because while it's holding up way better than it used to, it's nothing like Phoenix, San Antonio, Austin, San Diego, etc etc....I think Phoenix has already overtaken Philly. Of course, Phoenix for damn sure doesn't have a cool skyline like Philly does.

 

     Although  I think the best Pennsylvania city skyline has to be Pittsburgh. Hands down. Western Pennsylvania may be a bizarre time travel trip back to the 1970's, but it sure is beautiful.

 

Here's the thing. Philly is growing slowly by comparison, which is more sustainable when you compare it to the explosive growth many southern cities are feeling. They can keep up better with the demand because plenty of housing stock and public resources already exist to serve the growing population, but just needs updating. Remember, Philadelphia was originally meant to handle 2M people and it can easily do so again in the future. You are right about the school systems, but as gentrification takes over and the scum of the city gets pushed out and higher quality people move in, that problem will eventually fix itself too. 

 

As far as Philadelphia's population comparing to those cities you mentioned, they aren't even real cities to begin with. Phoenix is nothing more then a massively overgrown suburb that swallows up everything in its path. Its almost 600 square miles compared to Philly's 135, and nowhere does that place even look like a city. Philadelphia can't annex surrounding areas like western cities because it's already an established city. There are very few real cities outside the Northeast (Chicago, SanFran, maybe LA) but thats about it. Most western cities are nothing more then a few tall buildings and then sprawling suburban homes. So I say let them overtake us in population, but they'll never be a true city.

Edited May 24, 2014 by TetRefine

[methodwriter85]

   You know, I heard someone say that Phoenix currently resembles 1980's Los Angeles, which is why they filmed this 80's nostalgia film called "Take Me Home Tonight" there, which was set in 1988 Los Angeles. Tim, as someone who was an adolescent in 1980's Los Angeles, can you deny or confirm the similiarities?

 

    Austin and San Diego seem like pretty cool places, though. Although San Jose...seems like a pretty boring-looking place and it's basically what you said- a few skyscrapers and a bunch of suburbs.

 

   I think the one thing Philly really has going for it is getting all those hipsters that were pushed out of living in New York City. I hate Comcast but I'm glad they're there- Comcast Tower II is going to be a big game changer, especially if they can get more tech companies to locate here.

 

 

    Anyway...for a "2002 pop culture moment"....does anyone else remember the Mountain Dew Guy in those commercials from 2002? Holy shit, he was hot. I wonder what happened to him? I think he was an Abercrombie model or something.

 

   In all seriousness, I thought Channing Tatum did a good job of representing that shaved head, urban styled white guy, as opposed to jocky boy next door type. I think that's why he stood out to me back then. Kinda thuggy enough to be the bad boy, but not TOO thuggy. It's crazy to think that 12 years later, Channing Tatum's probably one of the biggest male box office stars in Hollywood right now. He just kinda quietly plugged away for ten years, slowly taking his dues, and then just exploded in 2012 with The Vow, Magic Mike, and 21 Jump Street. I never would have predicted 5 years ago that he'd become an A-list movie star.

Edited May 25, 2014 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

A mistake that many easterners make is thinking that 1) western cities WANT to be like eastern cities and 2) that high rises make a place a "real" city.

 

 

Who wants to live in 600 sq ft apartment that costs $2 million when for $180k in PHX you can have an 1,800 sq ft, 3 bed/2 bath house?

[methodwriter85]

   Well, to be fair, Los Angeles IS embarking on a high-rise building boom, just like most cities that are not D.C. It probably sees some benefits of Manhattanization.

 

*Manhattanization is a term for cities that started to build denser, higher buildings, changing the apperance of the city in a significant way. It was perjorative term used by critics of the 1960's and 1970's highrises that were built in San Francisco.

 

 

Who wants to live in 600 sq ft apartment that costs $2 million when for $180k in PHX you can have an 1,800 sq ft, 3 bed/2 bath house?

 

 

     Yeah, but you're playing to live in San Francisco or New York City. That's the trade-off.

 

     I would totally be down for Austin, though. They're a cool city that still has afforable real estate.

 

     There is a trend towards living in the city as opposed to living in the suburbs. Not that suburbs are about to die off, but Millennials seems to prefer a nightlife and walkability as opposed to suburban living. That's probably why it seems like Los Angeles is doing what they can to revive their downtown and lure that 25-36 year old age group with shiny new high-rise condos.
  

      I do have friends that are doing the "house in the suburbs and 2.5 kids" deal, but probably not as many as it was for Sharon and Mark's Baby Boomer generation, back when you were expected to start families by age 25. And of course, suburban living was built on the idea of cheap gasoline, and these days...you do a leap of joy if you find that the gas is at $3.25 a galloon as opposed to $3.75 or so.

