Westie

Reference to Haverleigh.... well that one is a LITTLE naughty. The target village today is spelled differently in its modern form... "Hatherleigh". The spelling was only formalised in 1850 or so. With regards to heraldic symbols, it is very important to note that these relate to your BLOODLINE, not your TITLE. The heraldic ornaments associated with the family stem not from them being Bridgemonts, but from being Grangers. With that in mind, the distinctive "bridgemont blue" and other regalia associated with his family will remain, but may be enhanced. Actually, with the Duke having the garter, his coat of arms will certainly change. The Marquessate of Preston and the Barony of Haverleigh are indeed fictitious.... however that doesn't mean that there wasn't a great deal of thought and reasoning that went into both of them based on some historical rumination Note on the lands and estate that "come with the Dukedom". I have mentioned this before, but it is worth saying again that in the peerage of England, titles were not linked to land ownership. And so while they had a territorial designation ("Duke of Suffolk") that didn't actually mean you had any right to lands in in that geography. This is at odds with some places in Europe, where the owner of some land had a title by virtue of ownership. The same is true of certain types of Laird in Scotland. So no, there is no need for land, estates, residences etc, unless the Duke chooses to put down some roots in those places.

Just on the titles. Probably the most famous holder of the title "Duke of Suffolk" was Charles Brandon. Some of you might recognise the name, especially if you watched the Tudors. He of course, was played by the mouthwateringly handsome Henry Calvill, who we now know to be superman This title was chosen because, becoming extinct on it's 3rd Creation (when Henry Grey was executed), there was no risk that it would conflict with a real life historical figure that George might encounter. I don't imagine that the Old Earl (or Duke as he now is) looks anything like Henry Calvill, but why would I let a little thing like that stop me from posting a picture?

I think we need an INDEPENDENT verification of this. Since Paya and I are also in London.... I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of the GA community to come along and do a taste test I know, I know. Im Selfless

I'm still waiting for my Wall-mart sized paycheck.... Ahem, anyway.... The quote is actually: “We are pleased to offer you, our beloved Governor and Constable of Windsor, special precedence to sit at Our right side, alongside Our beloved cousin, the Duke of Suffolk.” So note that what the King is offering Granger is the right, in the order of precedence, to sit with his father, the Duke of Suffolk (the new name for the Earl). The order of precedence is a MASSIVE thing at court. It dictates where you sit at a state banquet. What the King has done here is grant George a special privilege to sit with the dukes. This means that although Granger is only a Viscount, he gets special treatment. Why is this important? Well, it means that Granger ranks ahead of his Brother, the new Marquess of Preston, even though his title is technically less senior. It is a very special mark of favour from the King, and in many ways a very public snub to Freddie. When Mark and I were discussing the new Titles for George's father, the subject of Freddie leapfrogging George in precedence came up quite early on. it would have been unthinkable to promote George to a Marquess at this time, and so this "special precedence" was the best way to ensure George was treated "ahead" of his brother. Stepping back Slightly, we should note that the Duke's new titles are: Duke of Suffolk, Marquess of Preston, Earl of Bridgemont, Viscount Blankford and Baron Haverleigh. We have never known before what "baronage" the Earl had, but he now has three more "places" with a link to them. Suffolk, Preston and Haverleigh. It would be interesting to hear people speculate on those names and why they were chosen - I'd love to hear thoughts on that Anyway, Mark has confirmed that there IS a new story. For one, I am really looking forward to that, but of course that doesn't mean we can't continue to talk here in the meantime. There's lots to discuss.

