I'm not sad he's gone, Crap he put people thru, with his bs is enough, it's a better place with out people like him.

What can you point to that he put people through?

Oh really hmm, first of all, crap he put thru gay kids, I guess what he said about aids was great. He has done nothing good in my eyes.

and what good things did he do?

When you say he put crap thru gay kids, what do you mean? Explain please.

As far as the good that he's done, let's see......

He's led thousands to The Lord, which may or may not mean anything to you, but in my opinion, that's always a good thing. He also founded Liberty University, which is a college I'm planning to apply at. You still haven't said what evil deeds he's perpetrated besides things he's said. What has he done??

He taught towards hatred to me that is. Among these types of uni's tons of homophobes.

Ever thought parents listened to his teachers then put their own kids on the streets, or put them in str8 camps? That is evil.

Some colleges like this don't allow gay kids. Ugh the homophobic remarks I rember from this type of college. yuck.

I agree that he had twisted views...I even said that. I even agree that he was overboard about it, but that didn't make him evil. Also, I never read anything about him saying parents should send their kids to straight camp. If you can find me an article I'll concede the point. But look at it this way::

We frown down on him because he preached intolerance of gays and a womans right to choose, but isn't celebrating his death just as bad as what he did? Do we really want to be on his level? I think we can be better than that. Don't you?

I know nothing about Jerry Falwell except what I've read. He seems to have been a very charismatic speaker, and as a leader of (insert number here) people he didn't personally have to go out gay bashing, or blowing up abortion clinics. His word alone would have been incentive for numerous others to do that for him.

Please don't forget the power of rhetoric, especially rhetoric delivered by a man you believe in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6659457.stm

Actually, I don't believe in Jerry Falwell. I believe in The Father, The Son and The Holy ghost, and he did too. I get a little frustrated when people say Falwell had followers. He might have, but I think he had a parish that followed Christ, just like he did. God is the only sheppard to true Christians, and if any of them act on the word of Jerry Falwell, they're commiting Blashemy, in my eyes.

My main point still remains....it's wrong to celebrate anyone's death, and it drags down the entire gay community.

My main point still remains....it's wrong to celebrate anyone's death, and it drags down the entire gay community.

Agreed. Celebrating any death is wrong ... Hmm, that being said, when I go, I want a HUGE party. I can sit on my cloud (not sure if it's going to be soft and fluffy, or hot and prickly) and earwig the conversations. :ranger:

My main point still remains....it's wrong to celebrate anyone's death, and it drags down the entire gay community.

Agreed. Celebrating any death is wrong ... Hmm, that being said, when I go, I want a HUGE party. I can sit on my cloud (not sure if it's going to be soft and fluffy, or hot and prickly) and earwig the conversations. :ranger:

:pickaxe: :pickaxe: :pickaxe: I'm sure there's going to be a loud roar from the crowd when I go Hopefully there'll be lots of THC floating through the air after my funeral

The world is a much better place with him gone that I have no problem rejoicing. The efforts he undertook, from founding the Moral Majority, to victimization of persons with AIDS, to support of Apartheid, to just merely bearing false witness...

He was no Christian - but merely an opportunist. Some private comments that he has made support this such as "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

Who knows the number of people both here in America, as well as throughout the world, who have died due to his interference in funding AIDS research and education... Who knows the number of gay-bashers who felt that they were in the right, because Falwell says God hates gays and will bless efforts to eliminate lesbians and gays.

Given that Falwell rejoiced in the deaths of so many,

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." And also tried to blame 9/11 on gays, feminists, etc, I won't be mourning his passing, not in the least.

He was opposed to basic freedoms, including the freedoms of equality (including for women), and the separation of Church and State.

I've often pointed out that many of his positions are eerily reminiscent of Osama Bin Laden

The man was a vile hatemongerer. I won't rejoice in his death, but I will say good riddance.

The world is a much better place with him gone that I have no problem rejoicing. The efforts he undertook, from founding the Moral Majority, to victimization of persons with AIDS, to support of Apartheid, to just merely bearing false witness...

 

He was no Christian - but merely an opportunist. Some private comments that he has made support this such as "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

 

Who knows the number of people both here in America, as well as throughout the world, who have died due to his interference in funding AIDS research and education... Who knows the number of gay-bashers who felt that they were in the right, because Falwell says God hates gays and will bless efforts to eliminate lesbians and gays.

