Spineless Students and Stupid Teachers

[Wingless]

My english teacher last year did absolutely nothing. The school had a problem, so our health teacher had to teach english. the thing is, she had no idea how to teach. So she stole stuff from other teachers to give to us. Most of the stuff however, was from my english teacher the year BEFORE. That was just stupid.

[colinian]

Ahem!!!!!!

 

Well, I don't know why you have horrible teachers, but I think you need to cut them some slack. I go to a school that switched to block schedule about 2 years ago. Most of our excellent teachers are now fairly mediocre, except a couple. Those two are retiring; one's fifty-four, the other is only thirty-four. I think it's the way that we are pushing for QUANTITY of graduates, instead of QUALITY of graduates that's affecting us. The only reason why block schedule (4 classes per semester as opposed to 6 classes a year) was implemented was because there were a bunch of idiots repeating their senior year in order to graduate.

 

My Spanish teacher (yes, I took Spanish... easy credit ) is amazing, but I swear to god that that woman must be super-human. She's basically the only teacher that cares for her students at the school anymore... I think the system has screwed her up. And it pisses me off, that the government is overworking our teachers and affecting those of us who choose to take higher-level classes. Do you honestly expect someone to become spanish-fluent in 4 semesters? That's just blasphemy.

 

There is something unbalanced in our teachers nowadays... it is motivation. And students that whine all day about it are the ones that tip the balance even MORE and burn them out. Though I must say myself... I am burned out. I used to enjoy writing essays for my English classes, and going to Calculus most days... but now... I swear to god it pisses me off that I have ONE semester to turn in 40 art projects. I take my time with art, because I shoot for quality. 2 years ago it was possible to render with both quality and quantity standards, but now I'm having to do simplistic paintings, drawings, and shadows of pieces that I know I could've done so much better on.

 

It's NOT the teachers that are screwed up, please don't blame them. Would you like teaching a class that you know will most likely not be prepared for college anyway? I don't think so.

 

Birds

 

P.S.

I don't mean to offend TheReaper of Razor for their opinions. I am quite symphatetic, actually. Though I know this teacher personally, and it offends ME as well.

One of the high school districts in the county where I live has switched to block scheduling. The idea is that block scheduling has kids take 4 classes each semester, 8 each year, with longer class periods and a more "in depth" claassroom experience that's supposed to be more like college. Yesterday about 50 kids in AP classes in one of that district's high schools walked out of class in protest. They said that the schedule forces them to take AP exams either too long after learning class material in the fall or before they have covered it all in the spring. AP tests are given by the College Board.

 

I'm sure glad my HS doesn't use block scheduling!

 

Colin

[Razor]

I LOVE block scheduling! It's so wonderful! There's so much more time for GOOD teachers to teach.

 

Then, we have this standardized testing nonsense that interferes with it. AP classes are mostly a joke, anyway. Hardly any high school teachers are actually qualified to teach on a collegiate level.

[colinian]

I LOVE block scheduling! It's so wonderful! There's so much more time for GOOD teachers to teach.

 

Then, we have this standardized testing nonsense that interferes with it. AP classes are mostly a joke, anyway. Hardly any high school teachers are actually qualified to teach on a collegiate level.

The number of hours for each class is the same in both regular and block scheduled classes. The difference is whether that material is taught in one semester or two. I think that good teachers can effectively teach either regular or block scheduled classes.

 

The quality of teachers for AP classes depends on the quality standards of the school district. The high school district my school's in is rated #2 in California based on test scores, GPA, number going on to college, number going to the University of California, SAT scores, and a lot of other measurements. We have excellent teachers in almost all classes. I've only had two classes where I didn't like the teachers, Biology and Spanish 2. Oh, and probably all of my PE teachers! All of my AP classes had/have great teachers.

