hh5

It makes you wonder who got paid off to issue a special permit. The bus size is illegal in NY\NJ But having DOT certs it makes it legal for interstate travel, confusing

lol i never realize so much fantasy here

Can the guys survive a pacific tsunami?

if she got this madd would Trevor n Shane stand the chance?

well more news The accident is systemic .. one thing lead to another * We really don't know the kind of chat the monitor had with the Teens about the heat ... * We don't know if the teens complaint directly to the driver * They been on the road for 0:45 to 1:45 * some time during the ride and the dancing the AC started to not work ... * what was the monitor and driver doing before the hatch argument? * There are digital temperature gauges .. the driver would have also felt the heat as well .. he would be uncomfortable because it was the whole bus was hot I am sure the investigation will look at the events .. if the AC worked then the minor would not take his own initiative to open the hatch ... take charge of the situation in his own way .. mischievous may have not been the motive ... impatience .. dissatisfaction of the service perhaps its kinda of an argument between the teens n the monitor about opening the hatch to vent the heat ... you have to open the hatch all the way ... it won't stay open by releasing the latch ... it means your arm and part of your head is expose .. but at the same time the hatch was under the overpass ... so the accident occurred ... the minor assume it was clear .. it was not just curiosity .. it was to solve the AC heat issue .. we didn't hear from the drivers POV about the AC n heat. We don't know if the monitor said to the minor like "leave the hatch alone and I will talk to the driver to solve the problem. do you hear me?" People react to heat exhaustion differently and people react to complaints differently People act rashly and don't listen ... people can be argumentative the monitor was in the middle of an ugly situation We don't know what the driver decided to do about the heat and when it started to get noticeable .. I bet he didn't want to pull over the bus in peak traffic but he should have ... and perhaps the situation it would have not lead to the accident. The ppl are only reacting to the action of the minor but not realize the AC and heat exhaustion was the key player ... I've been on a regular bus\train before ... they pull over at the nearest stop ... unload us ... and call in another bus\train to pick us up ... and then the driver would put the bus\train out of service that would look bad for a luxury charter in peak traffic to wait for bus maintenance to come n fix the AC no announcement made prior to all these symptomatic events On a regular bus .. the driver made announcements ... things could have happen differently and this would be part of the investigation where diff experts will evaluate the accident ... make diff recommendations Here is a similar party bus issue I bet this company didn't want to risk ruining the kids party and wind up with a refund situation. So I bet the investigation will review the bus to see if it was breaking down. This is not the only incident ... others articles say their bus broke down several times before they got to their destination Example General Terms n Conditions - Terms vary from one bus company to another In that other article above their company would only refund 2000 out of 5200 and it took a news channel to get them to refund a total of 3500. This gives an idea about what was up for this party bus trip ... but ... the risk was higher ... rather than the driver taking the right actions during the failing AC, a potential breakdown, an unhealthy hot bus

Actually your parents intention was to keep your head in the car ... they succeeded ... even if u got stung by a bee ... she'll say "see what I mean" Many years ago like in the 20s-50s, nothing would be done by the gov't or business, news sometimes didn't travel very far ... sometimes the article is buried in the paper or the news piece is put out on tv where most ppl aren't watching. The victims could not afford to sue. Zero Accountability .. Zero Change In the 20s-50s nothing will be done, even if the bus company was at fault Today something will be done, Accountability is being argued ... everyone trying to figure out ... what changes comes next Right now its in the hands of parents across the country .. the ball is now in the other parties head (pun) Accountability is not always visible and its a case by case basis The bus company will handled it and we would never know how they handled it with the bus driver or monitor Your parents handled accountability with you and we didn't know about it until this thread Yes the minor has his share of accountability but it was override by party mode and mischievousness It was blatantly obvious and if the monitor had the right training he could have prevented it The monitor didn't see it nor had the instinct or ignored his instinct ... perhaps its not his fault ... but he has his lesson but for the company image ... they may improve their service If it happens next time to him, he now knows he has a choice in the matter I guess those that don't have to be told or taught but saves lives ... we call them unsung Heroes If no one knew meaning no one had reason to warn then yes that was a tragic accident If your parent didn't know your finger hit a bee ever .. its tragic but you still got your head n u got your personal lesson if your parents saw you stick your hand out the window, didn't do anything about it, and your hand got severed ... its not just you who will feel accountability but she would too but you still have your head intact perhaps the monitor sort of feels that way too but the minor isn't his kid ... its less personal We don't know what else this monitor feels about the situation ... until next time he'll lets us know The driver ... we don't know ... There is one case What if you had a child and never had to spank nor discipline because he never got into trouble one day ... he got his head knocked off but everyone blames him more than feels sorry where as you got a child that always tests people to the limits and gets into mischief and everyone yells at him one day ... he got his head knocked off what is people reaction?

