Daisy

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/crashing Just want to share a brilliant programme. Although it's humour's not for everyone, saying not sure how much of it will appeal to an American audience either ... It's got a great gay storyline too. And female writers. Keep watching past the first ep, it's worth it!

Neither are we

Too many ballads tonight. Agree about the languages - I think I read that only 4 were doing that.

I'm sure I recognise some of these songs. Either that or they've ripped off parts. The songs seems to be improving a bit as the running order goes on.

Anyone watching? The graham norton version. Reminds me of GA and watching it whilst chatting on here. Time flies.

Thanks Cia. Zombie, there maybe differences in the country that you are from about the law surrounding rape and sexual assault. Obviously proving anything of this nature is hard without evidence that needs to be gathered asap before it disappears forever. However, here in the UK, the law is pretty clear that the issue of consent is something that the man (or aggressor) must have clearly reasoned. If he can't prove that then they are on dodgy ground. Drinking can mean that the person is unlikely to have the capacity to consent - they must have thought about this. If they haven't then that can be considered to be unreasonable and the charge can still go ahead. As for resistance, this does not need to have happened for it to be rape or sexual assault - lack of resistance does not mean there is consent. A lot of people freeze when they are in this situation, it is a natural reaction. Here is some more information for you: Current legal definition of rape The Sexual Offences Act 2003 (the Act) came into force on the 1st May 2004. The purpose of the Act was to strengthen and modernise the law on sexual offences, whilst improving preventative measures and the protection of individuals from sexual offenders. The Act extends the definition of rape to include the penetration by a penis of the vagina, anus or mouth of another person. The 2003 Act also changes the law about consent and belief in consent. The word "consent" in the context of the offence of rape is now defined in the Sexual Offences Act 2003. A person consents if he or she agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. The essence of this definition is the agreement by choice. The law does not require the victim to have resisted physically in order to prove a lack of consent. The question of whether the victim consented is a matter for the jury to decide, although the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) considers this issue very carefully throughout the life of the case. What is sexual (indecent) assault? Sexual assault is an act of physical, psychological and emotional violation, in the form of a sexual act, which is inflicted on someone without consent. It can involve forcing or manipulating someone to witness or participate in any sexual acts, apart from penetration of the mouth with the penis, the penetration of anus or vagina (however slight) with any object or the penis, which is rape. Under section 1(1) SOA 2003 a defendant, A, is guilty of rape if: _ A intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of B (the complainant) with his penis; _ B does not consent to the penetration; and, _ A does not reasonably believe that B consents. For the offence of rape to have been committed the defendant must have penetrated you without your consent, or continued to penetrate you after you withdrew your consent, and the defendant must not have reasonably believed that you were consenting. (my bold). What is the definition of consent? The Act has three important provisions relating to consent. They are: A statutory definition of consent The test of reasonable belief in consent The evidential and conclusive presumptions about consent and the defendant's belief in consent Section 74 defines consent as "if she agrees by choice, and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice" . Deciding whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents (subsection (2) of sections 1-4). It is likely that this will include a defendant's attributes, such as disability or extreme youth. This is a major change in the law and the Act abolishes the Morgan defence of a genuine though unreasonably mistaken belief as to the consent of the complainant. It means that the defendant (A) has the responsibility to ensure that ( consents to the sexual activity at the time in question. It will be important for the police to ask the offender in interview what steps he took to satisfy him that the complainant consented. What are the common defences to rape? There are 3 defences to rape: Nothing happened It wasn't me She consented Because of DNA fingerprinting, we are getting much fewer of the first two defences and much more of defence three. Because of the Morgan ruling in the mid 1970s, to convict a man of rape first of all, the prosecution had to convince the jury beyond reasonable doubt that the woman was not consenting. Whether he was guilty or not depended on whether or not he thought she was consenting - what was going on in his head - not what was happening to her body. This was the "Morgan" rule which says that a man is not guilty of rape if he believed she was consenting NO MATTER HOW UNREASONABLE THAT BELIEF. The Sexual Offences Act 2003 introduced the concept of 'reasonable steps'. Deciding whether a belief is reasonable is done by considering any steps he has taken to ascertain whether she consented (subsection (2) of sections 1-4). This is a major change in the law and the Act abolishes the Morgan defence of a genuine though unreasonably mistaken belief as to consent. http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/Definitionofrape2.php (the consent applies to the other sexual offences too). In terms of who would argue the case in court - that would be the CPS. They decide if the case (with the women's agreement) goes to court. What is the woman's role in the court? The woman's role is as a witness for the prosecution and as such she is not represented by legal counsel. Is she represented in court? Not at present. In Ireland, representation of the woman has just started. If they can do it we can do it, as the legal systems are very similar. Myth The women was drunk / took drugs / had a bad reputation / was hitch hiking / wore tight clothes / seduced him / probably got what she was asking for. Fact If a person is unconscious or their judgement is impaired by alcohol or drugs, legally they are unable to give consent. Having non-consensual sex with a person who is intoxicated is sexual assault. That video you referenced is in our cinemas at the moment - in the adverts before a film. It is quite provocative, hopefully people will take notice and think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YPC-Q2NMwJw C