 

I have a friend who goes to a HS in the eastern part of my county that uses block scheduling. He says they have lots of problems. Block 4 is set up to allow "half-block" classes, like Study Hall, Health, PE, and Varsity Sports. That lets the state PE requirement be met without having to devote a full block to PE and only having PE one semester in grades 9 and 10. Classes that would only be one semester long in a regular schedule like Communications Studies, Journalism, Creative Writing, and some music, drama, art, and vocational classes are only offered as half-block classes in block 4 which causes conflicts. The school day is 7:30 to 3:10 and lunch is early, 11:05 to 11:40 in his school. Many courses aren't offered both semesters, so if you want to take Psychology and Geology in your senior year you might not be able to because they are offered in the same block in the same semester. AP classes are usually offered only once a year, so there can be schedule conflicts there. He says their class size average is 35 students, and some classes have as many as 42 students. In my HS the class size average is 23. He said that he thinks block scheduling would work better if there were 4,000 students in his HS instead of 2,450, then they could offer more sessions of popular classes and prevent schedule conflicts.

 

Razor, how does your HS solve these problems?

 

Colin

[glomph]

In grades 9-12 I had pretty consistently good teachers. I had several amazingly exceptional teachers. This was in a town in the South, so it's not like we had exceptional resources or were some kind of culture magnet. Most of the jobs in the town were in textile mills.

 

I won't claim that that was the norm then. I know I was very lucky. I do wonder what has changed to make that kind experience even less likely.

 

Salaries for teachers may even be higher, on a relative scale, than they were then in our area.

 

The job of teacher has changed, I know. There is a lot more busy work and forms and reports. I've already mentioned having to spend so much time coaching for standardized tests and loss of respect. I know good people who have left the field over those things, and others who are going to retire as soon as practical.

 

One thing I hestitate to mention, because I think it is an otherwise good thing, but I suspect is a big factor, is that women can now get jobs in so many other fields. Back when my teachers were in college, intelligent women didn't have that many other possibilities outside of teaching and nursing. Back when men worked and women stayed home and raised kids, being a teacher was socially acceptable as a career for married women. Now it is the norm for more women to work, but also they have so much broader range of options. The brightest women who would in the past have become teachers now can be doctors, lawyers, or many other things more lucrative and higher status than teaching.

[Drewbie]

I had mostly good jobs, we had a/b days which is block scheduling, Think sometimes it depends what hte resources are from books and training.

[The Reaper]

Ahem!!!!!!

 

Well, I don't know why you have horrible teachers, but I think you need to cut them some slack. I go to a school that switched to block schedule about 2 years ago. Most of our excellent teachers are now fairly mediocre, except a couple. Those two are retiring; one's fifty-four, the other is only thirty-four. I think it's the way that we are pushing for QUANTITY of graduates, instead of QUALITY of graduates that's affecting us. The only reason why block schedule (4 classes per semester as opposed to 6 classes a year) was implemented was because there were a bunch of idiots repeating their senior year in order to graduate.

 

My Spanish teacher (yes, I took Spanish... easy credit ) is amazing, but I swear to god that that woman must be super-human. She's basically the only teacher that cares for her students at the school anymore... I think the system has screwed her up. And it pisses me off, that the government is overworking our teachers and affecting those of us who choose to take higher-level classes. Do you honestly expect someone to become spanish-fluent in 4 semesters? That's just blasphemy.

 

There is something unbalanced in our teachers nowadays... it is motivation. And students that whine all day about it are the ones that tip the balance even MORE and burn them out. Though I must say myself... I am burned out. I used to enjoy writing essays for my English classes, and going to Calculus most days... but now... I swear to god it pisses me off that I have ONE semester to turn in 40 art projects. I take my time with art, because I shoot for quality. 2 years ago it was possible to render with both quality and quantity standards, but now I'm having to do simplistic paintings, drawings, and shadows of pieces that I know I could've done so much better on.

 

It's NOT the teachers that are screwed up, please don't blame them. Would you like teaching a class that you know will most likely not be prepared for college anyway? I don't think so.

 

Birds

 

P.S.

I don't mean to offend TheReaper of Razor for their opinions. I am quite symphatetic, actually. Though I know this teacher personally, and it offends ME as well.

