the bystander effect

[John Galaor]

I was amazed watching this video on youtube.

 

 

Then I invite you to comment, what conclusions you can take from this social experiment.

Some would say is an experiment in psychology. In this case it should be social psychology.

Comments, please?

I want to know if all watchers here think the same as me.

[Skyline]

Yeah we studied this when I took intro psych as a GPA booster lol. I believe it, and have both seen and experienced it. Diffusion of Responsibility pretty much occurs on a daily basis. It has a lot to do with people following with others, like the video says.

[Tipdin]

Amazing, isn't it? Very interesting.

 

There are so many rules/regulations/thoughts/fears coming into lay that it's no wonder that so few people take note.

 

In today's world, it could even be a set-up for a mugging. A well dressed alcoholic that fell off their wagon. Someone infected with an illness that could pass to us.

 

I grew up in a city and I have passed by many bodies on the street. Although, on several occasions, I have called 911 regarding someone that I belied to be in true distress, but I did not approach them. I thought it better to leave the helping to those in the profession...

[hh5]

We all should dress like millionaires and some one will help us because they think its better than helping a common bum

If we dress commonly .. they may think of us as homeless ... especially if we look and smell bad

 

[John Galaor]

Yeah we studied this when I took intro psych as a GPA booster lol. I believe it, and have both seen and experienced it. Diffusion of Responsibility pretty much occurs on a daily basis. It has a lot to do with people following with others, like the video says.

 

What is amazing, at least for me, it was the time with each case.

 

In the first case, after 20 minutes, the experiment was called off.

 

In the second case, with the lady much better clothed, it took 4 minutes 15 seconds, for someone bending to help.

 

In the third case, with the actor clothed as an executive or a millionaire, it took just 4.25 seconds for a little crowd to gather around him to help. There were about like 5 or 6 persons helping the imaginary rich man.

 

That's tell me, that I should cloth much better than at present if I want to earn a change of being helped by strangers.

 

Analyzing this in fractions a time, the second case earned a reaction in a fifth of the time, if really the ordinary clothed guy were helped in 20 minutes. But he was not; then the ratio is unknown, or at least it would be greater then 1/5

 

Then, the ratio of time between the first case and the third, would had been 4/72,000 = (4/20*60*60) if the first person would had got any help at the end of twenty minutes.

Any way, not any body even stopped to glance at him, or approached to smell him, to see if he was drunk or something. Nobody called the police, or any phone number asking for help. So, the argument about the poor man stinking does not stand up as likely. Anyway, anyone on drugs would not be whining as much as this actor. You could not dismiss this case saying this is an actor, for you need to watch him for some seconds to determine this.

 

That made me think we worship people with high social rank. I was arguing with a guy I knew in my adolescence. He was now a sort of anarchist Marxist dreaming with the social revolution of the fifties or sixties. I told him, "you are wrong. Ordinary people want to get rich, or at least they want to own as many signs of richness as possible. That made think why so many people in the US are in favor that rich and the big corporations do not pay any taxes. They are dreaming of becoming rich themselves." He was a little stunned, then I continued, "Then your idea of killing the system is gonna fail. People do not want to risk loosing what they own. Even, if they do not own anything, they can dream of grabbing something from richer people, like his wallet, or his car, or something." He did not like my reply.

Then, my provisional conclusion is that we worship rich people. We can easily bend down to help them, as you had watched in the video. We are prone to help the powerful, and disregard the powerless. What dismay me is that, very likely, I would had behaved in the same way as the people we can watch in this video. I am not different to them.

 

If we were merely a bunch of primates, probably we are that, we would be also watching for what are doing the alpha male and his henchmen to help them or lick them, if any of them fall off a branch. If an alpha male angry at me, I would surely be quick to bend down and turn around showing my rear at him as a sign of submission.

John Galaor

[Skyline]

If we were merely a bunch of primates, probably we are that, we would be also watching for what are doing the alpha male and his henchmen to help them or lick them, if any of them fall off a branch. If an alpha male angry at me, I would surely be quick to bend down and turn around showing my rear at him as a sign of submission.

John Galaor

 

While I can kind of see what you're getting at, I feel that it is not 100% correct, and only a small piece of the story. When we briefly studied the Diffusion of Responsibility we examined a few cases. The first was one of the most famous in regards to the phenomenon (according to my textbook anyways) in which a young woman had been beaten and murdered on the street in a mugging turned sour type situation. This in itself isn't anything extraordinary, but the interesting bit comes from the fact that there were several witnesses to the crime, I believe it was like 6 or 7 (don't quote me I can't remember for sure xD). However, the witnesses could also see each other, as well as the event unfolding. When asked by police why they hadn't called the police or ambulance or something, nearly all of them referenced the sight of other people as to their reasoning why they didn't need to. "I thought the person in the building across from me had/would/.was calling for help, so I didn't bother."