Double Decker buses resurface in the USA in 2006 For NYC, they started a pilot program in 2008. Before that it was in the 1978. These buses used to go up and down Fifth Ave for decades prior to the 1953. The reasons in the 78 that they stop using the buses was that they required a lot of maintenance. In the 50s they were discontinued because of the lack of manufacturer and competition. The issue in 2008 with the buses was with the Senior citizens and the disabled. The seats for them are at the back of the bus. That proves to be an extreme inconvenience, I rather say its also a safety issue to expose them to dangerous movements aboard a bus just so they could find the their guarantee seat. I would also think its hard for the driver to see to that a Senior or Disabled would get a seat on-board this kind of bus. NYC saw these buses as a cost saving measure. A DDB from Belgium cost 650K and 900K from a regular bus I believe the article I read is saying. I can't say what happen to the one month trial program since I left NYC in 2006, It is a popular with the tour bus industry and I have not found when they got started in NYC. I do remember the Red double Decker tour buses - I presume that was something like Big Apple Bus tours. I do wonder how much of NYC can withstand the weight of DDB fully loaded with passengers. I wonder if the Belgium made bus was able to handle the extreme conditions in NYC. I suppose it can handle the winter because of the weight. Has any one had a ride in these buses? it must be loads of fun!! I like that seen with Wil Smith dropping in on an open deck DDB in MIB one.

http://gothamist.com...ty_bus_acci.php news really doesn't get the facts straight until you hit another article ... there is diff between a Guard and a bus monitor ... its service ... they don't stick around in one place, they have different duties as needed ranging from picking up trash, serving drinks, warn the hatch, instruct the teens when dancing is over, change the venue of music, try to keep order, work with the bus driver in case of an altercation or emergency this seems to coincide with the comparison of other bus services, there is no authority to enforce if they are attendants. Its still strange that monitor gave an interview. I bet his actions will be scrutinized and the bus company might come down on him like this interview. You can wonder about the bus company when they where planning to put double decker buses into service. Did they ever think about the possibility that they are on the edge of violating safety? Sure the bus fulfilling gov safety standards but those standards are not rated for teen mischief. Did they review the possible mischief issues with a taller bus? Now they have actual experience to add to their 30 years of service that they learn something new from expanding their operations thinking they can profit a lot since not many other bus companies are doing double Decker bus charters. Gosh, they should have had chaperons since they really didn't have a security guard. The bus company may change their policy and instruct chaperons to keep alert against teen mischief. I bet the officer of the company is going to get internally chewed for overlooking teen mischief ... even though they served within gov law just barely when it comes to teens. I wonder if the teens ever raided the bar for booze when the monitor wasn't there. There is evidence they had plans. The over pass is 14ft and the bus is 13ft .. the minor would have to climb over one foot to get his head hit ... perhaps he was trying to look pass the hatch cover ... when his head was struck ... perhaps he could have been trying to take some pictures with his smart phone. the funeral was close casket, 500 people came to the funeral, the grandma was feeling upset and fainted, its mourning mode so its really hard to tell if the parents are going to sue, their using the news as warning to all Because of social media and news, it seems likely the lawyer from "Sweet Hereafter" will come knocking at their door or even come to the funeral, introducing himself, and leaving his calling card. Perhaps requesting to visit them since this is not an outskirt town. I bet local channel five, nine, and eleven news has already barrage the bus company and parents for interviews. The minor is describe as low key, makes me wonder if the parents are the same. This could support the idea of not wanting to pursue a lawsuit unless convince by the lawyer from hell that it wasn't an accident. Proof can come from movies that influence the passion to try mischief. Like in the movie BIG, Tom Hanks popping his head out of the limo roof, other movies doing the same like on Prom night, party night, date night. It gives an idea that this is a city tradition even thought its against the law. But the movies doesn't make that distinction. It influence mischievous behavior to cross lines with a double Decker bus. Personal responsibility is put aside when fun and party mode is the overriding factor with the added flavor of looking for fun to do. Have you not notice at various parties how many people cross the PR line? A news person said Bergen county launch an investigation and charges may be filed. To whom and what charges? If they rule it an accident will no charges will be file? Lots of bureau n org love to launch so many investigations that over lap each other to protect themselves from a lawsuit even if this may be seen as an accident.