 

 

Remember, Philadelphia was originally meant to handle 2M people and it can easily do so again in the future. You are right about the school systems, but as gentrification takes over and the scum of the city gets pushed out and higher quality people move in, that problem will eventually fix itself too.

 

      Damn, you think that Philly might actually get 2 million people again? I can't see that happening. I think that Philly might eventually be able to stabilize at a 1.6 population, possibly even get back up to 1,700,000. Right now it's about 1,553,000. The 2013 growth slowed a bit from 2011 and 2012, but at least it's not a decline. I do think Philly's better off than Pittsburgh, which is actually pretty nice but people are still leaving that area in droves.

 

       You're way more optimistic than I am, but I like it. Philadelphia needs people to stay invested in it. Too bad we can't get more optimism for Wilmington. LOL.

Edited May 25, 2014 by methodwriter85

[TetRefine]

Who wants to live in 600 sq ft apartment that costs $2 million when for $180k in PHX you can have an 1,800 sq ft, 3 bed/2 bath house?

 

Here I think lies an interesting generational gap on where people desire to live. My grandpa was a born and raised Brooklyn-ite (BedSty to be exact). His family had been in New York City since the 1860s. When he came back from his stint in the Marine Corp in 1953, everything had started to change for the worse. His once white, working class Brooklyn neighborhood was being taken over by poor blacks who were turning it into a ghetto. He packed up and moved to Long Island where he raised his family and remained till he died. My mom, growing up in 60s, 70s, and early 80s New York always thought of the city as the hellhole it was during that time and was turned off completely from urban living. I came of age when cities came out of their slump and began to thrive, and I can only associate New York with being big, bustling, and attractive, not a crime ridden ghetto. We just don't have that fear of black people and cities that people older then us do. 

 

I would far prefer a 600 square foot, very expensive apartment in the heart, of say, Manhattan, over some generic house in the "city" of Phoenix any day. I grew up in the suburbs with a decent size house, a big yard, little league, and all that other stuff, yet it isn't that great. Everybody is the same, everybody is close-minded, and there is absolutely nothing to do. I'd much rather suffer from a higher COL and get all the benefits of a big city rather then settle in some suburban city like out west or just a suburb. Just me though.

[TetRefine]

      Damn, you think that Philly might actually get 2 million people again? I can't see that happening. I think that Philly might eventually be able to stabilize at a 1.6 population, possibly even get back up to 1,700,000. Right now it's about 1,553,000. The 2013 growth slowed a bit from 2011 and 2012, but at least it's not a decline. I do think Philly's better off than Pittsburgh, which is actually pretty nice but people are still leaving that area in droves.

 

       You're way more optimistic than I am, but I like it. Philadelphia needs people to stay invested in it. Too bad we can't get more optimism for Wilmington. LOL.

 

No I don't think it'll hit 2M people again, at least any time soon. I bet it'll even out at around 1.65-1.7M in 20 years or so. I think thats a good estimate, and I think the people moving in will be wealthier and far less trashy then what populates a lot of the city right now. 

 

And there is nothing going for Wilmington. There isn't even anything for it to build on, and I bet it'll continue to be just an oversized ghetto for the foreseeable future. 

[methodwriter85]

I gotta agree with you on the first bit, Tet. I mean, don't get me wrong- I have friends who totally want the surbuban life ideal. But a lot of people I know really want the urban lifestyle- lots of friends are moving into Philly, Baltimore, or other big cities, and more and more people are putting off having kids and the like. Hell, even Matt K even backed up the idea that more people are wanting to live in Downtown L.A., and Los Angeles is moving towards a more dense, urban-like development as opposed to its historic suburban development pattern:

 

 

LA is not pro low density. Downtown LA is the hottest, fastest growing area in So Cal. They are converting more and more old buildings to loft space, building new high rises and mixed use including the very tony Ritz Carlton Residences.

 

Santa Monica has gotten very dense as has Irvine and Newport Center. Younger people are deciding condo/apartment living is pretty nice; no yard work, resort like amenities and built in social network.

 

    I'm guessing Matt K is from the Los Angeles area like Private Tim is...sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

 

 

No I don't think it'll hit 2M people again, at least any time soon. I bet it'll even out at around 1.65-1.7M in 20 years or so. I think thats a good estimate, and I think the people moving in will be wealthier and far less trashy then what populates a lot of the city right now. 

 

And there is nothing going for Wilmington. There isn't even anything for it to build on, and I bet it'll continue to be just an oversized ghetto for the foreseeable future.

 

    Yeah, I can see that for Philly. I really hope Comcast Tower II does a lot for the city and brings more tech jobs here.

 

     As for Wilmington, yeah. Gentrification is never going to happen here unless they get a handle on the violent crime. We have Trolley Square and that's about it for hot inner-city neighborhoods. It's gotten better but it's never going to become a happening town barring some miracle.

 

    It's at least better than Chester.