Thanks everyone. And I'm sorry to hear Alex that you've got personal experience with the subject, but thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. I've seen her tonight. She's not going to report it, for several reasons. One of the main is that the success rate is so low and so the agony of the process would be too much for her, a natural coping mechanism of her's is to bury things and so going through that process is keeping it alive. Secondly, she is now doubting herself about what exactly happened. He DEFINITELY sexually assaulted her and she remembers the horrifying realization that he was going to take it further and stopping struggling as it seemed pointless as she couldn't budge him, but at that point she has a blank part to her memory. Whether that's alcohol, the trauma, whatever. And so she is not sure that he did penetrate her with more than his hand. She feels that if she was 100% confident he did rape her she would go to the police. I've tried to point out to her that the sexual assault on it's own is more than enough to go to the police with, but it's what she'd decided. However, the guy is rattled. He knows that we know what happened, that he hasn't got away scott free and doesnt know what we intend to do. And my friend has given her permission for him and the others that live in the house to be confronted and told about what happened - so he won't get away with it completely. She won't be involved, she never wants to be near him ever again, but she does want others to know. The main issue is the blame she is feeling. She does know logically that the blame lays squarely with him, but she is berating herself for drinking even a bit, and also she kissed him earlier in the night, something she wouldnt have done without alcohol, but never an invitation to rape. She feels that she could possibly have avoided the situation if not for these factors. And she is worried that if people know they will think her a slag. She knows that the main issue is trust, but what does that mean for trusting people in the future. People constantly are in situations where someone could take advantage, you can;t guard against all of them neither should you have to.

Thanks, and you're right about the CCTV. It had crossed my mind. I expect the experts she is seeing tomorrow most likely will mention it if she indicates that she wants to record the evidence. The main problem though is that the event we were at was unusual and in an unusual building that I doubt they had CCTV like most other places or certainly as much of it. It's possibly worth a shot though. And I will look after myself, you're right

Thanks Rob. We have been talking - talked a lot this weekend. My friend L (who lives with him) and I called RapeCrisis yesterday and they were really helpful. And if my friend who was assaulted wants to report it, she is going to a specialist centre tomorrow and if she decides to, they can take what evidence is still left, ready for if and when she wants to do so. Otherwise I'm hoping that she will at least take up their offer of counselling and support. Is he a danger to others? I don't know. If he's done it once then I can't see why he wouldn't do it again. My friend who lives with him doesn't fear him in that way though. However she has arranged to not be at home this week- she can't face being around him. Certainly without getting very angry. And it is a betrayal, you're right, that's what it feels like - it completely blew the wind out of us. In terms of her family - who she tells is up to her - that was the main message that we got from the helpline really and we already knew that instinctively. Thta having control of that after the control that was taken from her is very important. I doubt she will tell them. As much as family are supposed to love and support you unconditionally - some families are just messed up, and hers is one of them. They love her, but her mum is as likely to say the wrong thing as anything. Thanks. At least putting this out there has cleared my head at least temporarily. The figures on sex crimes are horrific. The latest crime survey has predicted that there are 1 in 5 women who are victims of sexual offences. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/10/sex-crimes-analysis-england-wales

