car shopping

[Lugh]

As most of you who know me know I know nothing about cars... well I need a new one. Bad. I was looking at the Saturn Vue or the Nissian Xterra. Does anyone have any opinions on these cars or suggestions for a similar model?

 

 

 

Thanks!

[hh5]

As most of you who know me know I know nothing about cars... well I need a new one. Bad. I was looking at the Saturn Vue or the Nissian Xterra. Does anyone have any opinions on these cars or suggestions for a similar model?

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Both are way different cars. I only looked at hybrids

 

You looking more truck and suv - thats nissan

 

I was looking at the Saturn Vue Hybrid - but given the economics - probably I have to wait for the plug-in

 

Vue looks more car like and is smaller than nissan

 

The vue looks as close to Subaru Forester and has better performance for an american car.

 

Now if you're going jap - then u got to wait for reviews and that tuff decision

american or jap?

[David McLeod]

Based on the two cars you listed, you're looking for a smallish SUV or what is being called a "crossover." I strongly recommend you check out a large Hyundai dealer's inventory of "lightly used" cars, including those driven by their sales staff in the past year. I have a friend who got an incredible price, and negotiated for a full, new-car warranty on a used Hyundai with less than 20K miles on it. And don't worry about the "nationality" of the car...in the current economy, it's not that important. I don't know enough about Hyundai's models, but the Tucson, Santa Fe, and Veracruz pictures on the corporate web site look like they might be what you're looking for. Here's the link:

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/index.aspx

[rainyday]

If you're looking for a small car based suv, like I think you are, I'd look at the Hyundai Tucson, Subaru Forrester, Toyota Matrix, or Toyota Rav4, also Honda CRV. The Xterra is more truck based if that's what you're looking for and really actually need something with 4WD and good off road capabilities. If it were me I'd probably look at the Subaru Forrester first because they get the best fuel economy, and have gotten great reviews in car magazines, they also have the added benefit of being a very LGBT friendly company. Also if you want really good fuel economy, and a small more suv type vehicle and don't mind buying american, I'd look at the Ford Escape hybrid.

[Mark Arbour]

If you're looking for a small car based suv, like I think you are, I'd look at the Hyundai Tucson, Subaru Forrester, Toyota Matrix, or Toyota Rav4, also Honda CRV. The Xterra is more truck based if that's what you're looking for and really actually need something with 4WD and good off road capabilities. If it were me I'd probably look at the Subaru Forrester first because they get the best fuel economy, and have gotten great reviews in car magazines, they also have the added benefit of being a very LGBT friendly company. Also if you want really good fuel economy, and a small more suv type vehicle and don't mind buying american, I'd look at the Ford Escape hybrid.

I rented a Ford Escape Hybrid last year and I really liked it.

[David McLeod]

I rented a Ford Escape Hybrid last year and I really liked it.

 

 

I drive a Ford Escape...have for several years...has 60K miles on it. Not the hybrid, though. Nice car, but a little noisy on the highway, and the standard sound system can't play against that. Mileage is in the mid-20s.

[rknapp]

Companies to avoid: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford. Hyundai used to be on that list but I think their products have been significantly improved in the last decade, so they're worth a second look.

 

Why do I recommend against those companies? Newer Toyotas are plagued with exploding drivetrains (transaxles and transmissions) especially the SUVs and trucks, but it has been reported in the Camry as well. Also, dealers are notorious for telling customers that the odd noises their new Toyotas are making (which were non-existent when the cars were new) are normal. They're not normal by any stretch of the imagination and point to serious quality issues. Noises reported have typically been clunks and vibrations in the suspension systems of the new Tundra, but I would not be surprised at all if the same thing were to happen to other Toyota models.

