' Live-Poets Society ' – A Corner For Poetry

[Mikiesboy]

 

Haiku 3

 

Death took the rabbit

As the snow began to fall,

A white burial.

 

 

Personally, I think this doesn't need a warning. But does the mentioning of death warrant a warning in the chapter notes?

 

I despair for the world, I really do.  I'm not up on the rules all that much.. you could check I guess.. but it's just a rabbit.. are we that sensitive now?

[Drew Espinosa]

I despair for the world, I really do.  I'm not up on the rules all that much.. you could check I guess.. but it's just a rabbit.. are we that sensitive now?

Thanks Tim Honestly, I think we're pretty tough on here, but I just wanted to be sure

[Drew Espinosa]

Okay, I reread the first line, and I don't like it. I find it somewhat awkward with the rest of the haiku.

 

After some rearranging, will this flow better?

 

Snow begins to fall

As the rabbit goes to sleep,

A white burial.

 

I mean, I hope the theme of death is still obvious.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Drew Espinosa

[Mikiesboy]

Okay, I reread the first line, and I don't like it. I find it somewhat awkward with the rest of the haiku.

 

After some rearranging, will this flow better?

 

Snow begins to fall

As the rabbit goes to sleep,

A white burial.

 

I mean, I hope the theme of death is still obvious.

I think it's inferred, with the white burial. 

[AC Benus]

Hello, breathing poets!

Thanks for pointing me here, AC, and thank you for the marketing work (and to Sir Peter). ;D

I look forward to scathing critique and other helpful comments.

 

Parker, you nailed those lyrics and the math poem. Nothing left to do other than slowclap respectfully.

 

Now my two belated cents on the haiku/tanka topic: It may actually be a little harder to construct a flowing poem with as few as five to seven mores in a language that is not designed to flow through words and particles like Japanese is. Instead of listing separate words to express "out of the bottle" the Japanese would have one word, "bin-no-naka-de" (or something) written as a single word, and that's how they speak, too. So I think it probably adds an extra challenge to making up a haiku in English, German, ... because we have to squeeze all these irritating small extra words in that have hardly any meaning.

 

I have to go check out the prompts now. *cracks knuckles*

This should be fun.

This thread as well. He he he.

Thanks for joining in the fun, my dear doctore

[AC Benus]

Okay, I reread the first line, and I don't like it. I find it somewhat awkward with the rest of the haiku.

 

After some rearranging, will this flow better?

 

Snow begins to fall

As the rabbit goes to sleep,

A white burial.

 

I mean, I hope the theme of death is still obvious.

Drew, in my personal opinion, your first version is much stronger. Although perhaps it's a rich area for discussion as to whether or not Basho intended a kind of childlike innuendo to creep into his poetry, here I think you need to look death straight in the eye.

 

You wrote:

 

Death took the rabbit

As the snow began to fall,

A white burial.

 

and I would only suggest a minor tweak so the last line is not left lingering all alone in 'Haiku-speak-land.' How about not using 'fall,' but a verb to talk about the burial? Thus: 'Death took the rabbit / As the snow began to build / A white burial.

 

Think about it; there are quite a few verbs you could use instead of 'fall.'       

[Drew Espinosa]

 

Drew, in my personal opinion, your first version is much stronger. Although perhaps it's a rich area for discussion as to whether or not Basho intended a kind of childlike innuendo to creep into his poetry, here I think you need to look death straight in the eye.

 

You wrote:

 

Death took the rabbit

As the snow began to fall,

A white burial.

 

and I would only suggest a minor tweak so the last line is not left lingering all alone in 'Haiku-speak-land.' How about not using 'fall,' but a verb to talk about the burial? Thus: 'Death took the rabbit / As the snow began to build / A white burial.

 

Think about it; there are quite a few verbs you could use instead of 'fall.'       

 

Thanks AC! I really like that, it flows really well!

[Mikiesboy]

I like what Dr. O and AC said about looking death in the eye. I think we need to write what we feel and not worry about what the audience may or may not get upset over. Frankly, I don't read to feel like safe and protected, I lock the doors for that. I read because I want to be challenged and entertained. I want to experience what the characters do.. good or horrible, sad or joyous. I think we need to get our brave on!

[Aditus]

I like what Dr. O and AC said about looking death in the eye. I think we need to write what we feel and not worry about what the audience may or may not get upset over. Frankly, I don't read to feel like safe and protected, I lock the doors for that. I read because I want to be challenged and entertained. I want to experience what the characters do.. good or horrible, sad or joyous. I think we need to get our brave on!