 

Another similar case we studied was much more controlled. They had set up an experiment in which several people would participate in a interview questionaire type thing over the phone, with several other people on the line. They would be aware of the others on the phone with them, but could not hear them. Then the person whom was supposed to be administering the survey would feign some kind of tragic event (choking, or someone coming into the room they were in who was attempting to harm them or something like that.) Long story short, without any other contact with the other people in the experiment besides KNOWING they existed and could ALSO hear the events, the rate at which people actively went to seek help for the test giver (going to tell someone about it, attempting to dial 911 or something) was significantly lower, than in the control experiment, where no one was told other people could also hear what was going on (so the participants effectively thought they were talking 1:1).

 

A third and final experiment we studied, which I feel is relevant to this discussion again involved someone falling to harm of some kind, and people around to witness or hear the event. In this one, a fake meeting was organized in the workplace, with a man whom everyone passed on a ladder, falling and yelling while everyone was inside. In the trials which the person leading the meeting ignored the event, and continued talking, no one moved or went to go help the man. When someone got up to go look, everyone followed, and in a third set of trials, when one of the participants was alone in the boardroom (waiting for the rest of the people to arrive) they again, often went to go investigate.

 

Combining all of these, leads me to the conclusion that personal safety and "social status" do indeed play a role in how diffusion of responsibility manifests itself in various situations, but also tells me that it is a very minor one indeed. In several of these cases (and many others) the only thing the people being studied needed, was confirmation that other people were also witnessing/experiencing the event. This speaks volumes about how we act and react based on the actions of others. This was touched on lightly in the video you had posted. Based on my prior experience with the phenomenon it seems a bit rash to jump to the conclusion that it is because of a worship of social status that this occurs, although as I said, it definitely plays a part.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Skyline

[Tipdin]

Skyline, you've made many interesting comments. I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to emphasize that people in general, are such social creatures that our behavior is often determined by our circumstances and those people that may be nearby.

 

I think that fact is extremely telling.

 

How we react is dependent upon who may see us. That alone tells us a great deal. Figuring out WHY has been a life-long study for me. I come from a different planet, evidently. My upbringing was very different than my peers as well as from the generations after my own.

 

From the beginning of my schooling, at age five, I was in an experimental school program. It was based on the Utopian Society theory. That is, my happiness is indistinguishable from the happiness and well-being of those around me. That any and ALL forms of competition were inherently bad and must be eliminated.

 

Aside from setting me up for a lifetime of failure, anger, and frustration, I do not react or behave in ways that are deemed 'normal.' For example, when I was a kid, I was waiting for a bus in downtown Minneapolis and there was a man who started arguing with another man just a few feet from where I was sitting. One man stabbed the other man several times. While the other people at the bus stop ignored what was happening, I was like the alarm going off.

 

As the stabber began to leave, I followed him, screaming to everyone that he had just stabbed someone. I followed him into a bar, (even though I was nowhere near the age to enter) and I was screaming constantly that he had just stabbed someone. The man tried chasing me but I was a quick little shit. He also threatened me and eventually threw his bloody knife at me, but I followed him for blocks screaming the entire time.

 

The police finally came to get ME! Someone had called about a kid disturbing the peace! But I pointed out the stabber and he was taken into custody. Sadly, the man who was stabbed, died. But I just could not ignore what happened. Because of my upbringing, there was no way in hell that my values and beliefs would allow me to NOT do something about what I saw.

 

Since then, I have seen other incidents and while battling for gay rights over the past 35+ years, I have been caught and beaten on several occasions. I now carry a cell phone and will call 911 at the drop of a hat rather than intervene myself. But I still cannot ignore a situation.

 

This whole thread makes me wonder what are we really teaching our children and are we prioritizing correctly? In this experiment that you showed us, it's fairly safe to assume that most everyone has a cell phone today, yet nobody even went so far as to reached for it while passing someone who was clearly in distress. Fascinating.

[John Galaor]

While I can kind of see what you're getting at, I feel that it is not 100% correct, and only a small piece of the story. When we briefly studied the Diffusion of Responsibility we examined a few cases. The first was one of the most famous in regards to the phenomenon (according to my textbook anyways) in which a young woman had been beaten and murdered on the street in a mugging turned sour type situation. This in itself isn't anything extraordinary, but the interesting bit comes from the fact that there were several witnesses to the crime, I believe it was like 6 or 7 (don't quote me I can't remember for sure xD). However, the witnesses could also see each other, as well as the event unfolding. When asked by police why they hadn't called the police or ambulance or something, nearly all of them referenced the sight of other people as to their reasoning why they didn't need to. "I thought the person in the building across from me had/would/.was calling for help, so I didn't bother."

