Silvertomcat

This is completely off-topic, I realise, but the answer is ... yes, and that's all I'm saying *cheeky grin* I'm flattered that my first topic here is still around. It's very enlightening to read the different points of view. Additionally it changes my perception of some of the stories I'm reading. One of the things that haven't been mentioned (as far as I can tell) is the degree of explicitness in the story. If an author is describing every sparkle of a car's paintjob or each little item of junk stuffed under the seats, it's not that much of a stretch to add the seat belts. If she or he is just going for "they got in the car and drove off into the sunset, together", that's a different story (pardon the pun) Similarly, some stories call for flowery expressions like "the stars smiled down on their union"... but others list every ridge the lovers nibble, each nerve ending that sings out, every crease to be licked. In such stories, a condom isn't too much of an imposition, is it ? To return to the original topic : I finally found a one liner that fits ! "suit up your astronaut before he boldly goes where no man has gone before" too bad you can only use it once *wink*

I'm just being my evil self when I ask if the migraines are Panhead-induced or not *cheeky grin* In fact I completely agree : it's a lot of fun to be in contact with an author of a novel you like. And it's a nice bonus that Gabriel is such a nice guy, with a great ass to boot *saucy wink*

outoftheashes raises an interesting point : in Stonegate Stables the condom debate might already be over and done with. Personally I haven't any friends that I'd feel so comfortable with that I'd assume they only have sex with a regular set of partners, all of whom I know as well. Either my friends are more horny or I'm less trusting in nature *wink* I've wondered if perhaps the rural setting plays a role : if there's less opportunity, perhaps there is less random sex. As far as I understood it, though, Stonegate Stables isn't really rural in setting, eh ? Sean repeatedly tells us he's got his plot of land when there wasn't a Starbuck's within a 30 mins radius.

Well, you hit the nail on the head : I plan too much about the effects and consequences of what I create. I'm learning how to think less *grin* Also, I feel I should perhaps elaborate on the way I draw : I look for reference photos online, and while I'm working, I'll often check my mail, read a Stonegate chapter during a pause, find some more references... I guess that that wasn't the brightest thing to do, when I reached Matt's chapter, eh? I've had this intensity of fiction before --- I remember being thirteen with Marion Zimmer Bradley's Mists of Avalon in a hot summer, but every time I looked up, I was surprised that there weren't grey mists all around.

Duncan, I try to make the titles i give to my topics as clear as possible. I'm sorry if you still got shocked --- shall I hold your hand and comfort you ? *sly wink* I'm glad you approve, Tracy : I thought maybe I'd gone overboard ;-)

But am I really the only one who feels this way ? Matt is cute, and traumatised, and talented, and confused yadda yadda yadda. couldn't he at least have been dumb ? *frustrated, jealous grunt* As it is, I get so annoyed that I stop my own drawings. And then when I think of how his dumbness / naievity / inexperience led to Ray... I feel so horrible that I'd begrudge him these little things. *blush* Do you all get touched by a story to such a degree ? How do you deal with that ?

as S-E-A-N so delicately put it, mister *grin* Making it fast and dirty by mutual consent... are those the criteria for a f**K ? To me personally, there's still a lot of love involved in that, no ? A f*ck... I don't know, doesn't that sound m-e-a-n-e-r than a quick shag because you're both aching for relief ? *puzzled*

for a variety of reasons I don't write stories myself. One thing I have always wondered about, though, is whether or not authors do sex research. *grin* Some scenes are pretty descriptive, of pretty weird things... I'm for instance thinking of Gabriel Morgan's Stonegate Stables where Sean's an accomplished competitive rider in a tight uniform...which inspires his lover to want him on a horse. Gabriel Morgan's pretty clever with the details he provides, so the scene feels very real, but how did he find out? Surely he hasn't got a horse on stand-by ? *evil grin* Same goes for sci-fi sex in zero gravity, but I'm also thinking of more mundane settings. Frantic glad-to-be-alive sex in the muddy trenches of some war, for instance.

Some posters above have said that authors write to express their creativity, not to get on their soapboxes and preach. I respect that, even though I'll still pester them, if the mood strikes me *wink* I think several posts here fit in with my concept of the context authors can, should and do create, in my opinion. By writing about cool characters who do normal things, and who have safer sex as part of their routine, authors can demonstrate to all readers, be they impressionable or experienced that safer sex is an acceptable reality. Look, all I'm trying to say is : statistics aren't everything. Ain't that the truth ? *grin* I was 24 when I decided to explore. I used the internet in many ways : I didn't feel quite brave enough to just step into a gay bar and find a guy, so I turned to dating sites. I also used internet to learn the meaning of code like FF, GWM, GSOH, watersports... Eventuallly I figured that "vanilla" was the code I needed for my first time. I read up on safety tips for internet dating : double check information (don't call me, give me your number and I'll call you to see if your number's correct), meet in a public place near a taxi stand, inform a friend and pick a time when you'll get in touch with this friend again... I had also read up on STDs : what's out there, how does it transmit, how frequent is each STD... And, last but not least, I'd read up on the actual sex. Given my late blooming, I didn't want to rely on some long dormant instinct, so I needed solid info on tactics, positions, techniques. All that preparation stood me in good stead, and all in all, my first time was all I'd hoped for, and more. The only downside : safer sex. From the beginning I'd had to insist on it myself. By the time we got to round three (the shower scene) I was starting to feel awkward --- he seemed so casual about it, was I being neurotic/hypochondriac/silly/... ? This doubt was driven home that night by all the stories I'd read : those authors had helped me with descriptions of positions and techniques, but almost all of them dropped the condoms. With my insistence on safe sex, I felt like a minority of one. Mightn't authors have changed that ? I think this is a good moment to point out that the stories collected on gayauthors.org are different in nature than those on most other sites like 'the nifty archive'. I feel that here, many more authors than average write---relevantly.

