Bradley Wiggins

[Yettie One]

Ok

So Mr Bradley Wiggins is on course to be the first British Cyclist to win the Tour de France bike race this weekend, and I have to take my hat off to him and the Sky team for the remarkable success they have had.

 

However........

I was watching the news on ITV tonight and saw them interviewing Chris Hoy. Now he reckons that if Bradley does win on the weekend, he believes it will be the most significant achievement of a British Sportsman ever in the history of sport in the UK!

Erm........... what?

The man wins the Tour de France once and its the greatest achievement in British sport ever?

Ha, sorry I don't get that.

It's a great achievement yes, but the greatest... In my opinion that's pushing the boat out just a little too far.

 

What do you think?

[Bill W]

Maybe if he'd won it a few times, but one win does not greatness make. I'm fairly certain there must be some other significant sport moments in the UK (football, tennis, golf, yachting, swimming, gymnastics or even cricket) that must be rank above this. If not, I feel sorry for you British sport fans. lol

[NotNoNever]

The significant thing, which was not covered in that clip, but was in the longer BBC packages using that clip, is that he has held the yellow jersey after each stage, from day one, which is an extremely rare thjng given the varied nature of the stages as they go through the mountains. To be king of the hill shows a breadth of power that is very unusual in someone who also leads the time trials / sprints. As sport goes, how many British athletes have achieved the ultimate in events which call for this level of endurance? Running a marathon a day for twenty six days doesn't touch it, either, because that is not very uphill, and is at the runner's pace, not a competition pace. I mean, have you guys ever tried cycling up a hill, never mind a bloody mountain, never mind several mountains for days on end after several days of foothill and flat cycling. This is some serious shit. Name another sporting achievement that comes close. None of the ordinary sports do. You'd have to get to extreme cross country for that, and even then the mountain elements are not as mad high as the alpine stretches of the TdeF.

 

Anyway, Yettie, to dispute the claim you'd really need to provide an example of another event / sportster who has achieved anything so remarkable, so we can compare.

Edited July 21, 2012 by NotNoNever

[Andy78]

Two greater feats than winning one single cycle race are:

 

Sir Steve Redgrave winning a fifth consecutive Olympic gold medal in the rowing in 2000 - capping of a career of 5 golds and 1 bronze at the Olympics, 12 World Championship medals (9 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze), and 3 Commonwealth golds at the same games.

 

Jim Laker's ten wicket test match haul against Australia in 1956 (becoming the first person ever in a test match to achieve this incredible feat, and only the second person in the history of the game - the only other person was Anil Kumble in 1999) and actually took nineteen out of the twenty wickets in that match (a record that has stood ever since and may never be broken). For those unfamiliar with cricket and more familiar with baseball, the feat would be akin to a single pitcher getting every single batter out but sharing the pitching equally with four other pitchers, and rotating after every six pitches.

 

These are just two, and I really don't want to bore people with a load of cricket stats. Suffice to say that England holds two records for the biggest victory margins in a game and those records have stood for over eighty years.

 

 

Oh yeah - I forgot one: Wembley 1966

Edited July 21, 2012 by andy021278

[Bleu]

Ok

So Mr Bradley Wiggins is on course to be the first British Cyclist to win the Tour de France bike race this weekend, and I have to take my hat off to him and the Sky team for the remarkable success they have had.

 

However........

I was watching the news on ITV tonight and saw them interviewing Chris Hoy. Now he reckons that if Bradley does win on the weekend, he believes it will be the most significant achievement of a British Sportsman ever in the history of sport in the UK!

Erm........... what?

 

Maybe he meant in the history of the sport (i.e. of cycling)?

[Andy78]

Maybe he meant in the history of the sport (i.e. of cycling)?

 

Or maybe he meant in the history of cycling in 2011

[Yettie One]

Heya NNN

 

I didn't see the BBC coverage as you say, and maybe that may have made a little more sense had I seen it, however I still dispute the statement but would tend to agree with Bill on this one.

I take your point about the stamina needed to endure the the race as a race leader in the way Bradley has, but in all honesty it is the nature of the TdeF, and while I have not tried riding up mountains for fun, let alone a sport, it is what you'd expect from a cyclist in the TdeF.

 

Each sport has its own unique challenges, so does one that requires great physical demand like the TdeF make the achievement of another sports person less significant? Nah, I don't think that is fair in my opinion, but again that is only my opinion.

 

You suggested comparing him against someone else. Again not something I think it is fair to do, as each sports person has made their own remarkable achievements, as has Bradley, within their own respective sports.

 

I mean lets just think of a few.....

 

I agree with Andy about Sir Steve Redgrave. But we also have Daley Tompson and Dame Kelly Holmes who have both significantly won gold over sustained years in their own individual events. They maintained their fitness over years of competition and won for Britain on a global platform. What about Seb Coe in his time?

 

If we want to consider greatness in their own sporting arena, what about Torval and Dean? As impressive as a TdeF winner in terms of endurance? Maybe not, but still no less significant in terms of their commitment to their sport or the level of success they have achieved.

 

Mathew Pinsent won gold over four consecutive games spanning 16 years. He and Steve Redgrave set the bar in terms of longevity and endurance. Pretty damn impressive in my book.