This is the first story that I was lucky enough to do some Beta reading for Mark. The amount of research that goes on behind the scenes is astounding for a man who works full time and also has a family. This is the longest of the bridgemont series, and it is also in my mind the best. It has the intricacies of CAP, while maintaining a historical character and setting. I knew when I first read this last chapter that some people might be a little disappointed that certain aspects were left unresolved, but the really important point here is that in real life, very few of us have clear stages where all our problems are resolved at once. There is always some overlap. For me, it brings the realism to the story, and while acknowledging that the "Odyssey" is over, the overall story with George is not. We should also note that while some of the "open points of interest" listed by Ricky, Sandrewn and others, are of great interest to those people, you need to wonder of how much importance those points are to the story. Again, we none of us go through life getting all the answers. Some of these loose ends might be around for a while. That said, there will be some excitement on the horizon - I suspect that nobody has guessed correctly the eventual setting for the NEXT story, and Mark has a surprise up his sleeve there. I'm sure there will be more open questions, and more to wonder about. Mark's modus operandi is to lay out a number of threads and then tie them together as we go through the book, riding a crescendo of events, emotions, intrigue and fate. Odyssey took us around the world - quite literally - and touched upon a huge number of historical events. It held our rapt attention even if at times Mark couldn't post as often as we would have liked. Suspense fuelled this story, which is why I like the format of posting chapter by chapter. If I bought this in a novel, I would enjoy it from cover to cover in an afternoon, but then it would be done. What we have here is a book that we all enjoyed over the course of a year and more. Importantly, we enjoyed it together, reading, then commenting, then debating. I would wager we all learned a little more about history - that spark of some topic in the book that spurred us to do some reading on our own. There are many things that are awesome about this series - the characters, the setting, the stories etc. But the very BEST thing is the community. Regular commenters like DaddyDaveK, Ricky, Sandrewn, Kookie, Jim and Centex, author feedback from Mark, occasional acerbic wit from Sharon. I have to say that I am looking forward to the next book a lot, but I am looking forward to the forum more. And with that, I have a day of work ahead of me that involves schmoozing people at Europe's largest iGaming conference, following by getting paralytically drunk on the company pay. It is indeed a very hard life West

There is a certain tribalism in this forum that makes people fall into camps. Those people can be "team Will". They can be (very forcefully) Anti-Will. They can be pro-Wade or pro-Matt. You would be forgiven for thinking that Will is either the anti-christ, or the most perfect teen that ever lived, depending on who you listen to. We seem to have similar viewpoints over who is/isn't the guilty party in the breakup of Matt and Wade. Things are rarely as black and white as all that. Will has some good points. He can also be infuriating and immature and has one hell of a temper. He also has - perhaps - emotional baggage that explains some of this behaviour, but for all that it would be wrong to try and defend the absolute extremes of his outbursts as valid. I think you have to take a more circumspect view, that we have a guy who essentially "good" in his heart, but that under certain conditions has trouble controlling his anger, and is blind to "where the line is". And while that behaviour is "explainable", that doesn't mean that it is "excusable". We have Matt, who has screwed Will over (the extent to which that should matter is of course open for some debate). But when I suggest the idea that Matt himself is "damaged" - all the "pro-Will" camp get very defensive. But let me ask you this; the alternative is that Matt is hell bent on burning every bridge he has. Even if Matt is weak willed and stupid, do you imagine he does that unless he is seriously screwed up too? I think some people here need to remember that not everyone's motives in every situation are black and white; not every motive is one we are aware of or understand even as we are doing stuff; not everyone strategises and thinks before they act. More too, we need to remember that some of these people are YOUNG. They might have flashes of maturity, but they don't have the luxury of experience to help guide their decisions. Screwing up BIG and screwing up EARLY might be the making of them in later life.

I'm keeping my mouth shut for now.... but will come back after the next chapter is posted for a post-mortem...

So this is really interesting. We see that there are some people who agree with me about a theme of revenge. And the general consensus is a land based adventure. I think the only certainty is that if every single member of GA were to comment here, the fact is that Mark would manage to craft a surprise for everyone. Which is what I find truly awesome. For example, when I saw in the last book that Mark was taking Granger around the world, I posted that it was a shame that there would be absolutely no way to get him to the Battle of the Nile. Duh. With regards to Ricky's comment on research... It's incredibly obvious that Mark researches a lot for this whole series. I think a political intrigue would actually be much harder to research, because Granger would be out of his comfort zone. Don't forget that much of the research about life onboard a ship is already done - there is a built up body of knowledge on that score. Putting Granger into his Wife's realm would actually need a great deal more work, I would think. Thought it might help you create some drama. Just doing my bit with some heavy lifting

Ahhh, OK. Interesting. HMS Pandora was actually launched in 1779 (not 99), with later versions launched in 1780, and 1806. They were all relatively small ships though. HMS Champion was also launched in 1779. Not sure where you were looking for the '99 dates for these two, but I think they are mis-sourced. But that's a REALLY AWESOME idea to check real ships launched on those dates.. By that account, a great name for the next story would be HMS Apollo. Named after the Greek God, the ship was a 36 gun 5th rate. A ship named after a greek god with an awesome body does seem appropriate for Granger.

