[Sasha Distan] Ladies' Man - American Songbook Track 9

[Kitt]

I can't see Clem not meaning it when he says something as strong as "I hate you."

[Irritable1]

By the way, Gary, I believe it wouldn't be inconsistent for Nate to be jealous of a girl and yet rape Clem.  I've read that between men and women it's one means of asserting control over a partner.

 

Very depressing chapter, but well-written, Sasha. Nicely done.

[Headstall]

 

 

So, general question for the forum... how committed do we think Clem is to his decision? and is he strong enough to give Nathan what for in the future?

Is it wrong for me, after what a horrible person that Nathan has been, and the really terrible things he has done...to still hold out a tiny bit of hope that he will, through losing Clem, finally see the light and fight the good fight to try to get  him back? I know it won't happen...But I would love to see Clem rip him to shreds emotionally...and have that force Nathan to rebuild himself the right way...I can't help it...I'm sappy as shit...and the guy loves horses....And yes, I think Clem is strong enough to not accept any kind of crap from Nathan in the future...a line was crossed...

 

 

 

EDIT: Nathan punched Clem...twice...that really is unforgivable...

Edited December 10, 2014 by Headstall

[Headstall]

OMG...this story has messed me up...Rape and physical abuse is too much for me to handle...

 

 

 

EDIT: Powerful job on a powerful chapter, Sasha

Edited December 10, 2014 by Headstall

[Irritable1]

 

 

Is it wrong for me, after what a horrible person that Nathan has been, and the really terrible things he has done...to still hold out a tiny bit of hope that he will, through losing Clem, finally see the light and fight the good fight to try to get  him back? I know it won't happen...But I would love to see Clem rip him to shreds emotionally...and have that force Nathan to rebuild himself the right way...I can't help it...I'm sappy as shit...and the guy loves horses....And yes, I think Clem is strong enough to not accept any kind of crap from Nathan in the future...a line was crossed...

 

It's an interesting question. What is Nate, mid-20s? It's young to write someone off forever. 

 

The problem is that so much fiction is full of lame excuses and forgiveness for rape that readers bristle furiously at the idea. I don't know.  I mean, Clem is young too. Lots of fish in the sea. Why should he put more of his time into rehabbing Nate, especially when he's been completely unable to make an impact so far? It's a job for an expert, and Clem's not even clear about who he is as a gay man, really.

 

Nah, Gary. Come on. You wouldn't want your only experience to have been Nate, surely, in good times or bad? I know I wouldn't.

 

Edit: I do absolutely believe that people can come back from terrible places, where they've threatened harm or done harm. I've witnessed it from the sidelines. So I'd never say it was impossible or anything, but I'd also not ask for it as part of a fictional romance, you know?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Irritable1

[Headstall]

It's an interesting question. What is Nate, mid-20s? It's young to write someone off forever. 

 

The problem is that so much fiction is full of lame excuses and forgiveness for rape that readers bristle furiously at the idea. I don't know.  I mean, Clem is young too. Lots of fish in the sea. Why should he put more of his time into rehabbing Nate, especially when he's been completely unable to make an impact so far? It's a job for an expert, and Clem's not even clear about who he is as a gay man, really.

 

Nah, Gary. Come on. You wouldn't want your only experience to have been Nate, surely, in good times or bad? I know I wouldn't.

Out of likes..I agree and it is just a story...I hold on to this sometimes unrealistic idea of soulmates and the fact is...that is just too idealistic...Nathan is a creep and deserves to lose Clem and worse...this chapter was a slap in the face for me...One I probably needed....There were guys for Clem before Nathan...and there is, I am sure, someone waiting out there for him....someone that will appreciate what he has to offer...

[Irritable1]

Out of likes..I agree and it is just a story...I hold on to this sometimes unrealistic idea of soulmates and the fact is...that is just too idealistic...Nathan is a creep and deserves to lose Clem and worse...this chapter was a slap in the face for me...One I probably needed....There were guys for Clem before Nathan...and there is, I am sure, someone waiting out there for him....someone that will appreciate what he has to offer...

 

I was right there with you. Oh well... 

 

 

So, general question for the forum... how committed do we think Clem is to his decision? and is he strong enough to give Nathan what for in the future?

 

He sounds frightened, and however committed he is, it may be difficult to resist if he's ashamed, especially in public. I hope he hits back hard if he's grabbed, anyway. At least he won't be taken by surprise.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Irritable1

[impunity]

I really don't want this going the route of chronic, cyclic domestic violence. Hopefully Nate continues down the path of being an utter bastard so Clem has no incentive to take him back.

[Sasha Distan]

I really don't want this going the route of chronic, cyclic domestic violence. 

Regardless of anything else, I promise that this is not the case.

 

 

It's an interesting question. What is Nate, mid-20s? It's young to write someone off forever. 