We can look death in the eye as long as we want, but there are people/readers out there who can't for  many reasons. I wouldn't want to send someone in depressions because one of the main characters of a story suddenly dies. The same with poetry. We can write about death, dying, fighting with a fatal illness, but we should tell up front or at least choose a telling title .JMHO

[Puppilull]

I think the first version of the poem is to the point and AC's tweak added to it. Going in for the kill (sorry...) and being more honest works better for me. Good job!

 

As for death... It's to me more like a Vanitas painting. Since it's an animal dying I don't feel warnings are required. A child dying...? That's another thing. Still, poetry is emotion and reading it you should expect other themes than wind through trees or sunsets. It's seldom graphic or long enough to trigger.

[Aditus]

Yeah well, O Captain! My Captain! gets to me every time and there are days I wouldn't read it, although it's one of my favorite poems. As for a child dying... I can understand that a writer needs to work through his/her grief by writing a poem, but reading some of Ella Wheeler Wilcox poems e.g. is hard. There have to be those poems too, they are mirroring a part of life after all. I agree with you, there can't be always sunsets and roses. But for me a few words are often enough to trigger.

[dughlas]

Once again I am late to the party however, my first thought was that your first writing was by far better. There is nothing gratuitous, it was not written without thought. I fear we as a society have become far too PC, while we need to respect one another in all things and avoid being cruel there are difficult subjects we should be able to discuss frankly and honestly. All that just to say I like your first version best Drew and AC's suggested tweak smooths the transition.

 

Oh, and when my "likes" restore I'll be back, meanwhile

Edited January 9, 2016 by dughlas

[Doctor Oger]

As for the haiku, specifically: No matter the theme, topic or word choice; it would be a wee bit silly to write a warning that's bound to be almost longer than the poem itself.

 

Poetry warnings in general: I am opposed to them.

- Poems are highly condensed and possibly multilayered in meaning. There are many clever ones that can be read to mean different things. It would be a form of guidance if not a mild form of censorship to warn of anything in the poem because it would lead the reader into a certain direction of how to interpret the text.

- Poems must be analysed to some extent to be understood and appreciated. To warn the reader of a certain topic would basically be a spoiler, because it takes away part of the work and forestalls (part of) the discovery.

- I find it patronising. Reading "Warning, there's death in this" before I get to the text itself would irritate me as a reader just as much as "Warning: This is hot" on a papercup of coffee. Of course there are people with traumas for whom it's harder or almost impossible to deal with this or that, whom hearing a backfiring car or a certain smell or a certain topic sends into an extremely unpleasant mental state. But that is something we can and should be considerate of when we are dealing with those people directly/in person, and if we know of these things and they want us to be considerate. It's not something we should let impede us in anything we make public/do publically. Because we don't know what the triggers for any one person are and what they trigger. Because it would be a patronising guardian act that denies the readers their responsibility for themselves. And because it may take away from the reading (and analysing) experience.

And this is the point, the internet is a public space, every community/forum like GA is a public space, so I will never expect anything I hear, read or see, or anyone I talk to in this ether (publically) to tiptoe around or avoid any expression or topic that might, maybe, possibly, eventually, potentially, peradventure make me uncomfortable. If something does, then it does. I'm taking that risk when I move around public space, and especially the internet, all the time.

 

Warnings make sense in texts that don't suffer from a possible forestalling, where it's not a matter of analysis to understand what's in it or what it's about.

I would also agree to a warning if a subject matter, an expression or something else is used that is controversial, but then I would still keep it vague and just warn of controversy and not say what it specifically is.

[Aditus]

I wouldn't put a warning in for Drew's haiku, just to be clear. And when I tag a story, or poems, I'm always wary because it might spoil the piece, but we are supposed to do that anyway. Of course cannot foresee how readers interpret my poems, they could see death where I see not, a remaining risk. But when the topic is clear, when I'm explicitly writing about death, violence etc. in a way that could disturb a sensitive reader, I will tag accordingly and even might put in an extra warning. Refraining from this because it would  'spoil the surprise' is a tad egotistical IMO.

Edited January 9, 2016 by aditus

[J.HunterDunn]

I have to agree with Adi.

 

People reading and/or contributing on GA come here to have a pleasurable experience, at least I do. 