 

Another similar case we studied was much more controlled. They had set up an experiment in which several people would participate in a interview questionaire type thing over the phone, with several other people on the line. They would be aware of the others on the phone with them, but could not hear them. Then the person whom was supposed to be administering the survey would feign some kind of tragic event (choking, or someone coming into the room they were in who was attempting to harm them or something like that.) Long story short, without any other contact with the other people in the experiment besides KNOWING they existed and could ALSO hear the events, the rate at which people actively went to seek help for the test giver (going to tell someone about it, attempting to dial 911 or something) was significantly lower, than in the control experiment, where no one was told other people could also hear what was going on (so the participants effectively thought they were talking 1:1).

 

A third and final experiment we studied, which I feel is relevant to this discussion again involved someone falling to harm of some kind, and people around to witness or hear the event. In this one, a fake meeting was organized in the workplace, with a man whom everyone passed on a ladder, falling and yelling while everyone was inside. In the trials which the person leading the meeting ignored the event, and continued talking, no one moved or went to go help the man. When someone got up to go look, everyone followed, and in a third set of trials, when one of the participants was alone in the boardroom (waiting for the rest of the people to arrive) they again, often went to go investigate.

 

Combining all of these, leads me to the conclusion that personal safety and "social status" do indeed play a role in how diffusion of responsibility manifests itself in various situations, but also tells me that it is a very minor one indeed. In several of these cases (and many others) the only thing the people being studied needed, was confirmation that other people were also witnessing/experiencing the event. This speaks volumes about how we act and react based on the actions of others. This was touched on lightly in the video you had posted. Based on my prior experience with the phenomenon it seems a bit rash to jump to the conclusion that it is because of a worship of social status that this occurs, although as I said, it definitely plays a part.

 

First of all, I had to admit this is not a serious experiment. But it gave us a hint about how it is society.

 

Well, the first case about maltreating a lady, I understand well they did not act, for most of us are cowards. We are not sort of fighters and get scared of being ourselves wounded if we mess into to the act. Pure cowardice, I suppose can be called. we had been raised to be cowards and do not get involved. It is a pure miracle if we can be converted into soldiers to fight a war.

 

There is also also a question of "indifference". This is not the same thing as cowardice, but it is a relative. In the case of bullies in school, it has been proved that bullies had "carte blanche", to bully and to harass a sissy or a gay, or whatever. It is not big deal for most people in school. In the police comes afterwards the facts to a high school, nobody knows any thing of what happened. Nobody has seen the putative bullies to mistreat the sissy, etc. It is about the same attitude. Unless the family of the victim could present a video, nobody would declare any shit against the bullies, that are often some heroic jocks.

 

I think this is also valid for the second case you said, about the phone experiment.

 

I got the idea, that society is a haven for heroes and bullies. They is a way to training in indifference, in a similar way to the Romans of the Empire watching the war games in the circus. Then in our high schools, the bullies are training in harassing losers, or lower class people, for they would be one day the future officers or the army. They had to have the guts to kill people without blinking.

 

I think this is not big deal for authorities, I suppose.

J.G.

[John Galaor]

Skyline, you've made many interesting comments. I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to emphasize that people in general, are such social creatures that our behavior is often determined by our circumstances and those people that may be nearby.

 

I think that fact is extremely telling.

 

How we react is dependent upon who may see us. That alone tells us a great deal. Figuring out WHY has been a life-long study for me. I come from a different planet, evidently. My upbringing was very different than my peers as well as from the generations after my own.

 

From the beginning of my schooling, at age five, I was in an experimental school program. It was based on the Utopian Society theory. That is, my happiness is indistinguishable from the happiness and well-being of those around me. That any and ALL forms of competition were inherently bad and must be eliminated.

 

Aside from setting me up for a lifetime of failure, anger, and frustration, I do not react or behave in ways that are deemed 'normal.' For example, when I was a kid, I was waiting for a bus in downtown Minneapolis and there was a man who started arguing with another man just a few feet from where I was sitting. One man stabbed the other man several times. While the other people at the bus stop ignored what was happening, I was like the alarm going off.

 

As the stabber began to leave, I followed him, screaming to everyone that he had just stabbed someone. I followed him into a bar, (even though I was nowhere near the age to enter) and I was screaming constantly that he had just stabbed someone. The man tried chasing me but I was a quick little shit. He also threatened me and eventually threw his bloody knife at me, but I followed him for blocks screaming the entire time.

 

The police finally came to get ME! Someone had called about a kid disturbing the peace! But I pointed out the stabber and he was taken into custody. Sadly, the man who was stabbed, died. But I just could not ignore what happened. Because of my upbringing, there was no way in hell that my values and beliefs would allow me to NOT do something about what I saw.