They were sniff up for leads but really advertising themselves into real trouble with drug operatives can we doubt its a cia operative?

is it a walk in roll ... lol

Thank you for your response, John. Yes, I have to agree the minor does share the blame. I may have forgot to agree with that fact. But his death was preventable in this case if the SG was trained in handling minors. We don't know the planning of intentions by the group of minors had with the hatch. How this minor was selected and dared to do it. We don't know if he acted totally on his own choice. We don't have any evidence except he got himself killed. I disagree with the public outcry to disrespect the minor. This was the same treatment with Clementi case. They blame him personally and his action. They blame him with all their hate they can find when he only did one stupid action. They make it everything and that hurts the mother and the family. Perhaps the minor is lucky that he didn't cause the death of others through his actions. I point out there's room for improvements for the SG and the operating procedure. Learning better skills to handle the situation for he didn't handle well. Thank you for going over the possible impossible improvements to the hatch. I still leave the design issue to the engineers. But perhaps they could put a crash detection device on the bus that will release the lock on the hatch. The lock can be made to be normally unlock when is looses power. The back of the bus can have two hidden back doors. The sun roofs can also be modified. The windows designed so the passengers could break the glass to exit the bus. Again the engineers and designers can work out all the details The industry has the historic information about the use of the hatch and other exit contingencies. The hatch can be hidden behind a drop ceiling ... so the passengers won't directly look for it during party time. The industry can continue to warn the passengers against illegal use of exits for enjoyment. Enforce it when they can. Has any one heard of any stories regarding school n metro-buses where minors opened back doors and hatches? I'm sure there are cases. I bet the hatches have been played with but I'm not sure about the door. I bet there was a someone that got hurt just like this minor but it was long ago. But they can always put alarms on the hatches as well as a flashing red lights on the dash board. They can also give verbal warnings that sound off once the first seal or step has been tampered with. There's so many ideas that can be considered on improving the hatches. Single Decker Buses and limos may not need these improvements. If the SDB needs it then it can be added optionally. Some Limos tend to make their hatch a sun roof only while other kept it as a moon roof and put up with the problem. For Titanic, I defer to the senate and British hearing cases The White Star Line defend it as an accident and she sank in one whole peace Nobody ever knew of the tragedy was due to negligence of WSL The Senate ruled it the right way but have no power to enforce or jail WSL officers but suggest changes to the Olympic class ships The Brits ruled it as an accident ... a lost The the british commission was very lenient. WSL just complied with the changes and made their own design modifications. Paid the lowest settlements possible of 664,000USD rather than millions. I never head that any officer of the WSL was ever put in jail for the sinking. For 85 yrs the White Star Line did everything they could to improve these ships. But still these ships sunk no matter how they tried to make it as safe as possible. However the passengers where able to abandon ship during their sinking. WSL merged with a Germany company and made the Queen Mary Type ships. They didn't have any incidents of sinking with these class ships. In theory WSL was never at fault. Its only 85years plus the last 20 years we've found the evidence WSL was the bad guy. But they covered it all up and burned all the evidence. We're out of luck we can't put them in jail. We're lucky we didn't carry the blame to the decendents. The Jesus reference is for his helping of others. Some of us has followed his example. This is just an example; other religions have theirs because we're all human. Joan of Arc reference was her fighting of her country (where women were not allowed to fight) Discounting she was killed by her enemy. She was doing what she can do to help her country. The idea is that we do what we can to help improve things. From a far we can help the mother of the dead minor move on, if it helps. Its disrespectful to send hate mail to her family or leave bad comments on the internet for her and the family to find. Those messages can hurt them as well but can't hurt an already dead minor. Part of the healing is what can be done thru our system of justice and national\local gov't. We only change because something tragic happen. Titanic has been used as the universal example of the Perfect Storm. We think of Titanic when trageties happen. We're not proactive and there are many examples of why. The lost of minors aboard Titanic they were the third class while most of the minors of first class were saved. This is part of the class warfare mentality carried out by the WSL who profited on the backs of the third class and the workers about Titanic. You do know the foreign workers were prevented from going to the life boats as well. This is a historic hate message because it is the example of the survival of the fittest. The first class is the flower of Darwism. The hate message people left about the minor was in reference to Darwisim to say he was unfit. They imply he wasn't useful to humanity. He is a disgrace. The people don't realize the minor is minority. The third class was also a minority. We're sending hate messages of all forms for years That's why I listed Class Warfare, Racism, Anti-Gay, Nazism, etc. Some of us instinctively go to this place inside of us and we don't realize it. They become part of the problem and they don't wish to help improve things by change. Yes good point it will still happen ... but we do what we can to save those we can ... by education, design, and how we do things. The argument for "it still can happen" is because the gov't pick the lowest cost solution. The lobbyest and business do not want to pay the extra cost to save lives. As I said its bad business, it better we save lives because the more people we can put to work the more money gov't and business can get as revenue. It reoccuring income. We can solve our ecomonic issues like healthcare, Taxes, etc. We can reform the employment model. When we argue about downgrading adulthood to age16. It not wise because they are not adults that has reach their full potential by accepted education level in the USA. After college is when most can support themselves. We argue the downgrade because the young has decide to grow up to fast. Proving personal responsiblity arguement. The reality is thats because a young couple made an error in having children. (Yes your right they still do it and we still try to educate). We've expanded the poverty level and create social programs to help them. But our economy is shutting down these programs. We have to acknowlege the downgrade can not carry out personal responsible things without help. Thus we reinforce they are minors. Back to the Jesus reference. Minors we help them no matter what age they are. We protect them as best as we can from their own mistakes even though they will do it again and again until they reach adulthood. Thats why the SG needs to learn to handle minors. Yeah its a little extra work but its worth it rather than all the paperwork and suspension and litigation. Look there are a type of people who grow up into adults by age but we have to look out for their best interest until the day they die. Yes, they could make similiar mistakes like the minors because they will never mature in their mind. Some of us make bad remarks about them. But its fortuante that some will never understand the meaning. But some do understand and the damage could be permanent and caretakers that care for them are hurt because they are seen as innocent and helpless. Our country helps the underdog because its "in god we trust" Oh this thread will update when there is new factual information ... if anyone is still interested The wheels of progress takes time. -- Funny thing to press on about the hatch ... on Titanic the crew didn't practice responsibly when they left the starboard side cargo hatch open ... they failed to close it when the boats refused to come around to the hatch during two incidents in regards to adding more passengers to maximized the number of saved ... the crew members on the boats acted on their own fears rather than following the commands of their officers aboard Titanic ... Titanic flooded sooner when the water came in on their Broadway deck ... who knows how much more time it could have been bought if someone practice responsibility by closing the hatch after use. During urgency there can be accidents where personal responsibility is not entirely followed. On Titanic it was the flooding (and more) and on the party bus it was the extreme heat of a malfunctioning AC and still partying teens. People act differently under certain types of stress. If the press uncovers more about why the accident occurred then we all be understanding of what humanly went wrong.

