Linux vs Windows

[Kia Zi Shiru]

Since I very much dislike my Vista I was planning on getting myself a copy of Win7, WAS.... since I found out that I can only pay by credit card and ofcourse.... I don't have one... So a mail is on the way to Asus to get info on how I will be able to get one anyway.... not sure it will help but heck... worth the try.

 

Also a couple of days ago the new ubuntu got released, ubuntu 9.10. I've been looking at some pictures and reading some stuff but I'm still not sure if I'll install it. I'm gonna dual boot anyway, since I need M$ for some school stuff and games and after 2 months I'm really missing my Linux.

Right now my pref in Linux is debian, since I killed ubuntu-eee before because there were too many programs on it and I accidentally deleted the wrong one. ever since I've installed debian a couple of times on 2 different computers (eeepc 7" and my old XP desktop) and I love it, but right now I don't feel like spending a full day looking for the right programs and getting everything to work the way I want to.

 

So who can shed some light on this? Is there an easy way to get Win7 without having the chance that things like cracks and such will ruin my laptop? and is The new ubuntu really good, and pretty 'clean' (aka not too many games and useless programs on it)? Or should I use debian (when is/was the newest version?) or another linux distro that anyone could reccoment?

 

Now I'm quickly getting dressed because I should have left 5 minutes ago and I'm not even dressed....

thnx a lot guys!

[Eddy]

A few years ago I spent some time checking out the different Linux flavors and settled on Ubuntu. They have not disappointed me in any way. Both my desktop and laptop were initially dual boot - both are now only loaded with Ubuntu. I have found Linux much less complicated and user friendly than Windows and of course, way cheaper.

 

The latest version 9.10 is a 'first class' experience. Installation was clean and flawless in every way.

 

From what I have been reading, the "Ubuntu family" is the leader among all the Linux flavors at this point in time. I wouldn't think twice about recommended Ubuntu.

[Kia Zi Shiru]

if you come from windows, ubuntu is indeed the most used distro, but like I said, I killed it before so I'm not really comfortable changing anything on it at this time... My uncle recently switched to linux (ubuntu) and he is very happy with it too, he even made a dual boot not 4 weeks later (does remind me that I should tell him to upgrade )

 

I come from a mostly Mac background, and love Debian, but I'm kind of tired having to spend 2 days getting everything work the way I want it and was wondering if others might have other ideas from debian and ubuntu.

[Phantom]

Hey Kia! I'm a little familiar with Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) and Windows 7, so I'll give you my unbiased opinion (before I head to class). I'm also gonna explain a little in case there are others that have similar questions.

 

Windows 7 is the latest release from Microsoft, replacing Windows Vista as its top Operating System. The minimum requirements to run it is a little less then Vista (1GHz processor, 1Gigabyte of RAM, 16 Gigabyte hard drive, and a modern video card that can run DirectX 9.0). If you bought a computer that came with Windows Vista pre-installed, you can certainly run Windows 7. Windows 7 also has some changes to the way the desktop looks, but it's nothing too drastic (One example is the task bar and start button which was replaced with a ribbon like feature similar to that in Office 2007). It also offers thumbnails of programs that are running, so if you have multiple windows open, you can hover your mouse over one and all of them will pop up with real-time updates (it's called Aero Peak). The only downside of Windows 7 is the price to upgrade and that it also contains a lot of software that you must pay for. Granted you can always use Open Source Alternatives, it's still a bit of a pain. I've used Windows 7 since the beta, and the release, and I have to say it's one of my favorite windows OS's. It's fixed a lot of mistakes that came with Vista so if you can, try it, especially if you have a lot of software that requires Windows.

 