 

Yeah dont fret about it bra. But i did do a fair share of generalizing when i said what i said. You say its all motivation...well if the teachers arent happy teaching what they're teaching, then DONT TEACH ANYMORE!! If motivation is the problem then either get over it, fake it, or dont teach anymore. I have a favorite teacher of mine, i might not get along with her, but shes my favorite. Why? Because she comes to class ready to teach, with a good vibe and happy that shes teaching. I dont like her personally, but as a teacher, shes my favorite because she just gets everyone in a good mood and shes VERY enthusiastic....korny, but enthusiastic lol.

 

So let me rephrase what i said before: Teachers (in general) are not all bad. Good and bad teachers are subjective (just as ANYTHING labeled "good and bad"). BUT, i think we can all agree that teachers who LIKE to teach what they are currently teaching, are generally seen as a "better" teacher than those who dont appreciate what they teach. And IM saying that the MAJORITY of teachers these day dont like teaching what they teach anymore (or they just plain dont appreciate what they're given.....aka a JOB).

 

 

Ian

[colinian]

...Salaries for teachers may even be higher, on a relative scale, than they were then in our area.

The cost of living where I live is very high. The newspaper this week had an article about median home prices. In our county it's $341,000. In the town where I live the median price for a house is $560,000. A 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment here rents for $2,100/month. If a teacher is making $60,000/year they can't afford to live here unless they have a husband/wife/partner who works. Some of my teachers live in East County where houses, condos, and apartments are less expensive. They have long commutes in order to have affordable housing costs. These are teachers salaries in my HS district:

 

Beginning Teacher Salary.....$32,424

Mid-Range Teacher Salary....$60,785

Highest Teacher Salary........$76,184

 

Teachers are underpaid, and all people do is bitch about how much money the schools get from taxes. Trouble is, what school districts here get from taxes isn't enough to run the schools. I'm lucky, I live in an upper middle class to upper class area and parents are very supportive of the schools. My HS gets almost 1/3 of their budget every year from a local parcel tax and money raised by our HS Foundation and PTSA. Without that money my HS would be very different.

 

I would consider being a teacher, but it just doesn't pay enough. So I'm going to get a degree in computer science instead. That's sad. We need teachers, and I think I could be a good teacher.

 

Colin

[kojaky]

high school did not prepare me for college. I was clueless as to what i wanted to do. Fortunately, i took a 6 week program before college started and they showed us the bridge from high school to college and of course complained about high school teachers not prepping us. I'm glad to have taken that course or else i would have been :wacko:

[Dio]

SO, I argued him down about it. I tried over and over to explain my logic and math, and let him know that he was indeed incorrect. No one else spoke up. They were perfectly content to sit there and let the teacher tell them the wrong answer, knowing he was wrong, and just accept it. The reason America is falling behind other countries is not because we don't go to school long enough, or anything like that. It's our teachers who can't teach, and our students who won't stand up for their rights. I hope the day comes soon when they're both ashamed of their actions.

 

I'm not going to argue either way, because the question wasn't asked properly. Maybe he's an idiot. Who cares.

 

You're going about this the wrong way. You've realized the problem. You know what's right. So what if your teacher acknowledges it or not? I used to go through the same pains until I realized it was better to just keep the right answer to myself. Like you're obviously doing, the point of learning is not just to learn mindlessly, but to analyze every bit of information you're fed. No-one is perfect. There are a lot of idiots out there. It doesn't matter.

 

What do you care if twenty brainless nitwits just swallow whatever horse shit is being taught these days without analyzing it for themselves? I wouldn't. It just means twenty less competitors for that scholarship to 'insert name of school here'. Yeah, that's a selfish way of looking at things but hey...you can't win 'em all.

 

Just remember that catching teachers in logical fallacies is not as important as the actual information you learn from the fallacy itself. Don't get upset. Just smile and pretend like you agree with him. The power balance in schools is unfair to begin with. When you're managing that multimillion dollar corporation and he's still teaching horse shit, you can go back and laugh at him all you want.

 

hugz,

db

[Lugh]

Sighs

 

and we wonder why I homeschool....