Several posters seem to agree that it's not an author's job to create role models... I think I agree with that. At the same time, I feel it's not possible to publish gay fiction online and ignore the fact that those stories will pop up in some one's early exploration. It certainly did in mine. I think that authors of gay e-fiction do have a responsability to create a context with their stories. This is also a topic of discussion in Gabriel Morgan's forum. Interesting things have been said there... and since Gabriel's the one that lead me here, I'd like to steal a moment to encourage you all to check out his stories *cheeky grin*

In chapter nine, the guys are discussing all the meanings of f*ck : noun, verb, adverb, constituent... I want to limit the guys' discussion to sexual activity. A f*ck, according to Dylan, is any event in which cock A goes into arse B. Wade maintains that making love is an insertion of said cock into said arse, but with romantic feelings between the partners. Sean demonstrates (to his partner, and to us, the voyeuristic readers *wink*) that sometimes the physical sensations take so much attention OR that sometimes emotions other than tender love come into play --- the result is that sex between partners becomes a f*ck.

I feel that the responsability for and final say over the content of a story should lie with the author. Anything else, to me, is just a slippery slope towards censorship. And we all know that two wrongs don't make a right, eh ? Kit's post was quite thought provoking. In the end I decided it comes down to plot : some things are a plot point, some things aren't. If a story mentions rape, generally it's a plot point : the attack, the recovery, the aftermath... Some movies, think of "Babette's feast" are about the luxury of food and then the characters spend a lot of time eating, cooking, shopping. In most gay romantic stories sex and eroticism is a major plot point, whether the author depicts it graphically or not. I think it's fair to argue that those authors don't want their readers to think "and then the characters go uhmpf uhmpf uhmpf, and wham bang ejaculation, in a condom evidently, because that's what all gay men do" after they've been describing the looks the smiles the first touch... Frankly, a lot of authors, Gabriel included, go to great lengths to paint the scene very vividly. I found myself in the same position as Duncan Ryder : it's my first time, I'm awkward and hesitant as it is... then the night gets hotter and the moment gets closer... and suddenly this guy wants to proceed without a condom. Now, are condoms that much of a damper on the mood ? Is he so hot for me he's willing to play russian roulette with my health ? That first time I thought it's because he knows I'm a virgin and he's quite sure of his own status... Later on, I meet guys who want the same thing, while it's clear that neither of us are virgins. So I elaborate my questions *grin* are condoms such an inhibition to gay guys ? are condoms such an inhibition to gay authors ? ps : my apologies to Gabriel --- if you look at my grousing in this, my first topic in your forum, you must think I'm not the loyal fan that I am. *blushes*

I'm feeling suitably chastized now - not only did I post my topic in the wrong forum, it seems I lack any understanding of the basic meaning of fiction. *wink* Seriously, though, I don't think anyone will ever really think they might be Harry Potter's younger cuter stronger brother and anyone with half a brain knows what the odds are about inheriting millions of dollars. I'm just wondering about the ideals being portrayed : it's natural to want to be handsome, so that's an escapist exaggeration that I understand. The desire for 20cm cocks is not one I really understand, but I've come across it in real life enough to know it's real. Is barebacking every author's secret dream then ? I'm looking forward to more discussion, even though my original intention for this topic was a collection of one liners *smile*

I'm fairly new to this site, although I recognise several authors from elsewhere. It's fantastic to see you all gathered here, along with this forum for questions and remarks. *applauds* I saw that there're several discussions on how sweet/serendipitous/unexpected/... the first meeting of two characters was - so many authors are great with pick-up lines and dialogue. However, as I read through more and more of the stories posted here, I couldn't help but notice that explicit depictions of safer sex are as rare on gayauthors.org as they are anywhere else on the net. Personally I believe that art has social relevance, either by idealism or by criticism e-fiction can be art, even though the establishment is wary of the chosen medium So, if you have a great one-liner to inspire your character/your guy to suit up, I'd like to hear it. Safer sex scenes that go beyond ten thousand repetitions of "he then rolled the rubber down his throbbing manhood and plunged in the pulsing orifice of love" are welcome too *grin*