Ubuntu 9.10, also called Karmic Koala, is the newest Ubuntu release. It contains a lot of upgrades and new features compared to previous editions of Ubuntu, and provides lower system requirements as to Windows 7 (it requires a minimum of a 300MHz processor, 64Megabytes of RAM, 4GB hard drive, VGA capable video card that can display a minimum of 640x480 resolution). With lower requirements, you can effectively run it on any computer made in the past 10 years, though to get the best experience out of ubuntu, you should run it on a Windows XP era and newer computer. The only downside with using Ubuntu is the lack of support and inter-operability between most Windows programs and hardware. For example, you cannot use Internet Explorer or Office 2007 on Ubuntu, but you can use alternatives like OpenOffice or Firefox (although some programs are OS specific and there are no work arounds). A good website to finding Free and Open Source Alternatives (FOSA) is this one: http://www.osalt.com/ My best advice is to dual-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.10 and see which one you like better, because ultimately that is the only way you can tell. Also when you dual boot, make sure to plug in all hardware (Printers, External HD, etc.) and see which OS offers better functionality with them. Personally, I've converted my desktop and netbook to Ubuntu 9.10 because of how strongly I believe in the Open Source Philosophy. Also because I am going to school for Windows Certifications and have to use Windows Specific software for class, I use a combination of WINE (WINE is not an emulator found here: http://www.winehq.org/ ) and also using a Virtual Machine when that doesn't work (I use VirtualBox by Sun Microsystems found here: http://www.virtualbox.org/) Wine can be installed easily, though VirtualBox might be better for a more advanced user. Ultimatly, they both perform very well and each has their own perks and drawbacks, and the rest relies on you to decide which is better. And if you have any questions, you can always PM me. I'd be more then glad to help you out Eric

 

PS - I did this before I saw the replies and you wanting an alternative to Ubuntu and Debain. Another distro that works out of the box with little setup and tweaking is Mandriva. I used to use it before settling on Ubuntu, but I can saw that it was nice. You can find out more info here http://www.mandriva.com . I'd tell you more but since the last time I used it, there's been a few new releases from it.

 

Hope this helps

 

[Jack Frost]

I just use Linux because I don't want to pay for Windows updates after Vista. It's lighter and quicker on my PC. Windows just slow down the PC as it gets older for some reason. :s It lets me do whatever I want (except for that annoying issue with flash on my browser and I can't play Sim City or Civilization... but again I can't run those on Vista either. Only at my parents' house... seven hours away. ). I've been using Firefox since 2003 and OpenOffice for over a year, so there isn't much of a change apart from getting used to Linux.

 

I just keep Windows Vista on... Just in case on a blue moon (once or twice per month) I'd need it.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Jack Frost

[Hoskins]

I can't speak to the price for Windows 7 because I pay M$ $300 a year and get lots of their software for free.

 

HOWEVER:

Microsoft is running this offer for college students - $29.99 a copy for Windows 7. I have no idea how you would qualify but I'm pretty sure that the bar is pretty low. There are international alternatives:

 

UK: http://www.microsoft...er/default.aspx

 

Canada (EN): http://www.windows.ca/studentoffer

 

Canada (FR): http://www.windows.ca/fr/studentoffer

 

France: http://www.windows7pourlesetudiants.fr

 

Germany: http://www.Windows7fuerStudenten.de

 

Australia: http://www.microsoft...nt-upgrade.aspx

 

Mexico: http://www.windows7p...udiantes.com.mx

 

Korea: http://www.microsoft...windows/student

 

 

That being said, I'm extremely impressed with Windows 7. The taskbar improvements go beyond tweaks - between the taskbar and "Libraries" you truly change the way you access your files.

I personally think that aside from internet/email/chat/social apps, document and file management is one of the least taught, least understood and most critical parts of using a computer. Only Mac with Spotlight and the dock, and now win7 with the taskbar, libraries, and built in search, actually make it so you don't have to care where the stuff is actually stored, you just find it when you need it.

Driver support and device management is a lot better too. Oh, and Sticky Notes, once I figured out how to change the font.

 

My last experience with Linux was Ubuntu 9.04 in a "Dell netbook" environment, and it sucked so bad I blew it away and put (gag) XP on it just because I know the driver support will be there. Shitty driver support, nonexistent support from Dell, blah blah blah.

I know there are good distros out there and I look forward to beating up Ubuntu 9.10 some, but I need a good month just to get over the deep, unabiding resentment towards open source I've been left with. This will fade the next time I have to buy a copy of Orifice for one of my customers and only make 10% on the deal.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Hoskins

[Kia Zi Shiru]

couple of hours ago I installed ubuntu9.10 in dual boot on my laptop, and nothing but problems ever since... meh...

 

Vista keeps erroring all sorts of programs(mostly IE related like windows side bar and such) and ubuntu keeps freezing everyting I come even remotely close to installing ANYTHING on it, couple of minutes ago it froze when youtube just redirected me to the adobe website....

 

Meh.... this is crappy like this and I'm not liking it at all I can even listen to music because all the programs that are standard won't run mp3's or avi's....meh......

[Hoskins]

I think maybe you need to look at reinstalling Vista (a repair install, not a full one), then reinstalling GRUB (the linux boot loader). The Vista reinstall will probably break GRUB. Your ubuntu install has probably borked the Vista boot loader, which is why Vista is dying on you. So fix Vista, then fix GRUB. You will need a Vista install disk and to reinstall grub you'll do that by booting Ubunto as a Live CD.