That doesn't mean that I expect all happy endings and superficial happiness, on the contrary, that would soon get pretty boring. Some of the best stories I have read here deal with subjects I am only too grateful never to have had to experience.

 

This may be a public place, but it still is a community where people have friends. From good friends to acquaintances, in smaller or larger numbers. This makes that the line between directly/in person and public domain cannot be drawn quite so straight.

 

The warning for content that may upset some people is simply a sign of respect for other users of this site.

An author who doesn't show this kind of courtecy to his/her readers will eventually see a decrease in interest for his/her work.

 

The decision whether a warning should be given is of course a personal one. I can see that one could apply different personal standards for poetry and prose.

 

Personally there are not many subjects that will make me shy away from a story. But I'm not always in the mood to deal with death or violence. For those moments I appreciate having been warned.

[Doctor Oger]

We actually kind of sort of agree in some way.

It shouldn't hurt a piece of prose to warn of anything in it. Poetry, however, has to be analysed, that's the point of putting something in code in the first place, so it can be deciphered. (Maybe you could argue that someone who has the skill to do that usually also has the emotional maturity, ability for detachment or factualness to cope with what they discover.)

For prose warnings may be warranted if a topic or something in it is really controversial or is something that's usually taken seriously and personally but dealt with in an indelicate manner in the text. (Like Lord Dunn said, it doesn't pay to piss off your readers, to put it bluntly.)

[Mikiesboy]

Poetry is personal in its meaning often. And I think putting warnings on it will limit the reader's experience. Where I feel loss or sadness, others may feel hope. I often feel wonder at the responses of others to my poems, sometimes I'm not sure of how I feel, until the reader shares their feelings. It's like watching a garden grow.

 

Fiction and more especially non-fiction, yes I put a warning on. I wish life came with one sometimes!

[Doctor Oger]

[...] Where I feel loss or sadness, others may feel hope. I often feel wonder at the responses of others to my poems, sometimes I'm not sure of how I feel, until the reader shares their feelings. It's like watching a garden grow. [...]

 

It's surprising what people come up with and makes you read your own things again through their eyes. That's a cool moment, discovering that the thing you built can do more than you originally intended.

[Mikiesboy]

We can look death in the eye as long as we want, but there are people/readers out there who can't for  many reasons. I wouldn't want to send someone in depressions because one of the main characters of a story suddenly dies. The same with poetry. We can write about death, dying, fighting with a fatal illness, but we should tell up front or at least choose a telling title .JMHO

I agree, warnings tags etc, should be used for fiction and non-fiction, that's not what I was saying. If it's right a character dies, then he has to go. If I lose a reader because of it, well I do. You need to keep your brave on, and write your story!

It's surprising what people come up with and makes you read your own things again through their eyes. That's a cool moment, discovering that the thing you built can do more than you originally intended.

Yes, that's it exactly. See, loving the Doctor isn't so hard or lonely!

[Doctor Oger]

xD It only is if he has a TARDIS on hand.

[Puppilull]

It's like watching a garden grow.

 

I love that! So very true.

 

I think I have my story/poem all figured out and then the lovely readers share their reactions and interpretations and it all changes! Suddenly there's a large patch of daffodils where I thought there would only be roses... 

[Mikiesboy]

xD It only is if he has a TARDIS on hand.

Oh, the Doctor is more than the TARDIS!

[Mikiesboy]

I love that! So very true.

 

I think I have my story/poem all figured out and then the lovely readers share their reactions and interpretations and it all changes! Suddenly there's a large patch of daffodils where I thought there would only be roses...

 

Outta likes!

 

Yes, I love it!

 

(Honestly, I'd pay for more likes!)

[dughlas]

I love that! So very true.

 

I think I have my story/poem all figured out and then the lovely readers share their reactions and interpretations and it all changes! Suddenly there's a large patch of daffodils where I thought there would only be roses...

 

Like tim, I'm out of likes ...

and I like daffodils

[AC Benus]

We can look death in the eye as long as we want, but there are people/readers out there who can't for  many reasons. I wouldn't want to send someone in depressions because one of the main characters of a story suddenly dies. The same with poetry. We can write about death, dying, fighting with a fatal illness, but we should tell up front or at least choose a telling title .JMHO

Oh Adi, not to downplay what you're saying here, but the comment about the main character dying instantly made me think of the Secret Santa story where the old Saint was brutally assassinated by a mad man....a warning there, and I would not have read it.