While I was leafing through "Stonegate Stables" again, I noticed that the second tableau of the first chapter culminates in : [sean] fogged the glossy piano lid with my moans. Eventually [Vincent] built up a rhythm, stroking me in time with his thrusts. We came together, him in me, and me in the kitchen towel he'd thoughtfully brought along. This seems to be a recurring trend in gay fiction... authors seem to dislike writing about safer sex. I've never written a sex scene, so I don't know to which degree the word "condom" trips up their rhythm. I can, however, say that my sexual experiences sour from a guy trying to move forward without a rubber more than they ever do from some fumbling or a discrete pause *cheeky grin* "52 Panhead" does have safer sex, but only in retrospect : the first mention of condoms occurs while Jeff is packing up his house. I should know : I pestered poor Gabriel till he worked in s-o-m-e mention Isn't he a sweetheart ? *wink* Sites like these, stories like these helped me a lot. It was fairly easy to filter out the extremes : no one seriously thinks they might be Harry Potter's younger cuter stronger brother or that George Clooney is waiting in the wings. At least I never did *grin* I do remember feeling quite awkward the first time I had to battle it out with a guy over safer sex, though. I'd just lost my virginity, we were in the shower out of reach of any supplies. He kind of wrestled me into a corner, trapped between his back and the wall. He tried to get a bare ride, mumbling about regular plasma donations in order to get free check ups from the Red Cross. I don't think I'd have said to him "Gabriel always has Sean and Vincent play safe, just like Evan and Jeff" but some more role models might have helped, I think. Have authors got some kind of responsability towards their readers ? Is e-fiction an art form with social relevance ? Should the author's notes / disclaimer at the start of an average chapter suffice ? What do you think ?

I suppose that puts me in my young and stupider years, huh? I think I know someone who's heading straight for a spanked bottom *evil grin* I'm not saying that Stonegate Stables was bad (on the contrary, it's what's got me hooked on you, Gabriel *wink*) or that the bedhopping was wrong. I'm just observing that in my personal experience, it's rarely as...sweetly innocent as it is for Sean and Vincent. Well, I bake brownies for my friends, perhaps there really are guys who shag their friends into paradise as a token of their affection. *grin* Perhaps that's a solution for both of the dilemmas eh? Kenny makes Raf purr in bed, satisfying you that Kenny really is a star and removing my doubts about Raf's...abilities. How about it babe? *wink* As far as triads go, or double-dating within the couples... their backstory is sufficiently elaborate, I think, to make a working relationship between all of them p-l-a-u-s-i-b-l-e. I do feel it would change the nature of the story : right now, for me, Panhead expresses a realist perspective. Examples are Jeff's old tricks showing up to haunt him, or Evan's past, rather than a secret mission or a fabulous inheritance. These guys are insanely hot and quite special, but basically you CAN meet them somewhere, anywhere. Unlike, say, meeting George Clooney and having him fall for you, forsaking all women till the end of time *evil grin* Although it would be interesting to see how Evan Jeff Rafael and Kenny would develop into superhuman guys who manage to do e-ve-ry-thing a gay guy's ever dreamt of, I'm more interested in seeing them as they are now.

In the context of your story I have considered the various results from the accident. It'll come as no surprise that I like the commitment the guys are making, even though they're hot enough to get hit on a lot *grin* I must confess that I have wondered if they would have grown into capable gay men if it weren't for the different focus thrust upon them and everyone around them : Evan, Rafael and Kenny had to change, while their family and friends got a rude awakening that being gay isn't exactly significant when you see what can happen to your child / friend / brother... This point was clearly driven home by Luke, eh? At one point I thought that Rafael and Kenny stuck together to avoid having to deal with dates, but that was addressed well enough in a previous chapter. Right now they just feel natural. In a private message a while ago, I asked Gabriel about the nature and texture of Rafael's scars, but that's more to do with my attraction to the traces of time and life on a man's body. I ask the same questions in real life, though, so I don't feel "ignore what you don't understand" applies to me. (Just as an aside, I always try to be kind and appropriate - eg a cuddle in bed, rather than a loud conversation in a crowded elevator *wink*) In general they seem to confirm my initial judgement about guys : (strikes all examples as inappropriately personal). While I'm typing this, I'm suddenly wondering about non-physical scars... I seem to remember some vague references to Evan's slutting around for a while. Perhaps there's always a reason like this for the way guys are ? In that case my harshness over their sexual-butterfly-behaviour was perhaps uncalled for *doubtful*

We don't really know if Rafael is any good in bed, do we ? *evil grin* I'd like to say that I wouldn't, never, no no no... but I think, realistically speaking, I might be more than a little tempted. Personally, that's one of the things that make me prefer Panhead to Stonegate : despite being hot enough to get anyone into bed (no surprises there) these guys still know how to commit to a relationship - a raretity, I've found (in the 15 months or so that I've been open to a relationship). Stonegate, to me, contained a bit more echoes of the body-beautiful standard : the guys there are friendly etc etc, but at times it felt like the road to their respect and help leads through their bed. To be completely fair, they offer help first and then grow close enough that shagging seems the next logical step. I think it's personal experiences that make me a bit wary of situations like that *grin*