Oh go on.... give us a clue as to why "HMS Pandora" or "Champion"? From my point of view, I would like to see something like "Foe's Vengeance" or "Divergence". I would like the theme of revenge and jealousy to be played out much more in the next story, particularly as I think that would be the most realistic.

I am travelling to Belgrade tomorrow, having spent all last week in the dreary north west UK. The week after I am attending a major trade show. I'm very excited though by the end of this story and, perhaps, in time, the start of the next story. So, while we are waiting for the chapter's to make the final rounds, let's bring the last conversation inwards a bit. Before we were looking for predictions for the next story... now I'm asking, What do you think the last chapters are going to bring us, and what do you think Mark will leave open for the next book? Also, challenge time.... What do you think the next book should be called?

The very best of all the books is Bloodlines, and I am a huge fan of the "Matt" that we met in this story, if not the "Matt" we see in future stories. The best one to start with, being a conventional sort of guy, for me is CAP itself. Start at the beginning. Of course, if you really want entertainment, also read Mark's Bridgemont series, which is in my view Mark's best work since "on the Mark" (unfinished).

Wow, that's an interesting question. Incredibly interesting, because the problem we have here is that we have hit a period where British dominance on the oceans was almost absolute, and with that there really wasn't much going on for a significant amount of time. The next really exciting thing is the battle of Copenhagen, and it doesn't happen until 1801 (with a few other things in between as Mark has noted previously, but nothing he could get Granger to realistically). So, that puts us in a little quandary, because we have to decide now whether this is a story about one man's attempt to live in the navy in an era that did not forgive homosexuality, or is this a story about a man, and his journey through LIFE, being a homosexual in in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century? I happen to think its actually the latter, and that this is a story about George and his life, which happens to be lived at the moment in the Navy, but has many other facets such as being a member of the aristocracy, being a courtier and importantly, being a father and husband - as well as a friend. In that case, I do not think that this story is dependant on the idea of George being at sea. I think the story is dependant on the ability of the author to weave an adventure with George as the central character. Yes, George not being at sea means he is more bound to his wife, and there will naturally be less of the graphic encounters we know and love.... but this isn't Nifty, and I have to say that it's not the sex that keeps me coming back for more. So... I do not think Mark needs, necessarily, to get George back to sea immediately. Personally, I would thoroughly enjoy a drama heavy on the political intrigue... but Mark and I have actually discussed this point, and Mark felt at the time like he would not do such a story justice because of his lack of knowledge in this area. I personally think Mark could write about almost anything and make it engaging, but as an author you have to feel comfortable in your own skin. The question then is WHEN, for the next story. I think it would be reasonable to suggest 9 months as a period for George to be landbound. I personally would like to see some of that frustration come out. There are certain aspects of this that could be very exciting - you have some very powerful political forces pushing in a number of directions that might leave George feeling frustrated. Might Caroline want her husband to be home for a while, and thus work behind the scenes to slow his prisoner exchange? I think a 3 - 6 month break is ample time for us to rejoin George just as the frustration is setting in, but soon enough that we see him back on the ocean fairly quickly. Though don't forget how much of Odyssey was set on land before George finally got off to sea and it wasn't really that much hardship. Next question is WHERE. As I already noted, militarily, there's not much going on in the SEA. So if we want adventure, George is going to need some kind of MISSION. Be is diplomatic or something clandestine for the military, he needs something to do. I would like to see that lead him either to Russia or back to the Indies and Australia. Russia is my first choice because we haven't met them yet, and they were much more fascinating back in the golden age of the Tsar (Catherine the Great had died only in 1796). We know that the next decade in the story will be dominated by war with the French. I would therefore like to see a last hurrah with George against some other set of characters.

