Gay Romance- Insta-Love vs. Slow-Burn vs...

[W_L]

One of the few benefits of COVID isolation is the ability to read and write a lot of my favorite stories. I've learned in the past year I am a deeply sentimental romantic

Something I've come across is that there are distinct styles of gay romance writers:

1. Some authors prefer insta-love in order to shift the characters into focusing on the plot, while their romance is an acknowledged fact like the sun rises in the morning or the law of gravity still works (unless you're in a fantasy story). It's a world building element.

2. Some authors prefer slow-burn in order to make the romance between main characters the focus of the story. The plot exists, but it's in the background and it is more plot device for the romance. It's part of the central conflicts/plots/characters.

3. Some authors prefer integrated romantic plot in order to make the romance important to the plot, but not the main focus of the plot. The romance isn't achieved quickly and can sometimes drag the story into dramatic interludes.

There are always exceptions to these 3 categories, but I feel like I've been reading 3 basic kinds of love stories recently.

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Personally, I think 1 and 2 are my favorite kinds of love stories, even if they are polar opposites: Either have "love at first sight" to give the characters more room for plot/world building, or "slow burn" and build up a relationship, so characters can explore and be more fully fleshed out.

The #3 option is one where I sometimes feel like it gets too draggy; if you try to do too much in building a relationship as a component to a larger plot, some authors actually detract from the major plot by focusing too much on the main character's romances or the romance gets overlooked for the plot elements, like you only get one line saying "we had sex" and leaves readers without a payoff. There are plenty of authors who can do this well and juggle plot A/(Romance) with plot B/(Big Bad/Conflict), but the stumbles in gay romances seem to come from stories that try to do too much.

I know many of you also write or enjoy gay romances as well, what do you think?

[BigBen]

My ex and I fell in love pretty much at first sight, so I know it can happen.  If a writer can portray love at first sight convincingly, I'll happily read that story.  Real love is one of the least trivial things in the universe, so writing capable of depicting real love is always worth reading.  On the other hand, any portrayal so shallow that it could conceivably be called Insta-Love is ipso facto too trivial to be worth reading.

The same comments apply to the depiction of slow romances as well, when you get right down to it.  If it's written believably, I'm right there.  What I have trouble with is stories where each character is throwing himself at the other, and as long as no body parts penetrate other body parts, they somehow manage to miss the signs (and probably would, even then).  In one story I read recently, the couple actually kissed, and each still somehow managed to remain in denial about the other's feelings for another fifteen chapters (well, okay, maybe not quite that many, lol!).  At some point, the reader stops believing in the romance (or the characters' intelligence) and stops reading.

A well-written story can make romance and plot blend quite nicely.  A case in point is Lois McMaster Bujold's Civil Campaign, in which the central character and his love interest go slowly and hilariously crazy trying to figure out how to get together, while meanwhile surrounded by political intrigue.  Granted, there is less romance and more intrigue in the previous volume of the series, the book in which the characters actually meet.  Taken together, however, the two novels are a fine example of how a burgeoning romance can be an integral and believable part of a gripping plot.

For me, believability is the key.  If you can convince me that this is the way these two unique people go about falling in love, more power to you!  I'll read along, however you decide to make things work out.  On the other hand, I find it inherently unbelievable that thirteen-year-olds are capable of recognizing a soul mate and forming a lifetime relationship.  You want to try and convince me that these two thirteen-year-olds are an exception, you've got a tough job ahead of you.

[W_L]

20 hours ago, BigBen said:

My ex and I fell in love pretty much at first sight, so I know it can happen.  If a writer can portray love at first sight convincingly, I'll happily read that story.  Real love is one of the least trivial things in the universe, so writing capable of depicting real love is always worth reading.  On the other hand, any portrayal so shallow that it could conceivably be called Insta-Love is ipso facto too trivial to be worth reading.

The same comments apply to the depiction of slow romances as well, when you get right down to it.  If it's written believably, I'm right there.  What I have trouble with is stories where each character is throwing himself at the other, and as long as no body parts penetrate other body parts, they somehow manage to miss the signs (and probably would, even then).  In one story I read recently, the couple actually kissed, and each still somehow managed to remain in denial about the other's feelings for another fifteen chapters (well, okay, maybe not quite that many, lol!).  At some point, the reader stops believing in the romance (or the characters' intelligence) and stops reading.