[Kia Zi Shiru]

Well my Vista works fine now, so I don't have any worries for it at this moment.

Also, I know my graphic card software is to blame on the ubuntu side of the computer....

 

for now I'm very annoyed with ubuntu, this is the second time (like I said in my first post) that I try pre-programmed stuff and not liking it once again... so I might just try to install Debian on it if it doesn't get fixed soon....

right now the problems are:

- freezing (atm, it even froze when I tried to boot it, it went to the desktop and froze)

- crappy PDF reader (it only shows pdf's I don't even have options to make it safe where I was reading)

- crappy music and video program (both won't play either mp3 or avi, the music program is replaced by audacious [winamp lookalike that actually can use winamp skins and equalizer files, which is great] )

- sound drivers failed (had the same problem on my debian, on that one I de-installed everything and now I have sound, crappy, but it has sound)

- no vlc (it isn't on the list of programmable software....)

x way too many games (I de-installed everything, but still.... why does it have to be pre-installed with that many games? )

- no root? (I can't seem to be able to log onto root... and now I can't change some folders.....)

- no NVIDIA software (which is probably the cause of all the freezing)

- can't seem to be able to change language pack to english from dutch

 

For now, if I won't be able to fix this within a week or so I'm just gonna go back to debian and try from there.

[Jack Frost]

- freezing (atm, it even froze when I tried to boot it, it went to the desktop and froze)

- crappy PDF reader (it only shows pdf's I don't even have options to make it safe where I was reading)

- crappy music and video program (both won't play either mp3 or avi, the music program is replaced by audacious [winamp lookalike that actually can use winamp skins and equalizer files, which is great] )

- sound drivers failed (had the same problem on my debian, on that one I de-installed everything and now I have sound, crappy, but it has sound)

- no vlc (it isn't on the list of programmable software....)

x way too many games (I de-installed everything, but still.... why does it have to be pre-installed with that many games? )

- no root? (I can't seem to be able to log onto root... and now I can't change some folders.....)

- no NVIDIA software (which is probably the cause of all the freezing)

- can't seem to be able to change language pack to english from dutch

To be frank... I never had any of those problem with Ubuntu.

 

You could discuss all of these problems on an Ubuntu forum. They might try to help you better.

[Kia Zi Shiru]

they were able to help me on the forum (I posted there before I even made that post), and now I've got my laptop working in a way I loooove ^^

 

right now the problems are:

- freezing (atm, it even froze when I tried to boot it, it went to the desktop and froze)

- crappy PDF reader (it only shows pdf's I don't even have options to make it safe where I was reading)

- crappy music and video program (both won't play either mp3 or avi, the music program is replaced by audacious [winamp lookalike that actually can use winamp skins and equalizer files, which is great] )

- sound drivers failed (had the same problem on my debian, on that one I de-installed everything and now I have sound, crappy, but it has sound)

- no vlc (it isn't on the list of programmable software....)

- way too many games (I de-installed everything, but still.... why does it have to be pre-installed with that many games? )

- no root? (I can't seem to be able to log onto root... and now I can't change some folders.....)

- no NVIDIA software (which is probably the cause of all the freezing)

- can't seem to be able to change language pack to english from dutch

 

The only problem left is the sound, the rest was fixed with some Synaptics settings and a better fitting kernel (newer than the one ubuntu came with). And the sound thing is something a lot of people are trying to get a good fix for....

[Hoskins]

Awesome. I'm interested in your opinion of Ubuntu after you've had some time with it.

[Kia Zi Shiru]

to be honest, apart from the looks and some user options I don have much standard ubuntu left....

I've worked with debian for almost a year now and back when I started with it I've researched a lot of different programs which I could use that had high performance and low space usage... so I de-installed a lot of programs and put my own favourites in place of those.

I've used gnome as long as I've used debian (and even longer since I used ubuntu-eee (later easy peasy) before I started on debian), but this time I've got the space, the videocard and the RAM to actually play around with it. I've chosen the changing background, so every couple of minutes I see a different solar system picture, which is fun. I also put on some other fun stuff to play around with. For now this is nice, but I'll prob play around with it some more when I have more time (and more options ).

 

Like I said, apart form some desktop enhancements there isn't much of a difference for me. Even the stupid sound problem is something I haven fixed yet on my other 2 debian computers.