Feel free to start a conversation if there's a lull No need to stand on ceremony and wait for the herd to pile in

John, 8:32 I wouldn't say the bible is the best book to quote from as a source of authority in this forum

You think that you can hide your laziness by giving a compliment and getting me to do the hard work? Yeah.... that kinda does the trick We don't, repeat DON'T, have anything to implicate Spencer in conspiracy. I am almost completely certain that Spencer is not involved - all his actions were completely in line with how you would expect the first lord of the admiralty to act. Spencer treated the Jackson situation in an absolutely correct manner - it may not have been as fast, or as decisive as we would like, but he followed all appropriate protocols. If there is anything we do know about Spencer, it's that he lived his life according to certain strict societal and legal "rules". They were his comfort zone. I also think you are wrong about Mann, Wilcox and Fox. We know that the Guild is a merchant/commercial organisation. None of these men have ever shown the slightest interest in Money. While a bribe or two "for comfort" is feasible, I don't think any of these men are powerful or influential enough, clever enough or even rich enough to foster such a scheme. Moreover, their use as pawns would be limited. What possible use to the guild would two discredited and ridiculed admirals be? What use would Fox be? He is in the political wilderness at this point (more on this to follow). Actually, Mr Fox has recently suffered a disgrace. The Prime Minister (Pitt) has had him removed from the Privy Council, and was spending increasing time at his wife's country mansion in Surrey. He had made a particularly odious (for the time) toast at his birthday party that had offended the King, because it suggested that the King's sovereignty was derived from the people and parliament - whereas the King is "Deo Gratias" which in this context translates as "By grace of God". In the next few months of limited action, the Channel is the place to be. That's where the limited skirmishes are and more importantly, he needs to be around for the Battle of Copenhagen in April 1801. If it takes 9 months to do a prisoner exchange, there aren't too many places Mark can send Granger in order to get him back in time (though I said that about the Nile). Also, we don't know for sure that Granger will be assigned to a fleet at all. He now has a reputation as an envoy and diplomat. I could easily see him being sent to Russia to negotiate the Anglo Russian alliance leading to the invasion of Holland in order to restore the Stadtholder. As I've said before, for those who think Granger is going to get an instant command, they will surely be disappointed. Granger is going to have a long wait. It remains to be seen whether the author makes US wait WITH him by telling a land based story, or whether he will skip on in time. We know that the King is taking a "renewed interest" in The Earl (no "e" on the end), because he HAS given him some not inconsiderable honours. The Earl is a member of the Privy Council, and even more importantly he has received the Order of the Garter. This is a major honour - there are only 24 members of the order (considerably less than the Privy Council) with personal access to the King. We also know that George's appointment as Constable and Governor of Windsor is a major office, with much prestige. I would suspect that we will see further honours to the Earl, as really further honour's to George depend on a promotion for his father. it is very unlikely that George would be given a peerage outranking that of his Father.

So, my first post in a while, but I would like to pose this. Everyone is excusing some of Will's more unacceptable behaviour as a symptom of grief. As well they should because I know from experience that Grief can hit you hard and you can end up doing things that normally you wouldn't dream of. After a traumatic death, this can be even worse. With that in mind, I'm wondering why everyone is so quick to condemn Matt. He shunned Wade, and went on a hell-for-leather guy-fest that culminated in someone completely off limits. Does this not strike anyone of some classic Grief at work? We have a guy who is immediately shunning intimacy with the one person who knows him best, and is seeking release through casual hookups. He is mad at the world, at fate, and at society in general. Give this guy a rule and he's going to break it. I'm very surprised that this did not immediately occur to JP.

The role is as part of the household, not a military position - it is not a secondment. Whether or not he resigned is another matter and largely depends on Spencer or the King. There were many members of the aristocracy who nominally held military positions without actively engaging them. However, as an officer not on active duty, he would be on half pay at the very most.

Interestingly, grapefruit is also a trigger to most forms of inflammation.... so if you suffer from any kind of inflammatory illness, eating grapefruit can not only negate the drugs you are taking (as you mentioned), but can also aggravate the inflammation.

You mean, mistakes like saying "Sight" instead of "site" ?