 

Honda reliability has not been known to be very good. Their small cars get excellent fuel economy, but Hondas are known for essentially "falling apart" prematurely in terms of quality and fit and finish. Show me a 10 year old Honda that isn't falling apart and I'll show you an 11 year old Chevy that's strong as an ox and only needs some polishing to look strong too, since my mom doesn't clean it. Having said that, a properly taken care of Honda can last for a very long time -- though it will look and feel like a total piece of crap.

 

Nissan -- forget about it. My dad's Infiniti has been in for non-regular service far more times than my own Pontiac, and it's two years newer (not to mention being a very expensive luxury sedan -- the flagship Q45 sedan from 2005). The fit and finish of Nissan and Infiniti is utterly disastrous and my dad wishes he'd bought the Mercedes instead. It's a company car for him which will be turned in in March, and the thing is falling apart at 109,000 miles. By contrast, my Pontiac runs better and is held together much better at 118,000 miles.

 

As for Ford, there is an old saying that describes their products perfectly. "98% of all Fords are still on the road -- the other 2% actually made it home." If you want one, I'm not going to stop you, I'm just saying that Ford reliability is historically not up to par with comparable competitors. Recently Ford boasted that their quality has matched that of Toyota... and that does not bode well for the company at all. If you are looking at anything for a crossover from them, then Escape and Mariner hybrids are two good choices, but I personally wouldn't bother with Ford for all except the premium Lincoln brand.

 

Addressing the models you specified:

Nissan Xterra - see above spiel about Nissan.

Saturn Vue - Saturn reliability has improved in the last decade, but if the Vue's engine is an Ecotec motor, I would stay away. Also, Saturn could quite possibly be on the chopping block and go the way of Oldsmobile (totally eliminated as a brand). Just something to consider if you think you might need a manufacturer's warranty.

 

Now then, for crossovers, I would suggest checking out Dodge and Jeep. I don't know what your budget is or if you're looking primarily for used cars, but the Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave (essentially all the same car, at different pricing and option levels) have been wildly successful and the car mags are raving about them. For Dodge, there is the Nitro, Caliber, and Journey (listed in ascending order of size). Jeep has the Patriot and Liberty. I know two Patriot owners and they love their Patriots. Personally, I would sooner check out Jeep for a crossover SUV than I would Dodge simply because Dodge is in the business of making cars and trucks, while Jeep has been building small SUVs since WWII. I have also known Jeep vehicles to be quite reliable, and if I ever need something with 4WD in the future, I will definitely be looking at Jeeps.

 

If you're looking for something that is not domestic (you unpatriotic bastard! lol j/k), Subaru has a nice AWD system, however I think the only vehicle they make that can be truly classified as an SUV (like the Vue and Xterra) would be the monstrously hideous B9 Tribeca. The Forester is a wagon, with the ground clearance and height of a car. Also, as I mentioned earlier Hyundai's reliability and fit and finish has risen dramatically in the last decade, so it couldn't hurt to check them out.

Edited January 29, 2009 by rknapp

[hh5]

The 2009 Forester has a SUV truck frame which means its MPG is upto 2 MPG less than the 2008 and older models.

The only plus side is that the cargo space has more room by getting rid of the shock mount poles in the cargo area.

So you trade cargo space for truck frame weight.

 

The Vue still suffers this design issue in the cargo bay.

[Mark Arbour]