 

The problem is that so much fiction is full of lame excuses and forgiveness for rape that readers bristle furiously at the idea. I don't know.  I mean, Clem is young too. Lots of fish in the sea. Why should he put more of his time into rehabbing Nate, especially when he's been completely unable to make an impact so far? It's a job for an expert, and Clem's not even clear about who he is as a gay man, really.

 

Nah, Gary. Come on. You wouldn't want your only experience to have been Nate, surely, in good times or bad? I know I wouldn't.

 

Edit: I do absolutely believe that people can come back from terrible places, where they've threatened harm or done harm. I've witnessed it from the sidelines. So I'd never say it was impossible or anything, but I'd also not ask for it as part of a fictional romance, you know?

The boys are 25, and I agree that it would be very young to write someone off forever. I also pretty much agree with everything else you said. People can come back from horrible things, but I also don't think it's Clem's job to do that.

 

 

and the guy loves horses....

I know what you mean hun. Too bad a love of horses does not always equal a decent human being, eh?

[Sasha Distan]

How much will you love me if I give y'all an extra happy chapter tomorrow?

[impunity]

An extra chapter would make me very happy.

[Timothy M.]

How much will you love me if I give y'all an extra happy chapter tomorrow?

 

Lots and lots                   

need any more encouragement ??

[Sasha Distan]

Lots and lots                   

need any more encouragement ??

 

You could dance?

[Kitt]

He did dance - look at the second little yellow guy!

[Kitt]

about the only one he didn't use was 

[Timothy M.]

He did dance - look at the second little yellow guy!

 

that's what I thought it was too...

 

You could dance?

 

*searches the emoticon list for dancing emos*

 

   

 

better ?  (by the way, that's the first time I've done pole dancing )

 

Thanks, Kitt

 

       

Edited December 13, 2014 by Timothy M.

[LitLover]

An extra happy chapter would be awesome Sasha!! I'm on my phone, so unfortunately no dancing emoticons here

 

On the subject of Clem, I think he is strong enough to walk away. His self esteem may be battered but he's not broken.

 

As or Nate (after the whole drawing and quartering I've already petitioned for) I hope that losing Clem will give him the kick in the butt that he needs to change some of his homophobic hostility. I think he can eventually redeem himself as a human being....without Clem.

[Ron]

I don't know. I'm thinking a very sweet talkin', apologizing Nate just might get another chance. He wouldn't be the first person who found that it works for them. But it's unlikely that he'll stop being who he is so it's equally unlikely to last long. *shrugs*

[impunity]

 

*searches the emoticon list for dancing emos*

 

 

better ? (by the way, that's the first time I've done pole dancing )

 

Thanks, Kitt

 

You're awfully cute when you do that!

[Headstall]

You're awfully cute when you do that!

Tim is cute, whatever he does

[Sasha Distan]

An extra happy chapter would be awesome Sasha!! I'm on my phone, so unfortunately no dancing emoticons here

 

On the subject of Clem, I think he is strong enough to walk away. His self esteem may be battered but he's not broken.

 

As or Nate (after the whole drawing and quartering I've already petitioned for) I hope that losing Clem will give him the kick in the butt that he needs to change some of his homophobic hostility. I think he can eventually redeem himself as a human being....without Clem.

 

re Nate: I think you're right. But I think that it might take a while.

[Timothy M.]

I did the thank-you dance in my review, but I can repeat it here if you like ?

 

Such a great chapter, now we all feel a lot better about Clem after the sadness and anger over the rape chapter.

Thank you so much for not letting us wait.

[Headstall]

I did the thank-you dance in my review, but I can repeat it here if you like ?

 

Such a great chapter, now we all feel a lot better about Clem after the sadness and anger over the rape chapter.

Thank you so much for not letting us wait.

I get why you think this and to be honest, I feel almost guilty about my review. I am happy for Clem....but something doesn't feel right to me and I can't pretend otherwise. I am not even sure what my problem is...maybe it's just a time factor...or the shock of a character like Nathan...I am sure Sasha will get me there...

[Timothy M.]

I get why you think this and to be honest, I feel almost guilty about my review.

 

*rushes over to read your review*

...

*comes back*

 

Maybe you should go back and read the first chapter again. Clem was always attracted to softer guys, nothing to do with Nathan. He was just too loyal to his first boyfriend to articulate what was wrong.

I think the main sadness is that Clem lost Nathan as a friend because they had sex and because Nate is a bigot. However, it's not just Nate's fault, Clem should have called him on his nasty slurs right from the beginning. If your peers don't object to your behavior, people like Nate thinks they are right and continue being fucked up.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Timothy M.

[Timothy M.]

Oh, and a completely different matter:

 

Am I the only one wondering if Ash saw and touched Clem in the gay bar, and that's why he dares to flirt with him in the shop?

Maybe even followed Clem into the shop?

Edited December 14, 2014 by Timothy M.