ahh I like this guy ... i'm gonna miss him!!! he reminds me of Geoffrey Holder for the 7up commercial

Currently we can assume that both the driver and SG are suspended from duty until an investigation is completed. The company will have to gather all kinds of evidence to file with the port authority and city bureaus The accident left a load of paper work for all those involved. It will take some time before the bus is release from being impounded and pay a fine. What the company will do with all this extra expense and lost sales is another issue. Because we don't know if a lawsuit will happen. I not sure what it will mean when the bus company makes an apology and charges a lot more than the package price of the booking. That's a private matter there. If the parents pursue a court case they would review the evidence with their lawyer * Get a copy of the Bus video recordings, if any. * A timeline of what happen * All the Testimonies taken by the various witness which includes the driver and SG, minors * Background checks of the driver and SG * Results of the investigations of the various bureaus Then the lawyer will see what case they have or not The other things like emotional damages etc that's a very sticky issue. It might breakup the friendship of the families. The questions asked is part of the evidence of the parents who booked and inquired may have been recorded by the CSR. So transcripts of that would have be requested by the lawyer. There is doubt that we would hear about what happen after the funeral, if they are pursing a case or not. A rep said No Chaperones were present. The booking requirements are not posted on their website. I not pursuing investigation or trying to be a reporter with the bus company This is their matter to take up with a lawyer. It doesn't make sense to have one SG do all the work with handling 65 teens The question one hopes to be answered if the parents were sold by the CSR on the idea of no chaperons required. We don't know if any of the parents wanted to look after the minors. I am not sure how many dance parities were ever held at the strict catholic school they go to. So we don't know that case if the parents ever thought about chaperoning. No idea what discussion were held in this topic. That's a court question LOL, the company is there to sell a service rather than spell out safety issues than would scare the client from considering their service. If asked specifically they would restate gov law and perhaps someone would get arrested and charged and fined. But still subject to what happen. The company could pursue to sue the client. Its a grey area for them to talk about past history of abuse of opening hatches by clients. The CSR will simply state they don't know about that and may refer them to another department. We could presume they made preparations for the booking by talking with their minors. Going over safety. We presume that the company have some sort of transportation video about safety required by gov. We don't know if the minors were involved with the booking or talking with the CSR. We don't know the families. You do miss the point. The minors sort of treat this like a prom party. Planning what kind of fun they are going to have on the bus. Smuggling booze, daring some minor to pop his head out of the hatch, some pranks They all come from a strict catholic school. We don't know how micro-manged the minors are in their life. This party is their chance to unwind and have their kind of fun because of the opportunity of no parents. Depending upon what they considered to do, did they figure the responsibility of opening the hatch. We don't know the social structure of the 65 teens. We may have elements of the perfect storm created by human events. As I said its up to the court to decide a lot of the issues in the accident on the disposition of whoever is involved. Your skipped the SG who may be employed by the company or contracted out to this company * The question is if he has experience in handling minors * The SG said he was frustrated in handling the minor A line of questioning and video would answer a lot of questions. * By cross examination by a lawyer they would ask if he consider the following * Upon the third warning Could you have wip your cell phone and have the minor call his parent Talk to the parents and the parent would talk to the minor to clear up matter, * Did you ever consider explaining to the minor that he be arrested and explained that he would get hurt by stinking his body out while the bus is moving. The lawyer can go over the actual event and question * Did you convince the minor to promise to not open the hatch? * Did it look like you would have give a 5th warning? * Why didn't do something at the third warning? Were you too lenient on the minor? Did you realized