 

What about Roger Banister and the four minute mile? Maybe not as significant now, but at its time it was ground breaking and put the man and UK athletics on the map!

 

Then we have Sir Bobby Charlton. He lead the team in the 1966 golden moment, and went on to become one of the greatest names in UK football.

 

What about Nigel Mansel, a 31 times winner in the world of F1, a career that spanned 15 seasons on the F1 Grand Prix circuit.

 

Then we have possibly one of my favourite sports men, Martin Johnson who lead the British rugby team to lift the rugby world cup against all the odds. Of course if we talk rugby, think about Johnny Wilkinson who holds records for the most number of drop goals, the most number of points in a Rugby World Cup and is the only player to have scored in two rugby world cups. That aside from the fact he has kicked over 1099 points in his career.

 

In the world of cricket can we forget Ian Botham or Wally Hammond, two giants of the game? Don't forget Paul Collingwood who has a fantastic One Day record.

 

In boxing Joe Calzaghe is still the undisputed and undefeated champion of the world, having won 44 out of 44 fights, a stunning record. Let's also take our hats off to Ken Buchanan who won a grand total of 61 of his 69 professional fights, and is still regarded as one of the finest British boxers.

 

Rebecca Adlington is our most successful swimmer and Tom Daley is our youngest ever world champion, having won that title at 14.

 

Lots of different sporting achievements. Any of them as great as Bradley Wiggins? Hell yeah, if you put each into the context of its own sporting accolades then they are fine achievements.

 

While I totally respect what Wiggins has achieved, I just feel it is not necessarily the finest sporting achievement of any British sports person.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yettie One

[joann414]

I have to go with Yettie and Andy on this. There's too much British greatness out there to even put this one in the spotlight for the time it took to write the article. Torvilll and Dean immediately came to mind for me. but I love ice skating, and they made magic on the ice. JMO

[NotNoNever]

well, guys and gals, the argument is self defeating! Hoy was talking about the history of British sport period. Not the history of British sport in their own contexts. Bannister etc way far back were impressive then, but ridiculous now in terms of their times. Not to denigrate their achievements in context, but in history? Comparing oher people who have competed over time doesn't work either, because Wiggins is obviously at the top of his game atm, which will have taken him a whole long time to achieve. It doesn't work with the likes of rowers or boxers because they have loads of time to train between events. Wiggins does this daily for oodles of days, back to back, that takes serious class. Torvill & Dean don't compare, because that is skill, not endurance. Let's not forget that ice dance is rather disputed as an Olympuc discipline because it has a high degree of subjectivity - a similar reason to why snowboarding and synchronised swimming were so challenged. BTW, in my opinion, T&D were superb - that Bolero - OMG!

 

Wiggins gets up with people like Scott or Bonnington for their achievements, because of their sustained effort over a long period. Which is why I brought up extreme cross country runners - that's fitness and application. Jonny Wilkinson? Get a grip! 1966? Get a new achievement (or manager or team or something). Daley Thompson? Never had a lunchbox like Lynford! Pinsent etc? Short bursts over a long number of years. Adlington? Nope! The swimmer boy - it's like jumping off a log - backwards! And anything cricket? Pulleeze! Take six ten yard runs and swap to the next guy cos you've failed! That's not dedication, it's deadication. Y'all will be claiming soon that ping pong is a candidate, though should that not be wiff waff?

 

Take a long hard think about what you, personally could do, and how close could you get to any of these people, relatively. And then I think you'll find that in terms of human fitness, dedication, sustained competitive challenge, Wiggins is one of those you would feel least likely to be able emulate.

 

And if that's not convincing enough of an argument for you, think of this - Wiggins has been dubbed Le Gentleman by the French. In terms of powers, that's deitic, by the way

Edited July 21, 2012 by NotNoNever

[Yettie One]

Oh NNN,

 

I could see us finishing a case of wine and debating this one till the cows came home, even if somewhat slurred and in a drunken state after that much consumption of inkahole!

 

I did agree that I don't dispute that Bradley has made an incredible achievement in a fine fashion, but again I'd say that it is the TdeF and this is what you expect from a cyclist who has trained to perform at this level. If you were arguing that it was a regular Joe Bloggs who suddenly got on a bike and pulled this off, I'd be right there with you saying, wow, that is possibly one of the greatest sporting achievements the British Nation has ever seen, however, in this instance I am not surprised, nor astounded that a cyclist has achieved what they set out, trained and worked to achieve.

 

Mark Cavindish has won 22 stages of the TdeF in his career, and is regarded as one of the best sprint finishers in the sport. Froome is also having a remarkable season. Credit where credit is due, Team Sky have pulled out all the stops and done well. Wiggins and the others really do deserve the attention they are getting, but I still stand by my opinion that it is not the greatest achievement of every British sports person past and present.

 

I accept your difference of opinion, and I can see your point of view, but don't dismiss other sporting achievements quite as easily as you have above. Each to their own I guess, and for the record, ping pong was not part of this debate but now you mention it............

 

Lol, I do love a good ol discussion.

[joann414]

If i promise not to mention skating, Can I just come for the wine and listen?