 

Seriously, I was having these kinds of problems for 4th grade. The teacher did not know a verbal from a noun, nor could she do SIMPLE maths. It took me gathering together fifty mis-graded pages (in one nine-week period) and sending them to the STATE schoolboard before they even looked into the problem. The local schoolboard tried to tell me "the teacher is always correct". During all this, they would send notes home, or call, to have me come in for conferences, trying to tell me that my son was 'mouthy' because he would question the teacher.

 

It is my firm belief that most school boards do not want students who think for themselves, they want children, teenagers, and adults, who accept what 'authority figures' say without question, and they do this systematically beginning in kindergarten. What is worse is how parents respond. There is a little girl in our neighborhood, she constantly gets put on "yellow" for talking. She is in the first grade. Her mother did not ask her why she was talking, only punished her for getting on yellow. This went on for weeks. Finally it came out that another child was bullying her, and when she tried to speak up, she was repremanded by the teacher. How did this all come out? The bully cut 12 inches of hair off the little girl -- literally removing one of her pigtails. Why did she sit there and let him? She had been told by the teacher if she so much as moved she would go on red... and the child had been made to terrify going on red more than having the other child cut her hair.

 

Granted, these are 'extreme' cases. But they are not unusual ones.

 

I don't believe so much in teacher apathy... I do believe that the 5 to 7 classes a teacher must have in order to teach does not adequately prepare a person to face 20 - 40 children. They speak of 'student teaching' -- in most places that is ONE college semester. Maybe the key to teacher preperation is in actually preparing teachers. I know budget cuts have a lot to do with the mounting tensions on teachers. They no longer have aides so they have to do all the prep work, all the 'grunt' work, all the paperwork... for ever-increasing class sizes. I also believe that "no student left behind" is a bunch of bull. Some students need to be left behind -- those who do not try, who are just biding their time until they are old enough to drop out... but the kids who have learning differences, they are the ones who are getting shafted Many of them receive a "certificate of completion" instead of a high school diploma at the end of twelfth grade. If these differences were addressed better the difference wouldn't be a difference at all.

 

In Virginia they have the "standards of learning", basically they "standardized" teaching. The teachers were given a schedule and told to follow the plan... they teach the same thing in every classroom in that grade across the state. This means if there are 30 students in the class and the teacher has spent the 3 allowed days on long division and 21 students mostly understand it (enough to pass a test with 70% accuracy). The other 7 are not given remedial instruction, it's now time to study fractions. Sorry. Can't leave you behind, but can't take the time to teach either. Hope you catch it next year.

 

I guess what my rambling is trying to say is the problem isn't necessarily with the teacher. It's with the system, and it's not going to change until people start questioning why the system is like it is.

 

In the school system that DC should be attending 70% of high school graduates only read on the 8th grade level. This is acceptable for the system. You want to know how to fix it? In a way you already are... you see a problem. It will get worse before it gets better, unfortunately for the kids stuck in it for now. But it has to get better.

 

Sighs, anyway that's my rant...

 

Lugh

[The Reaper]

I don't believe so much in teacher apathy... I do believe that the 5 to 7 classes a teacher must have in order to teach does not adequately prepare a person to face 20 - 40 children. They speak of 'student teaching' -- in most places that is ONE college semester. Maybe the key to teacher preperation is in actually preparing teachers. I know budget cuts have a lot to do with the mounting tensions on teachers. They no longer have aides so they have to do all the prep work, all the 'grunt' work, all the paperwork... for ever-increasing class sizes. I also believe that "no student left behind" is a bunch of bull. Some students need to be left behind -- those who do not try, who are just biding their time until they are old enough to drop out... but the kids who have learning differences, they are the ones who are getting shafted Many of them receive a "certificate of completion" instead of a high school diploma at the end of twelfth grade. If these differences were addressed better the difference wouldn't be a difference at all.

 

 

 

I second, third AND fourth that notion. And all of this talk here, is why i want to become a teacher.