the minor was fixated in doing something that will put him into danger? Did you know that the first three miles or so has low bridges? * Did you realize in the events that happen that you distracted the driver while the minor still had the intention of opening the hatch. etc etc I am not determining anything or what the actual outcomes of a possible trial. I am saying there is potential for various outcomes with respect to various parties involved. Someone said the company and the various gov org may sue or counter sue the parents. So its a stalemate. From here on we watch what happens and we might not get to know what a judge has determined. A lawsuit is to bring disagreeing parties to legal outcome. I am not blaming anyone. I am just spelling out the evidence of the matter its not a blame. What can be learned from it? What can be changed about the 40 yr industry issue about the hatch? Get the judge to understand that warning are not effective with minors seeking a thrill and that the route between NY Wash Bridge to NJ is a potential hazard with double Decker party buses when minors open the hatch. This would be some sort of petition that the industry has to change and they will have to figure out how to discourage minors from have thrills with the hatch. Lastly, we won't know how the bureaus and the bus company will interact in this matter, there might be changes or other issue we won't be able to discuss. It could be bushiness as usual file the paper, pay fines, and return to business. We don't know if the bureaus will send fines to the minors parents.

its a wet cold case, lol lets arrest the Freak wave!!! But, hey, they tried to take rescue of each other during an accident, nature won sounds like the movie the perfect storm, anyone wanna arrest a hurricane

Yes there is ... but I don't look forward to the editing and rewrites ... I guess its because we wish to write another story after some RnR But that will distance us from the editing and rewrites .. writing in the same spirit and flavor becomes hard Sometimes we're the mozart of creating stories ... but there are too many to write down

Its ok ... it may take us a while to do edits and rewrites .. we might get there we might get help from a good editor Don't be down about your ability ... someone who can see the spirit and soul of your story will appreciate it who knows you might introduce us to another way of looking or knowing things the story will evolve

lol, nice find!!

you forgot that in humanity the one becomes so important than the many Yes, Titanic, one life lost is as tragic as 1200 ... the 1200 is still be one even thou 700 were saved but what results of evolution of the industry is millions of people saved thats the many that translate to reoccurring revenue that builds up the cruising industry by transforming it We all known the exit hatch or sunroof has been the serious issue for 40 years Now with social media ... perhaps this is a chance for this industry to answer for this long awaited issue it sad to say that minor may have become the martar for this unresolved issue If he becomes the one ... then those in NYC will make his legacy live on transforming the status quo of the limo industry I can't tell you how many lives would be saved but it does matter You forgot humanity won't improve without a death and a battle ... some thing to answer for the call of change Our industrialization is not pro-active ,,, parts of it is ... But this one company might become active in the public eye that could represent a coming of industry change Its all up to the parents, the students, the community ... how they want to remember this minor It sounds like you don't understand the fabric of humanity you made nice dramatic argumentative reactions ... purely entertainment but you are placing blame ... you are blaming me or this thread you wish to always argue with someone, I've noticed it in other threads rather than sticking to facts ... sharing something constructive of your own making of your thoughts of the issue rather than being reactive whatever happens in NYC we will see it unfold if it get publish whatever u say or I say ... doesn't matter ... we will witness humanity in making if they want to rule it no ones fault and do nothing to improve the limo\party-bus industry the issue will be answered on a future date with another victim so be it We may agree or disagree the results of how this events unfolds we're just observers ... specters of their lives .. they won't know or care what we think ... they don't read our threads its not really our crusade ... everything is in their hands of NYC\NJ

yeah your right ... <sighs> the evolution in NYC is in the news we will watch it unfold Some will reach out some will watch it like a sports program Some will be rowdy twitters of mankind