Edited May 27, 2014 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

Here I think lies an interesting generational gap on where people desire to live. My grandpa was a

I would far prefer a 600 square foot, very expensive apartment in the heart, of say, Manhattan, over some generic house in the "city" of Phoenix any day. I grew up in the suburbs with a decent size house, a big yard, little league, and all that other stuff, yet it isn't that great. Everybody is the same, everybody is close-minded, and there is absolutely nothing to do. I'd much rather suffer from a higher COL and get all the benefits of a big city rather then settle in some suburban city like out west or just a suburb. Just me though.

Well that's because phoenix and Arizona in General sucks.

 

When I was stationed at Ft Bliss there was only four paintball fields in Phoenix and Tucson so I generally black out that entire state as backwards and generally unlivable.

[methodwriter85]

   Isn't Arizona basically the dumping ground for people that can't afford California, like how Delaware has become the dumping ground for people who can't afford New Jersey's crippling property taxes?

 

    Anyway, Matt, I thought you'd like this:

 

Drexel Works to Build Up Philadelphia

 

    I think Drexel is a good example of the aggressive expansion that a lot of universities have been embarking on since the late 1990's, when Generation Y started hitting college age. From what I understand, now that the wave of Gen Y hitting colleges is subsiding, colleges are going to make up the difference by aggressively recruit foreign students, particularly the Chinese. It's pretty amazing to see how much Drexel expanded and continues to expand.

 

    I thought we got a "slice" of the impending college boom period in a sense, by having J.P. set up ambitious plans for Claremont's college. I picture C.I.T. as being a small college, about 3,000 to 4,000 students, mostly commuters (maybe 1k living on campus in about 5 dorms) and nearly everyone being in-state. It'd be cool to see if they pull off plans to turn it into something bigger or better, or if they fail. Wesley College, this small private liberal arts school in Slower Lower Delaware that I attended back in the mid-2000's, had some real big expansion plans, but the economic crash put all that to a halt, for the most part. It's just now starting to expand again. On the other hand, the building boom at University of Delaware seems never-ending. I'm shocked every time I drive past the campus.

 

    Here's an interesting 2008 article I read once about the aggressive expansion plans of once-commuter schools to turn themselves into residential universities. Temple University is listed as an example- by 2008, they had doubled the on-campus/near-campus population from 5k in 2002 to 10k just six years later. Pretty impressive.

 

    Of course, the downside is that college tuition shot way up, but eh. Not like it'd matter to any of these characters. LOL.

[Mark Arbour]

   Isn't Arizona basically the dumping ground for people that can't afford California, like how Delaware has become the dumping ground for people who can't afford New Jersey's crippling property taxes?

 

   

 

Arizona is a pretty complex place.  It's always struck me as a very independent/free spirit kind of place, but that doesn't apply universally.  There are the snowbirds and other retired people, and there are a lot of NRA members.  Those two blocks of people keep Arizona pretty conservative, and handily in the "Red State" category.

[PrivateTim]

   Isn't Arizona basically the dumping ground for people that can't afford California, like how Delaware has become the dumping ground for people who can't afford New Jersey's crippling property taxes?

 

    I thought we got a "slice" of the impending college boom period in a sense, by having J.P. set up ambitious plans for Claremont's college. I picture C.I.T. as being a small college, about 3,000 to 4,000 students, mostly commuters (maybe 1k living on campus in about 5 dorms) and nearly everyone being in-state.

 

 

AZ is where Californians go to remember what freedom tastes like......

 

I was thinking that CIT was going to be closer to WYOTech than Cal Tech.

[methodwriter85]

   I think it's a little better than a trade school like Wyotech, but nothing near Cal Tech. (There was actually a Wyotech near IUP.) I think Mark said he based the school on something in Ohio. I figured it has to be a school with a couple of thousand of students that offers 4-year degrees- but it's mainly a blue-collar, commuter feel to it. If Claremont had a big-time university with lots of affluent students it probably wouldn't have fallen on hard times. Newark, Delaware was saved from becoming a rustbelt town because of its exploding student population in the 1990's, which started off a construction boom that lasts today. (It's population growth has leveled, but they're in the process of trying to replace all those 1960's-1970's buildings.)

Edited June 4, 2014 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

AZ is where Californians go to remember what freedom tastes like......

 

I was thinking that CIT was going to be closer to WYOTech than Cal Tech.

If freedom you mean hot, dirty, polluted, corrupt, inept and the people around you are as charming and as likeable as Tim then yes, I agree.

[PrivateTim]

If freedom you mean hot, dirty, polluted, corrupt, inept and the people around you are as charming and as likeable as Tim then yes, I agree.

 

I think that is just a very MEAN (but accurate) way to describe Sacramento!

Edited June 8, 2014 by PrivateTim

[mmike1969]

I think that is just a very MEAN (but accurate) way to describe Sacramento!