This year has been an awesome year so far, and we have some really great plans for the next 6-9 months that are really going to change our lives for the better. I am so STOKED for 2014. For a start, I feel like I'm finally getting a grip on my health issues. The big thing here is that I'm using conventional drugs to control pain and stuff, but then I'm using some complementary therapies to help me reduce the reliance on those drugs and improve the condition for the better. For example, did you know that the spice Turmeric has been shown in some studies to be around 3-4 times more effective than ibuprofen as an anti inflammatory? I didn't believe it at first - because this one study wasn't really comprehensive enough to be accepted as medical fact - but Turmeric is also an anti-inflammatory in both Traditional Chinese Medicine and also Ayurvedic Medicine. So I thought.... why not give it a go? It's early days but it really does seem to be working very well. So well in fact that I think I will be able to use it as a partial replacement for some of my current prescription drugs. This has the advantage of cutting out some rather nasty side effects. I also think I'm getting the balance right with diet and making sure I'm getting enough vitamins etc. The most important thing for me is actually absorption - I not only need to make sure my diet is balanced, but also that I can reap the benefits. So it's important to make sure I have a responsible amount of fat in my diet. Many vitamins and minerals and other compounds are fat soluable, and so a 'no' fat diet actually hinders your ability to absorb these. A responsible amount of fat (even just milk fats) are hugely beneficial in other ways. On a different front, we have set ourselves a 'financial' challenge that culminates in our wedding in 2015 (hopefully), which for a goals and achievement oriented person like me is actually quite exciting as a journey, as well as a destination. Speaking of Journeys... we have also booked a "summer tour" in June/July that will see us back in Paya's hometown, then in Austria, then through Hungary (seeing most of it only out of the train window), into Slovakia, and then back to London via the Czech Republic again. I'm really excited about this trip - not least Austria, because I'm beginning to really like Vienna. On the work front, I have a busy 2-3 months ahead with yet more time in the North of England, more time in Belgrade (Serbia), but hopefully after things settle down I will have a calmer few months here in London. Back on the personal horizon, I have been looking at a little pet project for me to "tinker" with as a way to relax and to pass the time at airports and travelling. As many of you know, I have an avid interest in certain aspects of British history. At the same time, my job and work background is in IT. I have been road testing some "wiki" software, and so my pet project (if I get it off the ground) is going to be half technology (setting up the Wiki on a server, a bit of web design and basically playing around), and half putting in "content" on those areas that I have some specialist knowledge. These are areas that are under-researched on Wikipedia for example. I will probably never publish it for the outside world, but I will have some fun doing it, even if it does seem to be a little geeky. Which brings everyone up to speed on 'me'. Which, as it was the purpose of this blog, also makes it the end of this blog. Happy new year everyone West.

Did you really just make a direct historical parallel between Admiral Nelson and Cher? This just got too gay even for me.... {the video from "turn back time" notwithstanding}

Well, Firstly, on the quote you have from me, I said Napoleon looked on helplessly. I meant to Say Nelson. They both start with "N", easy mistake to make. And you are of course right with the Siege of Acre... I had recalled this as a minor event from a Navy point of view... but re-reading the detail it does look a little more interesting than that. Of course, there is court intrigue to have some fun with... Nelson is about to cause quite a scandal in society ...

Well, my point was more that while GRANGER would want a Frigate, there will be a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle power games going on that might work to secure him a first rate, and a posting to the home fleet. While a frigate would be great for us readers, a life less "adventurous" might be something others would fight for - friends and enemies alike (though for differing reasons). A Granting a Frigate is far from a mortal lock. With regards to the fleet, there is very little action in 1799 of note. There is the battle of Abukir, but basically that involved Napoleon looking on helplessly as the Ottomans surrendered to the French. Other than that, not much excitement goes on until the Battle of Copenhagen (April 1801) and the Algeciras Campaign (June-July 1801). These were the last sea-battles of the War of the First Coalition. Of course, we don't know what will take place "off story". In CAP, the latest story jumped 6 months after its predecessor ended. If Granger is on land, the crowning glory for us might be that we don't have to see it.

Apologies. One of my (endearing ) Faults is that I rarely pay attention to Children. Either in real-life or in stories. As a daughter of a Viscount, the grand-Daughter of one of the premier Earl's of England on one side, and Lord Heathford on the other, she wouldn't exactly be without advantages. More to the point, she will have suitors queuing for her hand, especially with a chunky dowry. It is unlikely - for the sake of honour if nothing else - that the prince would have anything to do with the child. W