Companies to avoid: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford. Hyundai used to be on that list but I think their products have been significantly improved in the last decade, so they're worth a second look. Why do I recommend against those companies? Newer Toyotas are plagued with exploding drivetrains (transaxles and transmissions) especially the SUVs and trucks, but it has been reported in the Camry as well. Also, dealers are notorious for telling customers that the odd noises their new Toyotas are making (which were non-existent when the cars were new) are normal. They're not normal by any stretch of the imagination and point to serious quality issues. Noises reported have typically been clunks and vibrations in the suspension systems of the new Tundra, but I would not be surprised at all if the same thing were to happen to other Toyota models. Honda reliability has not been known to be very good. Their small cars get excellent fuel economy, but Hondas are known for essentially "falling apart" prematurely in terms of quality and fit and finish. Show me a 10 year old Honda that isn't falling apart and I'll show you an 11 year old Chevy that's strong as an ox and only needs some polishing to look strong too, since my mom doesn't clean it. Having said that, a properly taken care of Honda can last for a very long time -- though it will look and feel like a total piece of crap. Nissan -- forget about it. My dad's Infiniti has been in for non-regular service far more times than my own Pontiac, and it's two years newer (not to mention being a very expensive luxury sedan -- the flagship Q45 sedan from 2005). The fit and finish of Nissan and Infiniti is utterly disastrous and my dad wishes he'd bought the Mercedes instead. It's a company car for him which will be turned in in March, and the thing is falling apart at 109,000 miles. By contrast, my Pontiac runs better and is held together much better at 118,000 miles. As for Ford, there is an old saying that describes their products perfectly. "98% of all Fords are still on the road -- the other 2% actually made it home." If you want one, I'm not going to stop you, I'm just saying that Ford reliability is historically not up to par with comparable competitors. Recently Ford boasted that their quality has matched that of Toyota... and that does not bode well for the company at all. If you are looking at anything for a crossover from them, then Escape and Mariner hybrids are two good choices, but I personally wouldn't bother with Ford for all except the premium Lincoln brand. Addressing the models you specified: Nissan Xterra - see above spiel about Nissan. Saturn Vue - Saturn reliability has improved in the last decade, but if the Vue's engine is an Ecotec motor, I would stay away. Also, Saturn could quite possibly be on the chopping block and go the way of Oldsmobile (totally eliminated as a brand). Just something to consider if you think you might need a manufacturer's warranty. Now then, for crossovers, I would suggest checking out Dodge and Jeep. I don't know what your budget is or if you're looking primarily for used cars, but the Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave (essentially all the same car, at different pricing and option levels) have been wildly successful and the car mags are raving about them. For Dodge, there is the Nitro, Caliber, and Journey (listed in ascending order of size). Jeep has the Patriot and Liberty. I know two Patriot owners and they love their Patriots. Personally, I would sooner check out Jeep for a crossover SUV than I would Dodge simply because Dodge is in the business of making cars and trucks, while Jeep has been building small SUVs since WWII. I have also known Jeep vehicles to be quite reliable, and if I ever need something with 4WD in the future, I will definitely be looking at Jeeps. If you're looking for something that is not domestic (you unpatriotic bastard! lol j/k), Subaru has a nice AWD system, however I think the only vehicle they make that can be truly classified as an SUV (like the Vue and Xterra) would be the monstrously hideous B9 Tribeca. The Forester is a wagon, with the ground clearance and height of a car. Also, as I mentioned earlier Hyundai's reliability and fit and finish has risen dramatically in the last decade, so it couldn't hurt to check them out.

Gotta call you on this one, at least as far as Honda goes.

[rknapp]

Gotta call you on this one, at least as far as Honda goes.

[Razor]

Gotta call you on this one, at least as far as Honda goes.

[rknapp]

I retract my previous statement against Ford:

 

Ford slashes warranty costs

 

 

Amy Wilson

Automotive News

January 30, 2009 - 4:37 pm ET

 

DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. said today it has reduced global warranty costs by $1.2 billion during the past two years -- $100 million in 2008 and $1.1 billion in 2007.

Since 2004, the per-vehicle warranty repair rate has dropped by 50 percent for U,.S. Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles, the company said.

Ford's biggest quality gains have been on newly launched vehicles compared with the vehicles they replaced, Curt Yun, Ford's director of global warranty, said in a statement.

Said Yun: "The last 24 months have revealed some of our best quality results."

 

They're cars are still ugly as immortal sin. Except Escape and Mustang.

[steph]

The Saturn Vue and the Totota Matrix are made at the same plant and have the same exterior shell, but Toyota's in general have a better residual value. I just leased a Toyota Matrix in December.