Or I am sure we are talking about where you live.

[methodwriter85]

   I always figured Private Tim for an Orange County Republican type. Note his indignation to the post where I linked to an article where Josh Schwartz talked about the O.C.'s 10th Anniversary.

Edited June 9, 2014 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

   I always figured Private Tim for an Orange County Republican type. Note his indignation to the post where I linked to an article where Josh Schwartz talked about the O.C.'s 10th Anniversary.

 

The indignation was at all script writers like Josh Schwartz who try to write about things they nothing about; i.e. athletics, fraternity & sorority houses; coaches, cops, etc.

 

I don't know if Josh Schwartz had even actually been in Orange County when he wrote The O.C. It was written from a typical Los Angeles County viewpoint of what Orange County was like.

 

Having lived in several different counties in So Cal growing up I got to see what they were really like vs how they were presented.

[methodwriter85]

I'm just always really impressed whenever a writer gets an area right. I thought Silver Linings Playbook did a generally good job of showing what Philadelphia is like, although no one did an authentic Philly accent, even Bradley Cooper who is from the area. The Office also did a pretty good job with it- touches like Herr's Potato chips and Yuengling beer.

 

Toni Collette is noted for having done an authentic Philly accent in The Sixth Sense. For some reason people think you can use New York accents to stand in for Philly.

 

Anyway, in honor of The Fault in Our Stars grossing 48 million and toppling Tom Cruise's Edge of Tomorrow this past weekend, check out this early 2002 tearjerker movie, A Walk to Remember.

 

 

It was okay, but man, I REALLY can't wait until The Notebook comes out in 2004. Ryan Gosling was a wet dream boyfriend in that movie.(Although really, they couldn't have even tried to match him with a better old counterpart than James Garner?)

 

I'm disappointed that Mandy Moore's acting career never really took off. I always thought she could have been a pretty good romantic comedy princess if she had chosen better movies. She was fantastic as the bible-thumpin' bitch in Saved!

 

By the way, seriously, check out The Fault in Our Stars. It was fantastic and cathartic. Here's a clip from it:

 

 

"It would be a privilege to have my heart broken by you." God, where were 18-year old guys like Augustus Waters when I was that age?

[methodwriter85]

   Alright, so here's another 2002 commercial with Kate Beckinsale and Orlando Bloom shilling for the GAP:

 

 

   I think this commercial does a good job of showing what jeans generally looked like in the time period- low hiphuggers on women, slightly baggy on guys, and darker blue washes on both. Also, denim skirts had made a comeback.

 

    If I'm mistaken, correct me, but these jeans were the bootleg cut, right? Uber-popular. I tried bootcut jeans but I can't wear them because my thighs are too muscular and big.

 

    I feel like I sound like a crotchety old dude when I bitch about how much I hate the skinny jean look on guys. LOL.

 

    Anyway...I can't believe there hasn't been an Orlando Bloom reference yet. He was pretty hot in '02 because of the Lord of the Rings. I cannot tell you the amount of times I heard girls signing over Legolas. I never got into him because I liked big muscular types like Nick Lachey or tall lanky dudes like Eric Balfour rather than the short twink look, but I'm sure one or two of the CAP characters would've dug his look.

  

     Orlando Bloom has also been the subject of a LOT of gay rumors. If his moment of fame had begun in 2000 instead of 2001-2002, we so should've seen him at Hollywood orgy party in CAP, LOL.

[B1ue]

    I feel like I sound like a crotchety old dude when I bitch about how much I hate the skinny jean look on guys. LOL.

That's just crazy talk.

 

I was actually fairly surprised by how comfortable skinny jeans actually are. They *look* like you can hardly move or breath in them, but the ones I have are cut well and fit fine. I tend to wear them now when traveling, because denim travels well and they are thin enough that they pack pretty tight. Plus, it drives my family bonkers when I wear them, so that's always a plus.

[methodwriter85]

    See, on a short, skinny guy like yourself, it's a good look. What I hate is when tall guys with big muscular legs try to fit into them. It's not a good look on them.

 

     The funny thing is that the skinny jean look had its roots in emo culture. Back around the early/mid-2000's, emo guys would wear girl jeans as part of their whole "I'm being cool and different" deal. Then at some point, skinny jeans replaced the girl-jeans.

[TetRefine]

    See, on a short, skinny guy like yourself, it's a good look. What I hate is when tall guys with big muscular legs try to fit into them. It's not a good look on them.

 

Ain't that the truth. My legs are huge, especially my thighs. I once tried on a pair of skinny jeans (a couple sizes bigger then what I wear for regular jeans) and practically busted the seams of the denim. I'll stick to slim-straight fit for now on. Guys with smaller legs, count yourself lucky because you fit into any kind of pant so much easier then those who don't, lol.