A well-written story can make romance and plot blend quite nicely.  A case in point is Lois McMaster Bujold's Civil Campaign, in which the central character and his love interest go slowly and hilariously crazy trying to figure out how to get together, while meanwhile surrounded by political intrigue.  Granted, there is less romance and more intrigue in the previous volume of the series, the book in which the characters actually meet.  Taken together, however, the two novels are a fine example of how a burgeoning romance can be an integral and believable part of a gripping plot.

For me, believability is the key.  If you can convince me that this is the way these two unique people go about falling in love, more power to you!  I'll read along, however you decide to make things work out.  On the other hand, I find it inherently unbelievable that thirteen-year-olds are capable of recognizing a soul mate and forming a lifetime relationship.  You want to try and convince me that these two thirteen-year-olds are an exception, you've got a tough job ahead of you.

Very true, believability is important at least for normal human fiction stories. At some point though, I will suspend belief to get my happy ending.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of "Shifter" fiction recently and it has gotten so formulaic at times from various writers that once you tell me the background of the pairing, I can tell you where, when, and how the male Omega will be wooed and impregnated by their Alpha male partner   While I enjoy the world building in some of these stories, I find the romances tediously simple as to be called "fated mates". It doesn't stop me from reading the stories if the plot is engaging, or the characters wit/snark makes up for the romantic components

For me, love at first sight may be technically impossible, I am legally blind and details of facial or body formation escape me. However, I think love at first contact may be possible, the chemistry between two people via verbal conversation and sensual/sexual exploration can lead into a relationship. However, personal experience has taught me that such things may be fun, but they aren't long lasting either as relationships are far more complicated than sex. Sexual chemistry does not lead to happily ever after. Having a successful relationship is harder than what gay Romance fiction depicts.

Yet, I find myself yearning to escape into gay Romance fiction, despite knowing what is real and finding that solace. I guess its like the old saying of "preferring illusion to despair". That's what good gay romances do for me; they provide me an escape into a world where love actually works out in the end rather than the messy reality of compromised relationships and unhealthy attachments.

Edited February 8, 2021 by W_L

[Krista]

On 2/7/2021 at 6:46 PM, BigBen said:

My ex and I fell in love pretty much at first sight, so I know it can happen.  If a writer can portray love at first sight convincingly, I'll happily read that story.  Real love is one of the least trivial things in the universe, so writing capable of depicting real love is always worth reading.  On the other hand, any portrayal so shallow that it could conceivably be called Insta-Love is ipso facto too trivial to be worth reading.

The same comments apply to the depiction of slow romances as well, when you get right down to it.  If it's written believably, I'm right there.  What I have trouble with is stories where each character is throwing himself at the other, and as long as no body parts penetrate other body parts, they somehow manage to miss the signs (and probably would, even then).  In one story I read recently, the couple actually kissed, and each still somehow managed to remain in denial about the other's feelings for another fifteen chapters (well, okay, maybe not quite that many, lol!).  At some point, the reader stops believing in the romance (or the characters' intelligence) and stops reading.

A well-written story can make romance and plot blend quite nicely.  A case in point is Lois McMaster Bujold's Civil Campaign, in which the central character and his love interest go slowly and hilariously crazy trying to figure out how to get together, while meanwhile surrounded by political intrigue.  Granted, there is less romance and more intrigue in the previous volume of the series, the book in which the characters actually meet.  Taken together, however, the two novels are a fine example of how a burgeoning romance can be an integral and believable part of a gripping plot.

For me, believability is the key.  If you can convince me that this is the way these two unique people go about falling in love, more power to you!  I'll read along, however you decide to make things work out.  On the other hand, I find it inherently unbelievable that thirteen-year-olds are capable of recognizing a soul mate and forming a lifetime relationship.  You want to try and convince me that these two thirteen-year-olds are an exception, you've got a tough job ahead of you.

You pretty much summed up my critique for both of those as well. I'm more of a slow burn reader and writer. You can probably tell who is going to end up with who, but not knowing the when and how right off the bat just feels more or a natural progression to me. As long as it isn't boring or, like you explained - so painfully obvious the characters are probably glaring side-eyed at the author. 

