Fair weather allies are more dangerous than religious zealots, at least you know the zealots want you gone or dead. The fair weather allies will betray you if they "feel" its better choice.

Fair weather allies are more dangerous than religious zealots, at least you know the zealots want you gone or dead. The fair weather allies will betray you if they "feel" its better choice.

I know what you mean. It's the subtle and subconscious homophobia we need to be aware of, not the overt kind. Because no one can recognize that it's wrong.

Fair weather allies are more dangerous than religious zealots, at least you know the zealots want you gone or dead. The fair weather allies will betray you if they "feel" its better choice.

Fair weather allies are "more dangerous" than religious zealots? Come on get real.

Fair weather allies may indeed "betray you" but they won't actually murder you.

Unlike zealots - religious or otherwise - who will and who do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gary_Matson_and_Winfield_Mowder

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/06/gayrights.iraq

....and too many more to list

Fair weather allies are "more dangerous" than religious zealots? Come on get real.

Fair weather allies may indeed "betray you" but they won't actually murder you.

Unlike zealots - religious or otherwise - who will and who do

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gary_Matson_and_Winfield_Mowder

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/aug/06/gayrights.iraq

 

....and too many more to list

I think what he meant was when it comes to people within an already developed society. For example, in "gay friendly" Canada, people with overt hatred towards gays are never taken seriously and are quickly shot down.

Sadly the reality is that even in developed societies like Britain there will always be zealots who would like to and do kill gays - like the London gay pub nail bomber link I posted above.

Then there's this one from 2011 where a religious zealot emailed this to the UK Stonewall CEO:

"With regard to the recent so-called victory that evil sexual weirdos Steven Preddy and Martyn Hall had against decent law-abiding B&B owners Peter and Hazelmary Bull. It is my duty to inform your evil organisation that, despite what the government says, according to the holy Christian Bible, homosexuality is in fact illegal. I have therefore decided to embark upon a campaign of terror against you Chief Executive Dame Ben Summerskill and all those that seek to support the so-called human rights of the Homosexual community. It is going to give me great pleasure to put a bullet in the head of Dame Ben Summerskill, Steven Preddy and Martyn Hall and any other homosexual vermin that I have the misfortune to come across. I suggest that the people mentioned in this email and indeed all evil bigoted homosexual scum start making their funeral arrangements."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/08/threatened-gay-rights-campaigner-sentence

So, yeah, I'll take a fair weather friend in preference to a zealot any day

Zombie, of course you would want a fair weather ally right now versus a zealot if one wants to blow you up and the other doesn't like you pink scarf , but a fair weather ally can be swayed over to the other side as well over time. People you consider as friends could progressively start distancing themselves from you due to their change in taste, fear of your behaviors, or other "perceived" characteristics that make them less inclined to be your ally.

A zealot is someone we know wants us dead or gone, we know where their heart is and with the proper care, we can either avoid them or stop them from taking action.

A fair weather ally is someone that might seem like a friend, you may even count on their support for Tom Daley's wet T-Shirts sales, but when the chips are down and you may need them to help you keep your adopted kids, allow you to stay with your partner at a hospital/hospice, or fight to keep your job due to homophobia with your boss, can you trust them to support you? or will they swing over to the other side?

California's Prop 8 taught us that despite the support, fair weather allies are malleable. Popular support has to be irrevocable and final to make any long term changes.

a fair weather ally can be swayed over to the other side as well over time. People you consider as friends could progressively start distancing themselves from you due to their change in taste, fear of your behaviors, or other "perceived" characteristics that make them less inclined to be your ally.

 

A zealot is someone we know wants us dead or gone, we know where their heart is and with the proper care, we can either avoid them or stop them from taking action.

I know what the terms mean. But you said in your original post

"Fair weather allies are more dangerous than religious zealots"

and that is patently untrue.

The worst a fair weather friend can do to you is disappoint / annoy / hurt / let down / embarrass / inconvenience... you get the idea.  

I can live with that.

But I can't live with what the zealot might do - because I might be seriously injured. Or dead. Like the 3 gays killed by the zealot nailbomber David Copeland, or the 100+ wounded or maimed by his cowardly bomb attack.

And if we could, as you say, "stop them from taking action" then we wouldn't have had the London bombings.

And you wouldn't have had the Boston bombings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Copeland

Zombie, danger grows through apathy and most do not recognize apathy like they would a verbally bellicose preacher or his flock..

Under your logic, Rwandan would not have died merely due to cultural antipathy, Cambodia would not have robbed ethnic Chinese people due to social divides under pol pot, and dare I invoke Godwin's fabled law.

People do not all need to be murderers to allow it to happen. All you need is for apathy and an attitude of indifference to win.

I honestly think we're arguing based on an interpretation of which group of people is more dangerous but Idk if that's really the point. From a direct perspective obviously people who directly attack others is more dangerous, but fairweather allies and the uneducated biased lot present a problem and it all needs to be dealt with. Recognizing that homophobia in ANY shape or form is important to abolish it totally. 

When I wrote this blog, I was mainly triggered by people of Canada and how a lot of them claim to be pro-gay but were against progressive human rights movements, such as voicing protestation against the new anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia. 

It made me realize how many people really don't understand what it really means to be a supporter because of their privilege, and how difficult it was for others to recognize that their views were wrong. That is dangerous because it gives religious zealots and other hateful groups incentive to go on doing what they want to do (aka some people in Russia). 

tl;dr: It's all a problem.

What is it they say about good men doing nothing?

I honestly think we're arguing based on an interpretation of which group of people is more dangerous but Idk if that's really the point.

you're right fishie both are dangerous - but in different ways

you're right fishie both are dangerous - but in different ways

Yes, I will watch out for the crazy bombers and Zombie can go after the mindless masses that don't care if we all get shipped off to little camps

I agree, It's different degrees of danger

I agree, It's different degrees of danger

If you'd said that to begin with we wouldn't have had a tiff!

HERE WE GO