BTW, thank you for your comments ... all of you ... I hope all of you will keep an open mind to the discussion He's a young warrior ... but by WW2 standard ... he is not acceptable to be sent to war From by the comments I've read they would up the age to like 24 before they would send a minor to war Everyone matures at different rates we can't always say that because your 16 or 18 ... get out of house .. make your own life Really people should be certified with a maturity rating and let the statistics studies speak for themselves let say for example, because 10yo has an iq of 2000 ... he can be sent into adulthood but really its no ... he still a child ... not fully matured LOL, lets start a company, you wanna certify your service, let it be tested by legend of minors They will break everything they can But seriously, if we have to hand hold we should, our society\religion is all about lending a hand to lessor guy That's what Jesus was about and that's the tenant's of what the USA was about historically That's what our laws try to do but is complicated by politics and lobbyist and businessmen screaming to make a profit with the "BLOOD AND STEEL" model We should be as cruel as in the 19th, 18th, 16th .... centuries People have commented the minors to be subjects of Darwinism ... the survival of the fittest but that model goes against religion and everything else In a financial planning, that's bad business ... a complete loss of reoccurring income and tax revenue Downgrading adulthood ... its an unsustainable model ... irregular income and high expenses ... hardship ... divorce ... loss of education etc irregular reoccurring income and tax revenue bad for society Social programs giving the false hope until we shut them down because of our economy We be willing to toss children to the ugliness of society ... for trying to grow up too fast We be forcing our gov't to pass various programs to help single mother, pregnancy, teen parenting, college help programs, etc etc Because of our bad economic models ... we are cutting back on the charity ... we all once agreed to help but we can no longer afford it because we allow various industries to be selfish ie: Health Care and Capitalism ... toss in the word communism ... on Health Care not for profit we taint the issue we're trying to solve .. one day only the rich will afford medical care like in the 18th century the poor will be spare parts as they become available We would be supporting the "Death and Taxes" business model that idea would be an endless supply of procreation we don't care about individuals any more we'd support 1984 - big brother - the evil Utopian society if we're instructing minors before a big adventure about personal responsibility and safety .. sure that will help them to survive but not all the parents did that ... if this was a school event ... there be some training but we're calling his death ... personal responsibility ... how do you know he learn it? => by an expiration date of minorhood not all schools teach early parenting and other social programs .. this is NYC ... we're overbook in schools we've cut back on various programs and only offering basic education to support a large population of minors in general brit17yo = usa18yo brit16yo = usa 17yo etc USA is #25 in the world education scale a 17yo brit is way better equip than a 18yo USA a 16yo brit is way better equip than a 16yo USA mmm he is celebrating a girls milestone of being a on the road of a young womanhood ( btw, she was not on the bus ... she was to meet them later at the party the father didn't want to upset her until she got a smartphone msg) the true background of the story The parents plan the party n book the charter The minors plan what they want to get out of this adventure The parents sign away and pay for event Some parents assume things, some parents explain personal responsibility, some didn't explain it The minors has their own of relationship .. their own world ... not always inclusive of parental supervision Perhaps this charter is the cheapest in price and there is a lack of competition for double decker buses but selling luxury with the lowest safety rating for DDPB We have SG that is aware of some of these prom type antics but ignores the escape hatch peeping thats very popular in the industry but a serious issue in the first three miles of the adventure They SG didn't keep in mind of all the antics teens would want to get away with You can call this pre-senioritus ... its a sign they are still minors The death as tragic as it is will make them all grow up a bit sooner that is if they all get counseling and reach out to support groups some move on ... in the next two year go to college n life some will not ,,, that's a sign of low maturity region this be another spot for ppl to blame Darwinism n the gene pool perhaps we will never know the inner drama among the minors that led to this tragedy or maybe we will ... this event is still unfolding

Will Zac come out smelling "Lemon Fresh" after everyone pisses on him? (sorry, I love the pun, its not extended to you but just the comedy of the thread)