 

5 hours ago, W_L said:

Very true, believability is important at least for normal human fiction stories. At some point though, I will suspend belief to get my happy ending.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of "Shifter" fiction recently and it has gotten so formulaic at times from various writers that once you tell me the background of the pairing, I can tell you where, when, and how the male Omega will be wooed and impregnated by their Alpha male partner   While I enjoy the world building in some of these stories, I find the romances tediously simple as to be called "fated mates". It doesn't stop me from reading the stories if the plot is engaging, or the characters wit/snark makes up for the romantic components

For me, love at first sight may be technically impossible, I am legally blind and details of facial or body formation escape me. However, I think love at first contact may be possible, the chemistry between two people via verbal conversation and sensual/sexual exploration can lead into a relationship. However, personal experience has taught me that such things may be fun, but they aren't long lasting either as relationships are far more complicated than sex. Sexual chemistry does not lead to happily ever after. Having a successful relationship is harder than what gay Romance fiction depicts.

Yet, I find myself yearning to escape into gay Romance fiction, despite knowing what is real and finding that solace. I guess its like the old saying of "preferring illusion to despair". That's what good gay romances do for me; they provide me an escape into a world where love actually works out in the end rather than the messy reality of compromised relationships and unhealthy attachments.

Fated pairing and even the Alpha always falling for the Omega are the two top reasons why I do not get into shifter stories. They are too formulaic, as you said. Too structured. I hate the thought of... willed love. Or no matter the force of will the characters have, it is inevitable because of some supernatural connection. Even if I like the characters, I hate they don't have free will. Some stories that I've read, they break from traditional fated pairings, but that's only when there isn't a supernatural element forcing the two to become paired. Still I find those stories annoying as well, since the entire plot revolves around them fighting tradition and wanting free will. And those stories mostly become love triangles that either resolves by the death of one character or a forced unforgivable act from one of the characters, usually the one the author has always decided was there for the, "lusting," factor in shifter stories. 

Not being an expert in the genre though, I feel it is more or less playing off wolfpack dynamics in that there's a strict hierarchy and that hierarchy is a bonded pair. Now we know that isn't exactly true in wolves in nature. Wolfpacks are way more fluid than that, also within the structure of wolfpacks, it is usually the offspring or siblings of the mated pair that are the lowest rankings, so biologically it doesn't really make sense for the Alpha who is unpaired to choose from the bottom.  

[BigBen]

18 hours ago, W_L said:

For me, love at first sight may be technically impossible, I am legally blind and details of facial or body formation escape me.

Sorry for the ableist, though customary, turn of phrase.  "Love at first encounter" is indeed the real meaning.

I like the point that sexual chemistry and love are not the same thing, though both writers and readers tend to conflate them.  My impression is that, in real life, the sexual chemistry is meant to hold a couple together long enough for them to find a solid basis for a relationship.  I have found that while sex is part of the "glue" that keeps a marriage going, there are many other aspects of that kind of commitment that are also highly satisfying and which also help serve as glue.  One of the most satisfying parts of my ten-year relationship/marriage was being able to sit together in silence, companionably doing our own things, but together.  I'd like to be able to write about that thereness even more than about the other aspects of love.

[W_L]

Don't worry @BigBen, it's pretty normal and I get what most people are trying to describe with the catch of phrase. Also in terms of sexual chemistry, I've learned that love is not always as G rated as some romance movies make them out to be among adults.

@Krista You hit the nail on that one, shifter stories do focus a lot on old-fashioned notions of Wolf hierarchy (defunct notions too), even among other animal species. I find it hard to believe in a recent story series I read that a male lion shifter would be equivalent to an Alpha among other male lions, when lions usually do not have many males in a pride/pack except their own offspring, while there was absolutely no female presence at all. Romance writers focus on the love story, but details like that could improve it and change formulas around.

 

[BigBen]

I imagine that writers of gay male romance would want their prides to be filled with male lions, regardless of reality.  I suppose writers of gay female romances (are there any?) would be happy with the reality.

I'm trying to come up with a pun on the word "pride" here, but to no avail.

[W_L]

1 hour ago, BigBen said:

I imagine that writers of gay male romance would want their prides to be filled with male lions, regardless of reality.  I suppose writers of gay female romances (are there any?) would be happy with the reality.