That's a pretty tacky thing to say.

Also, please tell me how you think one man can influence funding for AIDS research...he wasn't a lawmaker. Do you really think he had that much influence? You give him way too much credit.

The fact that you are so happy that someone's dead makes me wonder what you'd do if I died...I don't agree with you politically. Will you rejoice if I die?

You can't let people get to you like this. He had a lot of sick views in my opinion, but he's facing God as we speak and he's answering for his life here on earth.

Also, you completely ignore the fact that he has a family that's enduring all of this hatred and vile garbage that people are spewing. Is that fair to them? How does it make you any different than Fred Phelps? I have to say that I'm really dissapointed in you right now, Trebs. I thought you were a better person than that.

Given that Falwell rejoiced in the deaths of so many,

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." And also tried to blame 9/11 on gays, feminists, etc, I won't be mourning his passing, not in the least.

 

He was opposed to basic freedoms, including the freedoms of equality (including for women), and the separation of Church and State.

I've often pointed out that many of his positions are eerily reminiscent of Osama Bin Laden

The man was a vile hatemongerer. I won't rejoice in his death, but I will say good riddance.

I would say that his comments were ignorant, but they don't justify the sick hate speech that's going around. I just can't see how we can sit on our high horses and talk about how sick and hateful he was and what he said, then turn around that laugh and celebrate in the face of his death. I mean, when you look at it, isn't that being just as sick and hateful as we claim he was?

Given that Falwell rejoiced in the deaths of so many,

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." And also tried to blame 9/11 on gays, feminists, etc, I won't be mourning his passing, not in the least.

 

He was opposed to basic freedoms, including the freedoms of equality (including for women), and the separation of Church and State.

I've often pointed out that many of his positions are eerily reminiscent of Osama Bin Laden

The man was a vile hatemongerer. I won't rejoice in his death, but I will say good riddance.

 

I would say that his comments were ignorant, but they don't justify the sick hate speech that's going around. I just can't see how we can sit on our high horses and talk about how sick and hateful he was and what he said, then turn around that laugh and celebrate in the face of his death. I mean, when you look at it, isn't that being just as sick and hateful as we claim he was?

I'd like to be clear; I'm not celebrating, but I certainly am not mourning. Yes, I did say "good riddance", just as I've done to many a public figure whom I feel did far more harm than good. He manifestly stood against freedom and equality, railing against secularism, pushing for a theocratic state, and I can't see any reason to lament his passing. I certainly agree that this is no laughing matter, though.

Given that Falwell rejoiced in the deaths of so many,

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals." And also tried to blame 9/11 on gays, feminists, etc, I won't be mourning his passing, not in the least.

 

He was opposed to basic freedoms, including the freedoms of equality (including for women), and the separation of Church and State.

I've often pointed out that many of his positions are eerily reminiscent of Osama Bin Laden

The man was a vile hatemongerer. I won't rejoice in his death, but I will say good riddance.

 

I would say that his comments were ignorant, but they don't justify the sick hate speech that's going around. I just can't see how we can sit on our high horses and talk about how sick and hateful he was and what he said, then turn around that laugh and celebrate in the face of his death. I mean, when you look at it, isn't that being just as sick and hateful as we claim he was?

 

I'd like to be clear; I'm not celebrating, but I certainly am not mourning. Yes, I did say "good riddance", just as I've done to many a public figure whom I feel did far more harm than good. He manifestly stood against freedom and equality, railing against secularism, pushing for a theocratic state, and I can't see any reason to lament his passing. I certainly agree that this is no laughing matter, though.

I know you weren't CJ....and I know what you mean about what he seemed to stand for. I was just making a point that if we as a community expect to be able to demonize people like Falwell and Phelps, then we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I can't even begin to imagine what Falwell's family must be going through right now. Not only did he pass suddenly, but they're having to watch and listen as people gloat and celebrate like lunatics about this. I mean, we should be able to rise above what we hated about Falwell.

I haven't heard any reports that he gay bashed anyone, or that he blew up abortion clinics or killed the doctors who perform abortions.

I don't believe Hitler personally gassed any Jews either, but I won't be mourning his death.

The man was a vile, pitiful excuse for a human being and I feel the world is a better place now he's gone, but you're right - it is distasteful to celebrate his death. At the very least, it lowers us to the level of him and his followers.

