dyanov

I just took a test that said i am 80% girlish. http://www.blogthings.com/howboyishorgirlishareyouquiz/ try it yourself

Nice that you came out, out for this thread. Glad to have you join us. Well this whole thread only proves that all of us, but especially me, can never be certain of anything. And I'm not even sure that I can be certain of my own uncertainty.

Around 4 people is the maximum that engage in a conversation in which everyone gets to be heard and listened to. I'm just happy that I am not talking to myself..... again.

Where's Kitty she promised to come back and reply to this. And what about the rest of you.

What is the world coming to when even the sexual orientation of Harvey "Torch Song Trilogy" Fierstein is questioned on a gay site. I gues it means what every one has been telling me. You can't tell nothing about nothing from anything. But I swear I thought Harvey was gay. And even Harvey swears he is gay. But i guess that just because a guy has never had a sexual relation with a woman, has only male lovers, swears up and down he is gay, is a gay icon, doesn't mean he is really gay. After all he could secretly have a wife and kids in the suburbs. And no one would ever suspect. I bet half the people we think are gay are leading a double straight life.

Thank you for coming to the resuce. I incorrectly assumed that everyone on this site would know who Harvey is. I think you are right it is generational. Poor Harvey is wondering why am I picking on him. Why have I chosen him to be the poster boy for all that is "effeminate." Actaully Harvey has a completely unique voice, its raspy and chock full of gravel. I imagine Harvey getting a hold of me and confronting me face to face,"Do you think this is funny?"

You need to google harvey fierstein. Actually I am only using poor Harvey as my criteria for "effeminate." The point of this thread is self-education about my own prejudices, my own assumptions about peoples sexual orientation. I am learning that my belief that I can tell someone's sexual orientation just by looking at them, can be misleading. I'm also learning that many people share this prejudice regardles of their sexual oreintation. It is just as pervasie in the gay community as any other segment of society. What do you think ?

You really took the time to work through this complicated topic. And your reply has helped me to clarify my own thinking. I agree with you that the equation of man with hetrosexual is unfortunate. I think what David's manager meant was "there is no such thing as an effeminate straight male." (and perhaps he might have even used the word straight in the show, but I didn't catch it. I also agree with you that while there is an overlap between effeminacy and orientation the former is not a reliable predictor of the latter. And you are right to point out the vagaries of the word "effeminate." It's meaning is not precise or clear, and it is generally a derogatory word in our society. What am I looking at, is whether the equation of "effeminacy" and "gay" is just a prejudice. If it is completely a prejudice, then it is shared by almost everyone in our society, regardles of sexual orientation. On these forums there is a topic is "Ryan Seacrest Gay?" Let me ask you the direct question. Would you believe that Harvey Fierstein was straight, had no sexual inclinations towards other men? And if you assumed that Harvey could not be straight, would you characterize your response as a prejudice?

Thanks for a really good, intelligent response. I agree with you that people fall into the many shades between black and white. What I was looking at was the case of a man who denies any attraction to men, but who nonetheless presents himself like Harvey Fierstein. (I don't mean to pick on Harvey, but I am just using him as an example whom we all kow.) I just want to hear peoples' visceral reactions. If you met Harvey Fierstein andhe told you he was straight would you believe him? I think almost all of us would not. Now we would not know how gay he was, where he would land on the line, but would anybody believe he is completely straight? Would you? I know we have no way of knowing, and how we view Harvey is interpreted through our own lenses, and therefore my point defies a logical proof. However, I am examining whether we are all of us -- ragrdless of sexual orientation -- operating under a prejudice, that prejudice being to interpret a person's sexual orientation through their mannerism, how they present themselves.

Ryan He is only mildly gay acting. I think he's a real breeder. But can a guy who says he's straight, but acts as gay as Harvey Fierstein be anything but gay? I don't think it's possible.

you left out the best reason of all Guys

I know you're reading this.. Why no replies? Is it too sophomoric or sophomoronic to warrant a reply? Obviously I don't think so, since I am now discussing this with myself. And I am not interested in post self debating or posterbating.......

no apology necessary.....

We're only newbies once. :ranger:

I know it's a dumb question, but we've all asked it countless time. There's even a thread where they discuss the host of American Idol, who I don't think is.