 

Since then, I have seen other incidents and while battling for gay rights over the past 35+ years, I have been caught and beaten on several occasions. I now carry a cell phone and will call 911 at the drop of a hat rather than intervene myself. But I still cannot ignore a situation.

 

This whole thread makes me wonder what are we really teaching our children and are we prioritizing correctly? In this experiment that you showed us, it's fairly safe to assume that most everyone has a cell phone today, yet nobody even went so far as to reached for it while passing someone who was clearly in distress. Fascinating.

 

You comments are very interesting. The problem is what the owners of this society think it should to be.

First of all, they need that we would be scared of the bullies and criminals. For this case, their scarce police force, they are saving on this waste of money, would be much in need. In this way, authorities could be considered a most needed tool to protect us against criminals.

This has a dual purpose. We have to fear authority, for this is the only way they could have tool to keep themselves sure. I mean the people of high rank. To achieve that, all societies had always needed to perform "human sacrifices" on token persons, that can be labeled sodomites, witches, blasphemers or criminals. The human sacrifices serve to remind people that authorities or its agents can be vicious murderous people. It is a traditional way to tame us into submission.

 

Then, this experiment of the bystanders, proves that we are really so well tamed, and that we are indifferent for the shit that occurs to other people. So, we do not care for the situation of the underdogs and losers. f**k them all. But in regard to people of high rank we are very sensible. That explains why it took only 4 seconds for the walkers to bend down to help a person of high rank.

 

I think the last part is very easy to prove is right. Then, we can devise a wonderful speech to prove otherwise, that we are all, most of us, a wonderful bunch of sensible human beings; not a bunch of indifferent bastards. Sorry for the poor bastards, I was using a traditional way of speech that is not politically correct.

JG

[hh5]

You comments are very interesting. The problem is what the owners of this society think it should to be.

First of all, they need that we would be scared of the bullies and criminals. For this case, their scarce police force, they are saving on this waste of money, would be much in need. In this way, authorities could be considered a most needed tool to protect us against criminals.

This has a dual purpose. We have to fear authority, for this is the only way they could have tool to keep themselves sure. I mean the people of high rank. To achieve that, all societies had always needed to perform "human sacrifices" on token persons, that can be labeled sodomites, witches, blasphemers or criminals. The human sacrifices serve to remind people that authorities or its agents can be vicious murderous people. It is a traditional way to tame us into submission.

 

Then, this experiment of the bystanders, proves that we are really so well tamed, and that we are indifferent for the shit that occurs to other people. So, we do not care for the situation of the underdogs and losers. f**k them all. But in regard to people of high rank we are very sensible. That explains why it took only 4 seconds for the walkers to bend down to help a person of high rank.

 

I think the last part is very easy to prove is right. Then, we can devise a wonderful speech to prove otherwise, that we are all, most of us, a wonderful bunch of sensible human beings; not a bunch of indifferent bastards. Sorry for the poor bastards, I was using a traditional way of speech that is not politically correct.

JG

 

Yes it make a great reality show to out zoo keeper aliens => That we're ready to slaughter like cattle.

 

Perhaps there is a funded study that tested all the permutations of human reality ...

 

or hey didn't they call that "Candid Camera" just that laughing is optional and doing the right thing is ever more optional.

and learning from our mistakes is a blessing ... ops .... someone on that news experiment learn something?

[Hamen Cheese]

Wow. This surprised me. I think it's quite true though especially when you can see social differences between yourself and the other group. Doesn't make it right but to some extent it makes me sad and maybe even a little ashamed cause I might be guilty of this without even being conscious of it. Definitely made me think about how I would and should react if the situation did come up.

[Y_B]

I should try this on campus and see how long it takes for someone to help me when I'm...

 

1) made up like a homeless person who wandered in

2) a regular student just out of class

3) dressed like a businessman wearing a large and obvious "Google Recruiter" badge

 

[Docile]

I should try this on campus and see how long it takes for someone to help me when I'm...

 

1) made up like a homeless person who wandered in

2) a regular student just out of class

3) dressed like a businessman wearing a large and obvious "Google Recruiter" badge

 

 

Well, I think it is obvious that all of the comp sci students will swarm you so quickly that you'll never even get to the ground wearing that badge. : P

[thephoenix]

I am...speechless, and quite.. appalled.

 

If I witnessed something like that, I would probably call emergency services. However, that being an experiment, I would probably get in a little trouble for calling 9-1-1.

 

I think people are just unsure what they are supposed to do. If someone just yells "help", it leaves room for confusion because people don't know what is wrong. However, if instead that same person yells "call 9-1-1", I think more people would respond by doing exactly that -- calling 9-1-1.