I'm trying to come up with a pun on the word "pride" here, but to no avail.

Tons of lesbian fiction out there nowadays, along with queer fiction and Trans fiction, within the genre of shifter romances. However, it's the same kind of formula, Alpha meets omega, Omega tries to play hard to get or is so sexually aroused he/she/they must submit, and a few chapters later a baby pops up.

Still, there are good things about that genre especially with non-Wolf shifters. I love the idea of a role reversal in lion versus human societies, since it is biologically accurate.

You can be both Prideful and Prejudicial on this subject

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Beyond shifter gay romance fiction, there's also a whole of host of other gay romance things between insta-love and slow-burn. Enemies turn lovers stories are fun to read, but has anyone ever really fallen in love with their worst enemies? I have to suspend my disbelief when I read those stories too, but I do like daydreaming about what could have been, i.e. what if I had the courage to ask my high school bully out for a date?

[BigBen]

Enemies to lovers just doesn't work for me.  Too many bad feelings for me to want to ask any of the school bullies out on a date, even the one who was actually good-looking.

Unfortunately, lovers to enemies is far truer to life than enemies to lovers.  There are a few guys I used to have feelings for, and whom I'd never take back, though there are plenty more whom I would (even if I shouldn't, which is another story, lol!).

[W_L]

@BigBen

For me, there's a type thing going in relationships: I prefer guys who "need" me. There's a long story of life experiences and background that made me the way I am. I've been able to create friends from hookups and short term boyfriends, but I've also had horror stories about ex-boyfriends, who became very dependent for emotional support. Yes, I'm that kind of guy and want to be the rock in a relationship, but I also learned that kind of stance kills relationships and hurt me very deeply, when I realize I can't help them.

Another reason why I think I wrote "Comforting Touch" so quickly was that I never read any characters like me in fiction. A person, who wants to help for a host of personal resons, but who is so bitterly haunted by being that person.

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There are positive concepts too like "Friends to lovers" to me is the ultimate form of gay romance and probably the most likely way I'd ever consider marriage, your best friend maybe your best lover, a confidante and inspiration that already has a place in your heart, then you guys take it one step further with sex. I've had best friends who I had feeling for, but I never acted on them.

That concept might be overused, but it's done so for a good reason.

 

[BigBen]

I also enjoy being needed, but there is a risk in taking that dynamic too far.  I have found from experience that it is better to encourage my loved ones to be more independent and more themselves.  My most disastrous situations arose from my desire to be the one who made everything all right.

I agree with you about "friends to lovers."  That is the best path, both in fiction and in real life.  Although I have to admit that adding sex to a couple of my friendships didn't work out as well as I'd hoped.  On the other hand, my ex was my friend, as well as my lover, and that was part of why the relationship worked so well (until it was ended by other problems, at any rate).

[W_L]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:05 AM, BigBen said:

I also enjoy being needed, but there is a risk in taking that dynamic too far.  I have found from experience that it is better to encourage my loved ones to be more independent and more themselves.  My most disastrous situations arose from my desire to be the one who made everything all right.

I agree with you about "friends to lovers."  That is the best path, both in fiction and in real life.  Although I have to admit that adding sex to a couple of my friendships didn't work out as well as I'd hoped.  On the other hand, my ex was my friend, as well as my lover, and that was part of why the relationship worked so well (until it was ended by other problems, at any rate).

There's also another aspect to gay romance fiction I am starting to actually enjoy more as I grow older:

Second chance Lovers- You already know this person, he was a former lover, but you two for some stupid cosmic reason broke up or drifted apart.

There's something romantic in the idea that you could get back together with that guy you thought was the one, if only a few things went differently in your life or you made different choices. Maybe I am just overly romantic, but I know a lot of GA writers use that theme, even if we isn't listed as a tag. I hope someone in the staff will recognize it and writers can start using it to help romance die-hard find those stories

[Mikiesboy]

18 hours ago, W_L said:

There's also another aspect to gay romance fiction I am starting to actually enjoy more as I grow older:

Second chance Lovers- You already know this person, he was a former lover, but you two for some stupid cosmic reason broke up or drifted apart.