He's not a friend, at least of mine - I'd only really met him a handful of times when I visited my other female friend's house. And he was a normal, friendly bubbly guy. We debated about what to do - my friend L and I (L is the girl who lives with him). But ultimately it was my friend J's decision about what we did or who she wants involved. Even though it put L in a very difficult position, and no she wants nothing to do with him. Associating with him in anyway feels like a betrayal. L is going to move out - at the very least she is staying somewhere else this week while she works out what to do. We rang a rape helpline and they basically just said that confronting him wouldnt get the results we wanted. He would either deny it or .... but that he almost certainly knew what he did. I suppose the shock is that people like him exist around us all.

Thanks Graeme. And yes, in part she is blaming herself. And the first thing either of us said was to counter those thoughts. And we will keep doing so. I can't force her to do anything, doing so would make her feel worse. But I think she will go to counselling - we found out about this organisation called The Haven and she is having an appointment there tomorrow - it's mainly for medical to begin with but if she wants support, they will offer it. I doubt she would report it. I asked her on the night and it was a no, but that wasn't the best of times. But even if she decided she wanted to, tomorrow would be 2 days afterwards so evidence gathering is hard and success rates of doing so are so low.

Hi Everyone, It's been a long time since I've been on here, at least to participate. I needed a space to vent, to share something that happened this weekend, to ask questions, and mainly just because right now I am distracted by this and there's not really anyone to speak to at the moment. Or there are but I don't want to. One of my best friends was raped this weekend. Raped. By someone we knew. I don't think she has processed it as rape yet or even if she will. Raped. It's a big word, and so odd (I haven't a clue what word to actually describe what I'm feeling) to think that about so personally. To make matters worse another friend of ours lives in the same house as him - it's a shared house with 3 others. We'd all met up for a night out at this wacky club and when he had her alone (from us at least) he just went for it. Don't ask, but the club had a small ball pool area which was where they were - surrounded by other party goers I might add. Yes, she had been drinking and was more than a bit tipsy, yes she had kissed him earlier that night, but no she did not want it. She tried to push him off and did tell him no - but even if she hadn't because of the drink she didn't have true capacity to consent. He took complete advantage and was all smiley afterwards, the bastard. I have never seen my friend breakdown in the way that she did, it was devastating. Her first words to me? You'll hate me if I tell you something. Then later came the blame, I was drunk, he thought I was a slag, then what if I imagined it? As if you can imagine that. But I'm told it's quite a common response, even for those that hadn't had a drink. And yes the guy had been drinking too, but he wasn't that far gone he couldn't tell the basics. The very basics. I was shellshocked and didn't know what to do. And although my other friend and I spent yesterday coming up with a plan and getting our heads together, and I feel a lot more in control - this feeling of shock is back again at least for a little while. And you know, it's not the first friend to happen to. Not in this exact way but others have been attacked and assaulted in various degrees by strangers and acquaintances alike. This one just ripped home a lot harder for me - maybe because I was actually there, I don't know. Part of it is knowing this guy and just being so thrown by what he's done - and of course having to help my other friend navigate what the hell she is going to do as she currently lives in the same house as him. Anyone, anyone's thoughts? Has this happened to you or someone you know? How've you dealt with it? It's a timely debate what with so much being in the media and around the world on this subject. I've even been working on a media project on this exact subject of drink and s.assault, so you'd think I'd be ready to deal with it at least in a way. But nope.

I love this story . Very clever ending as well. I wish there was a sequel

I don't really know anything about this historical era - so seeing which characters made it into the history books (or the gallery of the portraits) made me think there must be a few twists and turns if Mark keeps up the series . [but im hopeless at dates]

I went to the London portrait gallery today - got to see a few of the faces from this series . Was very weird walking around and thinking of Granger.