I don't care about the popular consensus of the comments in the media about the issue. which comes in a mixture of negative and minimal positive opinions I don't care if the driver or SG or the company gets punished or not Its their TITANIC ... the party bus of dreams That's a consumer model ... the passion for profit ... the overlooking of safety for profit There's a mini-series that appropriately names Titanic => BLOOD AND STEEL It will be a serious review costing more money than putting in safety standards that exceeds industry and gov regulations Have you all forgotten the TITANIC model? Our society is riddle with it. Your good at arguing for the company - as safety became complacent - and profit is the motive Your good at arguing for a case if it was adult clients You good at accepting substandard safety regulations complacent in this industry model. But its not a good argument for minors or even young adults Do you really want your children to receive substandard safety protocols of this industry? Do you really look at this case from all angles in providing the best service and safety? How to provide the best safety and service? The answer is no - your coming from an outside viewpoint. * You got a company that sells the public that they have over 30 years of experience what does that represent when you hear that? what does that mean to you when you book a party bus charter? * You got a company that has actually under-rated its safety The company as a whole only prides itself by meeting antiquated standards and regulations. To pride with 30 years of service ... it means that they should exceed those standards where applicable Other charters require chaperons because of the experience with handling minors You have no idea what the parents thought about safety when planning this party and charter Perhaps they hope that thirty years of experience is enough to insure the safety of minors for a 12 miles trip. * You got an industry that is not motivated by safety concern but motivated by the profit model * You got a company that has overlooked the safety issues of operating a Party Bus in the NY\NJ area You have no idea when this company started using double Decker Party buses and what they did in evaluating safety concerns. You have no idea if this company has check their area industry concerns about double Decker party buses to improve their operating procedures. * The SG lost control of the situation - he facilitated the situation with the distraction of the AC discomfort complained by the passengers He abandon his post and he distracted the driver from his periodic check of the security cameras. Security was at Zero Percent coverage for 2 to 5 minutes He opened up the situation to allow an unsafe issue. * Your not looking things from point of safety that should be part of their pride of service * It seems by this incident that the company has not had its operating procedures updated by outside efficiency and safety consultants. * The guard does not seem to be experience in handling minors. He told but he didn't get through to the minor. He didn't get the minor to acknowledge the understanding of the orders. He didn't engage in educating the minor about safety. He had time to explain why but chose not to - this is where the lack of experience in handling minors. He engage himself with servicing a complaint but not serving safety. He didn't think the minor was worth his breath or concern for safety. He follow low rated regulations of safety he did not follow the instinct and the experience of his job We do not know his effectiveness rating with minors or his employment history. We do not know how the company operates its personnel? One way to get through the minor .. have him call his parents on the CELL Explain the matter ... cancel the desire ... the parents will surely get through to him Don't be lenient if you have to say it more than twice. It appears the minor needs the same strictness as he is use to in his catholic school to get through to him. * You obviously not familiar with that route from Washington Bridge to their destination Its at least two to three miles before the bus would pass areas of safety for this incident to be a non-issue * You don't know what safety introductions the company provided prior to departure or accepting passengers This is a private charter. The planners of the party did not research the safety concerns of this new party bus fade, I've had some experience with how bus charters are. Its really bad. You forgotten when Greyhound has a serious national problems with the bus charters. Why would you think the industry has improved? If you want a politician and business man to sell you on what you all in agreement go hire one ... who is willing to sell you TITANIC where the unthinkable by the public was going to happen in Tragedy facilitated by businessmen and paid off politicians Minors love to explore things ... we all failed to educate them Our society has sunk to lowest level of concern about the safety of minors by what I read from the comment of the media They label this minor as something defective in the gene pool ... that's a party to racism Please review the comments left by society about this situation see how deplorable it is. The media industry would not be caught dead by making those remarks like that They are design to educate or share with us about this incident and get us thinking how to best solve this TITANIC In Titanic, the ship of dreams ... now the party bus Minors are part of those dreams of their parent to wish them well in their future until the companies like White Star Line ended most of those dreams All those comments made by the public would you say them to your children Would you think of your own children that way? You would think of other peoples children that way. You don't know who this minor really is and you don't want to know. But your willing to attack this minor or placate the event Your willing to say that this minor had no place in mankind history Would you say the same thing about Jesus? or Jone of ARC etc etc The 1200 people who died on Titanic ... think of how many third class minor died on that day Are you willing to say that other people minors are third class and you have first class children? This thinking is how we facilitated class warfare, racism and anti-gay events in our history Now we extend this thinking to other people children?