There's something romantic in the idea that you could get back together with that guy you thought was the one, if only a few things went differently in your life or you made different choices. Maybe I am just overly romantic, but I know a lot of GA writers use that theme, even if we isn't listed as a tag. I hope someone in the staff will recognize it and writers can start using it to help romance die-hard find those stories

I think we use that theme because it happens to people in the real world.  A do-over tag would fun.

[W_L]

4 hours ago, Mikiesboy said:

I think we use that theme because it happens to people in the real world.  A do-over tag would fun.

Definitely agree,

Another thing related to certain sub-genre of second chance romance: Moving on, but not entirely out of each other's hearts to the point of rekindling, is sort of unfair to current partners/lovers if they exist in the story. It makes sense if you know what the original couple had. That's the kind of complex relationship understanding that I enjoy in "second chance romances", not forgetting who you love the most, but also being decent human being in the process to current people in your life. There's a temptation to cheat, which is tragic in my view. I'd rather hope character honesty reveal their feelings without reservation on the past, present, and forge their future.

Don't know what to call that sub-genre though

Edited August 14, 2021 by W_L

[JamesSavik]

Lust at first sight is an easy hook for gay lit. It's overdone, but there is a lot of truth in it. We're gay. We're guys. It's sort of what we do.

The Slow Burn takes a lot of patience for the reader and the writer. What appears as a sweet courtship to some makes many get bored and watch sports. You don't want your readers thinking- just f* already you idiots.

Both create many hooks for the writer.

• In lust at first sight troupe, many times lovers discover that they don't really know each other.
• In the slow burn, potential lovers might find out that their partners aren't what they first appear.
• In both troupes, there is plenty of room for error, accident and drama.

As writers, our job is to deliver a plot that's original and strikes a balance that doesn't bore our readers.

That's where writing becomes much more art than science.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by jamessavik

[BigBen]

4 hours ago, jamessavik said:

What appears as a sweet courtship to some makes many get bored and watch sports.

"Watch sports"?  I'm sorry, I don't speak that language.  Could you translate please? 🤣 😂

[JamesSavik]

32 minutes ago, BigBen said:

"Watch sports"?  I'm sorry, I don't speak that language.  Could you translate please? 🤣 😂

 

I try to throw in some sports, serial killers or fights just to keep things interesting.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by jamessavik

[W_L]

6 minutes ago, jamessavik said:

 

I try to throw in some sports, serial killers or fights just to keep things interesting.

 

Or you can have melodrama, where the lovers family or exes show up and interrupt courtship ritual.

Simple courtship, dating, or regular hangout activities are appreciated by die-hard romantics, but @BigBen there's a thirst for action that motivates further movement than a simple connection in romance.

[Krista]

I'm a little late, but Enemies to Lovers has a lot of general ideas that work. In Fantasy, it is rival factions - Vampire Hunter/Vampire for instance. They're just "natural" enemies, but they haven't really done anything that can be unforgiveable. Probably one of the most used ones, really. Then you have childhood enemies to lovers. They grow up, maybe one character moved while they were younger and then moved back. So it is a "bias," that may no longer apply to either of the characters. So they get over their animosity towards one another with a lot of growing pains and forgiveness.

Also family bias or feuds, I mean technically Romeo and Juliet was an enemies to lovers, they just never participated in their family's hatred of one another.  

Perceived Rivals is also a good one that is used. The expectation being they hate one another and will always be combative, but they defy what is expected and become romantic partners instead.

Then there are stories where only one of the characters are to blame for them being enemies. If you can explain and justify the reasons why they had to be cruel to the person they end up in love with, then it can be an entertaining story to read/write. To a point cruelty or negative interactions/decisions aren't bad plot devices for writing fiction. Some animosity that leads to love/passion isn't bad as long as it is done well and within reason. 

What I mean by within reason. There has to be redemption, that is pretty much required. One or both characters would need to redeem themselves or at least prove some sort of redeeming quality. Also, there are some things that just aren't forgivable in my opinion and if they are - then the story becomes an issue for me. Rape for example. If they're "Enemies," because of that, it becomes an entirely different sort of story and that is one that I won't ever read. Continued abuse/bullying is another. Even if the character's target changed (or doesn't) after they became, "lovers." If the reason for them being enemies still exists and doesn't change and there is no redemption then it is just rewarding bad behavior. It isn't realistic and it is very shallow. 