I don't believe Hitler personally gassed any Jews either, but I won't be mourning his death.

 

The man was a vile, pitiful excuse for a human being and I feel the world is a better place now he's gone, but you're right - it is distasteful to celebrate his death. At the very least, it lowers us to the level of him and his followers.

I see your point, all the way, but Hitler did order the gassing of the Jews. There's no proof that Falwell ever told anyone to gay bash or kill abortion doctors. If someone can give me proof that he did, I'll admit I'm wrong about that. In the meanwhile, I'm glad that someone agrees that we should be above the crap that Falwell was flinging. All I see right now are people rolling around in it.

The world is a much better place with him gone that I have no problem rejoicing. The efforts he undertook, from founding the Moral Majority, to victimization of persons with AIDS, to support of Apartheid, to just merely bearing false witness...

 

He was no Christian - but merely an opportunist. Some private comments that he has made support this such as "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

 

Who knows the number of people both here in America, as well as throughout the world, who have died due to his interference in funding AIDS research and education... Who knows the number of gay-bashers who felt that they were in the right, because Falwell says God hates gays and will bless efforts to eliminate lesbians and gays.

 

That's a pretty tacky thing to say.

 

Also, please tell me how you think one man can influence funding for AIDS research...he wasn't a lawmaker. Do you really think he had that much influence? You give him way too much credit.

 

The fact that you are so happy that someone's dead makes me wonder what you'd do if I died...I don't agree with you politically. Will you rejoice if I die?

 

You can't let people get to you like this. He had a lot of sick views in my opinion, but he's facing God as we speak and he's answering for his life here on earth.

 

Also, you completely ignore the fact that he has a family that's enduring all of this hatred and vile garbage that people are spewing. Is that fair to them? How does it make you any different than Fred Phelps? I have to say that I'm really dissapointed in you right now, Trebs. I thought you were a better person than that.

Nope - not tacky at all, just honest. As to his influence - it would be naive to think that he wasn't a major policy-maker, despite never holding elected office. But if people want to remain naive and supportive of those who have contributed to the culture of hatred and ignorance that has killed many of our community...

As to yourself, there are many people in the world who's political views I disagree with. Some of them, I am actually even friends with - especially if I respect how they came to those views. The difference (if it wasn't abundently obvious) is what Falwell did with those views - and the many deaths caused by this political opportunism.

Equating my views of Falwell with Fred Phelps is ... well, quite a stretch is the kindest way I can put it.

As to facing God - well, I have my own belief on that - and... well... up is NOT the direction I believe he was headed...

The world is a much better place with him gone that I have no problem rejoicing. The efforts he undertook, from founding the Moral Majority, to victimization of persons with AIDS, to support of Apartheid, to just merely bearing false witness...

 

He was no Christian - but merely an opportunist. Some private comments that he has made support this such as "Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn't have them, I'd have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need."

 

Who knows the number of people both here in America, as well as throughout the world, who have died due to his interference in funding AIDS research and education... Who knows the number of gay-bashers who felt that they were in the right, because Falwell says God hates gays and will bless efforts to eliminate lesbians and gays.

 

That's a pretty tacky thing to say.

 

Also, please tell me how you think one man can influence funding for AIDS research...he wasn't a lawmaker. Do you really think he had that much influence? You give him way too much credit.

 

The fact that you are so happy that someone's dead makes me wonder what you'd do if I died...I don't agree with you politically. Will you rejoice if I die?

 

You can't let people get to you like this. He had a lot of sick views in my opinion, but he's facing God as we speak and he's answering for his life here on earth.

 

Also, you completely ignore the fact that he has a family that's enduring all of this hatred and vile garbage that people are spewing. Is that fair to them? How does it make you any different than Fred Phelps? I have to say that I'm really dissapointed in you right now, Trebs. I thought you were a better person than that.

 

Nope - not tacky at all, just honest. As to his influence - it would be naive to think that he wasn't a major policy-maker, despite never holding elected office. But if people want to remain naive and supportive of those who have contributed to the culture of hatred and ignorance that has killed many of our community...

 

As to yourself, there are many people in the world who's political views I disagree with. Some of them, I am actually even friends with - especially if I respect how they came to those views. The difference (if it wasn't abundently obvious) is what Falwell did with those views - and the many deaths caused by this political opportunism.