LOL say TMI say TMI Imagine you saying that at the Academy Awards I be ROFL

This is a luxury double Decker limo bus ... it has the latest of everything ... depending on which model and year and custom requirements Its easy to check the AC even you can do it ... its called checking your dashboard ... checking for any obvious problems ... If the AC fails to respond via switches on the dashboard then The driver radios dispatch regarding the problem I'm sure there is digital temperature readout to indicate upper deck n lower deck temperatures Since its not a mechanical problem that stops the bus from getting to its destination - the bus may continue to its destination ( If the Limo company suppose to guarantee the "Sweet 16 package deal" then its up to dispatch to see if they have a spare bus If there is a spare bus the driver returns back to port authority and unloads the passengers Whatever the issue is - the father of the Sweet 16 Party will get an adjusted bill rather than the sad news of a death to a minor ) the driver lets the SG know on the PA system the status of the AC on the bus and any other news If the AC on the 2nd deck is not working and the first deck is working the SG orders the minors to the First deck Assuming all 64 minors can sit on the first deck, if not he orders 32 of them to the first deck The driver has no problems multi-tasking ... you should see women putting makeup on while driving - or a man shaving At 6:30pm on a Friday on the W-Bridge (Labor Day Weekend) its bumper to bumper traffic The risk of decapitation is small but death blow to the head is extremely likely As I said it will be up to the courts to decide liability - I didn't say the death penalty - but then again that's also up to the courts(joke) ( It could be involuntary something but that's up to the courts and lawyers ) Perhaps the worst case someone may lose their job A lesser thing - suspension of their position Public record - I am not sure if it will read about about a death of a minor or what they put on the record But its now news on the internet so everyone knows the SG by name but not the driver Depending on the two (driver\SG) - its up to them if they will continue or quit their job - if they feel that much regret or not Its not everyday someone teen dies on a party bus The kids are all minors - underage 18 - they are put into the care of the limo company and security company for a 20 minute ride (approx) If your arguing Job description then the SG shouldn't be going downstairs - he should be guarding the minors that's his job - he stays on the 2nd deck The driver's other job is securing the first deck If the company did require chaperons then they should be present on either deck, helping out He is there to ensure the safety of a minor who can be a danger to themselves because of a lapse in judgement He's not there for AC comfort ... that is a lapse in judgement thinking a minor would follow verbal instruction A SG trained in guarding minors would know the difference between an adult and minor following instructions A trained SG already knows a minor presents a danger to himself He knows the bus is traveling in the lower deck of the bridge which has a low ceiling as well as overpasses with low ceilings ( If he didn't know this at the time under the bridge then that opens up to another problem This is a first time a I ever heard a SG give an interview that might be a violation in the security manual if this impedes an investigation ... more serious things might happen to him what if the passengers says something to the contrary to the SG interview what if there's more to the story Its ok the students speaking out .. unknown if the parents like it or not or the lawyers ) The SG could have explain it differently after the second time and give a graphic explanation The SG failed to recognized that the teen wanted the thrill of sticking his head out of the hatch; venting the heat was part of the excuse. The "want" and the heat impaired the judgement of the teen from heeding orders. If the minors can't take the heat then he orders the dancing to stops ... or even the party ( If the first deck AC is working and the driver says that on the PA system then the SG instructs the minors to go to the first deck ) he can allow one of the minors to go tell the driver the AC is not working during the first time AC is a problem It all depends on limo company rules about going between decks - I presume its no problem ( the limo company should have an installed an intercom system - thats a cheaply built bus) ( alternatively the SG n Driver should have a radio if the bus doesn't have a intercom) Its low class company to not have a way to radio or intercom each other I will wait for the news to say what happens to either the driver or SG Anyone saying what will happen is an opinion .. no hard feeling if your trying to share facts rather than EMO A death invites a lot of inquiry and red tape that can result in different outcomes You got Port Authority, the bus company, the security company, the city, the state NY\NJ, Insurance companies, the Courts, Medical Examiner, bonding, company history, driver\SG history, police reports, EMS reports, parents, etc. Arguments will be heard like * the hatch should have an alarm * the hatch should have being locked * why weren't there chaperons on the bus * is the SG is trained in handling minors * does the SG, driver, and companies have a clean record * etc etc There can be various outcomes from each of the above (Driver, SG, Limo Security Company, and parents) The parents of the minor and the parents of the sweet 16 party will have somethings to sort out Its not problem if you say nothing will happen to them or if someone else says something will happen Its just an opinion ... proven by the publish results of the courts\news I won't bother addressing the other examples your are specifying as that would be part of soapbox Your extreme concerns in the other examples are also part of soapbox But I won't rule out your opinions .. but be know we're not lawyers ... we're making our best guess and sharing it we're not guaranteeing the results of what will happen or betting the outcome No hard feeling for expressing your POV

http://blog.sfgate.com/dailydish/2012/08/22/nicole-kidman-had-no-qualms-about-peeing-on-zac-efron-for-role/