Enemies to Lovers being "insta" lovers will never work either. It should be a slow struggle. 

---

Lust to Lovers or "Insta-love," that comes from lust for me - requires a lot of plotwork. I don't mind reading a story where they're banging in the first chapter. As long as there is a reason for the story to continue afterwards. If that is just more banging and shallow conversations to get to said banging... nah. I don't like it. James gives the better plot tropes for this sort of genre though.

---

I personally don't think I could do the "second chance" lovers trope any justice. I wouldn't know - I tend to write slow-burn, coming of age romances and I am in desperate need to branch out to something else.  

 

[BigBen]

@jamessavik @W_L  I occasionally get an urge to engage in physical activity.  When I do, I simply lie down until it passes. 🤣

[Ron]

On 8/14/2021 at 2:11 PM, jamessavik said:

We're gay. We're guys. It's sort of what we do.

It's the mantra. Just keep repeating it until it applies. 

[W_L]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:23 PM, Ron said:

It's the mantra. Just keep repeating it until it applies. 

Oh, it is There are plenty of great no-sex gay romances, but I just feel like something is missing when your characters don't get to express themselves.

On 8/16/2021 at 8:28 PM, Krista said:

I'm a little late, but Enemies to Lovers has a lot of general ideas that work. In Fantasy, it is rival factions - Vampire Hunter/Vampire for instance. They're just "natural" enemies, but they haven't really done anything that can be unforgiveable. Probably one of the most used ones, really. Then you have childhood enemies to lovers. They grow up, maybe one character moved while they were younger and then moved back. So it is a "bias," that may no longer apply to either of the characters. So they get over their animosity towards one another with a lot of growing pains and forgiveness.

Also family bias or feuds, I mean technically Romeo and Juliet was an enemies to lovers, they just never participated in their family's hatred of one another.  

Perceived Rivals is also a good one that is used. The expectation being they hate one another and will always be combative, but they defy what is expected and become romantic partners instead.

Then there are stories where only one of the characters are to blame for them being enemies. If you can explain and justify the reasons why they had to be cruel to the person they end up in love with, then it can be an entertaining story to read/write. To a point cruelty or negative interactions/decisions aren't bad plot devices for writing fiction. Some animosity that leads to love/passion isn't bad as long as it is done well and within reason. 

What I mean by within reason. There has to be redemption, that is pretty much required. One or both characters would need to redeem themselves or at least prove some sort of redeeming quality. Also, there are some things that just aren't forgivable in my opinion and if they are - then the story becomes an issue for me. Rape for example. If they're "Enemies," because of that, it becomes an entirely different sort of story and that is one that I won't ever read. Continued abuse/bullying is another. Even if the character's target changed (or doesn't) after they became, "lovers." If the reason for them being enemies still exists and doesn't change and there is no redemption then it is just rewarding bad behavior. It isn't realistic and it is very shallow. 

Enemies to Lovers being "insta" lovers will never work either. It should be a slow struggle. 

---

Lust to Lovers or "Insta-love," that comes from lust for me - requires a lot of plotwork. I don't mind reading a story where they're banging in the first chapter. As long as there is a reason for the story to continue afterwards. If that is just more banging and shallow conversations to get to said banging... nah. I don't like it. James gives the better plot tropes for this sort of genre though.

---

I personally don't think I could do the "second chance" lovers trope any justice. I wouldn't know - I tend to write slow-burn, coming of age romances and I am in desperate need to branch out to something else.  

 

@KristaYou're a wonderful author, I think you can handle anything that comes your way. Romance is an umbrella genre, it has a lot of combinations.

A sub-genre I am really liking more of nowadays is the "Comfort-lover" type story-line, I've read more gay romances with disadvantage gay teens, traumatized adults, and veterans with PTSD, who just need that friend/lover that is willing to be their rock or help them out. There's something very warm and soulful about helping others get through those problems and finding love through it. I think the world needs more "comfort" romance, when we're faced so many different pressures and issues, just to provide a safe mind space for a nice world of possibilities that might elude us right now. That's the gift of a timeless romance writer, someone who can allow you to escape your problems briefly and open your mind to the potential for happiness.