 

Equating my views of Falwell with Fred Phelps is ... well, quite a stretch is the kindest way I can put it.

 

As to facing God - well, I have my own belief on that - and... well... up is NOT the direction I believe he was headed...

It's not your views that I'm equating with Falwell and Phelps, it's your actions. Don't you realize that you're doing the same thing they do? It's wrong and it puts a black eye on the gay community. That's what he wanted, and your giving it to him for free.

I see your point, all the way, but Hitler did order the gassing of the Jews. There's no proof that Falwell ever told anyone to gay bash or kill abortion doctors. If someone can give me proof that he did, I'll admit I'm wrong about that. In the meanwhile, I'm glad that someone agrees that we should be above the crap that Falwell was flinging. All I see right now are people rolling around in it.

Nick, he didn't have to give any orders. People should not only be accountable for their own actions, but also for the actions their words inspire others to take. He may not have deliberately incited violence. He may not have endorsed violence. He did, however, continue spouting the same words of hatred even though he knew the likely results of those words in the actions of those who listened to him.

He may not have issued orders, but the disregard he showed to the lives and happiness of others is just as repugnant. I will not celebrate his death, but I firmly believe the world became a better place the moment that man's heart ceased to beat.

Rob

I see your point, all the way, but Hitler did order the gassing of the Jews. There's no proof that Falwell ever told anyone to gay bash or kill abortion doctors. If someone can give me proof that he did, I'll admit I'm wrong about that. In the meanwhile, I'm glad that someone agrees that we should be above the crap that Falwell was flinging. All I see right now are people rolling around in it.

 

Nick, he didn't have to give any orders. People should not only be accountable for their own actions, but also for the actions their words inspire others to take. He may not have deliberately incited violence. He may not have endorsed violence. He did, however, continue spouting the same words of hatred even though he knew the likely results of those words in the actions of those who listened to him.

 

He may not have issued orders, but the disregard he showed to the lives and happiness of others is just as repugnant. I will not celebrate his death, but I firmly believe the world became a better place the moment that man's heart ceased to beat.

 

Rob

That sounds good, Rob, but the fact is this: people make their own decisions. Should Ted Kennedy be responsible for every drunk driver in Massachuttes? Should Robert Byrd be responsible for every new KKK member? Should George W Bush be responsible for every new coke addict? The answer to all of those questions is no.

If people can't think for themselves, how in the hell are we going to exist in ten years or twenty years? It's not logical to say that someone should be held accountable for someone who twisted their words. Unless he issued a direct order to go kill gays or blow up clinics, he isn't responsible for those sick actions.

Yes, people are responsible for their own actions, but if someone acts as a catalyst to provoke those actions they are accountable too. That's why incitement to murder is a crime - it doesn't require you to issue an order or take any action, merely through your words to inspire hatred or violence resulting in a murder. Would people have hated without him? Possibly. Would they have taken the actions they did without his words giving them the moral justification and psyching them up? In some cases, yes, but I firmly believe that there are people who have suffered and died as a result of the words that man preached.

Don't make him out to be innocent now. He is not a murderer, but he is responsible for the actions of the people who listened to his words and took lives because of them.

Yes, people are responsible for their own actions, but if someone acts as a catalyst to provoke those actions they are accountable too. That's why incitement to murder is a crime - it doesn't require you to issue an order or take any action, merely through your words to inspire hatred or violence resulting in a murder. Would people have hated without him? Possibly. Would they have taken the actions they did without his words giving them the moral justification and psyching them up? In some cases, yes, but I firmly believe that there are people who have suffered and died as a result of the words that man preached.

 

Don't make him out to be innocent now. He is not a murderer, but he is responsible for the actions of the people who listened to his words and took lives because of them.

So would you say that Eminem should be in prison for the murder of Matthew Sheppard? Or should Crime Mob be prosecuted for a driveby someone did while they had their CD playing? What about people who listen to songs and commit suicide? Should those artists be accountable?

In terms of criminal liability, that's a matter for the police and the courts. In terms of moral liability - yes, they should be held accountable.

Let me ask you this - if you say to friend A that you don't like person B and your friend then beats B up, are you, at least in part, accountable for that? I certainly would feel guilty in that situation.

Rob