 

 

Ian

[colinian]

The teachers at my HS all have degrees; that is required to be able to teach in California:

Bachelor's Degree...........................16.0%

...plus 30 or more semester hours...........48.1%

Master's Degree.............................14.8%

...plus 30 or more semester hours...........19.8%

Doctorate Degree.............................1.2%

 

Teachers must also have a teaching credential which requires the following:

 

California Secondary School Teacher Certification Requirements

 

Requirements for the Preliminary Credential

The preliminary credential is issued for a maximum of five years. If requirements for the professional clear credential are

not completed before the expiration of the preliminary, the holder will be unable to teach in California

[The Reaper]

Let's apply your logic. You're a student, if you don't like your teachers, then stop going to school.

 

 

 

Tried that before. Im not of legal age to drop out. lol, despite my profile, im only 15. Although i do pass for eighteen (hence me buying smokes)! So yeah, dont think i haven't tried that one before lol. Actually, i told my Assistant Principal today that i hated him and this school....he told me to drop out, and after i replied "Been there, tried that," he was left speechless because i was so serious about it. I HATE school, i think it and "the system" are both wrong and need to kicked out and reformed. But this is not the place or the time to discuss my thoughts on this subject ! SO ill jsut leave it at this.......ive tried getting out of here, and i cant till im eighteen.

 

 

I hate the teachers i see so often these days, and thats why im becoming a teacher.....just to let ya know.

 

 

 

P.S. no disrespect intended....just my thoughts and ideas and ill fight for em till i die lol

Edited February 9, 2007 by The Reaper

[Matthew]

A lot of studies have shown the underpaid teacher belief is a myth. Yes, teachers salaries look small. But when one looks payment per hour, even when including grading homework and class planning done at home, teachers, on average, make more than bio chemists with much more advanced degrees. This doesn't even account for benefits, for which teachers are second to only one profession in the percentage of their pay they also receive in benefits - on average over 20%. The problem is not underfunded schools. Certain schools have been sued for being under funded and had, literally, millions of dollars poured into them and test scores continued to decline. Whereas St. Louis cut its budget in half and hired a private company to run the school district and scores skyrocketed.

 

The problem is that public schools, and their teachers, generally have no incentive to do well. If a voucher system was implemented, where tax dollars follow the student to whichever school their parents see as best, be it public or private, schools would have to improve their programs to keep students and their funding. This would cause them to get rid of poor teachers and reward those who do well.

 

John Stossel did an excellent report on this called "Stupid in America".

[Drewbie]

There are areas' where Teachers should be paid more, they can hardly even afford that area, and are great teachers, Studies I find most of the time are false and only like to show what's in their favor.

 

Esp on some special education area's they have to take on bigger task and not rewareded or get extra things, which is crap, Coming from a child who's mom is a teacher.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Drewbie

[Matthew]

There are areas' where Teachers should be paid more, they can hardly even afford that area, and are great teachers, Studies I find most of the time are false and only like to show what's in their favor.

 

Esp on some special education area's they have to take on bigger task and not rewareded or get extra things, which is crap, Coming from a child who's mom is a teacher.

There are probably some areas. Which is why I said "on average" which most studies back up. I'm sorry that you feel that way about studies, but that hardly means these studies are wrong and that we should rely purely on anecdotal evidence. Of course teachers will feel they're under paid. I'm sure if you asked most people they'd say that they're underpaid. But when you look at per hour compensation and then benefits, it just doesn't pan out.

[Drewbie]

No I didn't just ask them, I know what kind of environments are, some places teachers do get paid crap, alot of times they have to get extra jobs. and I certinly don't want a private corporation running a school district.

 

Oh I guess you also must mean those wonderful studes saying having gay parents are such a horrable thing for kids.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Drewbie

[Matthew]

No I didn't just ask them, I know what kind of environments are, some places teachers do get paid crap, alot of times they have to get extra jobs.

Many people have to get extra jobs. If you get a summer off (and I'm not saying all teachers do) then you should have to get a second job. The problem with people saying they "have to" is that when many people responded to a survey saying that they both "have" to work to get by, but when you look at the living situation, they have 2 drivers i nthe household and three cars. In many cases people trade off extra time for additional income which is a choice they make.

 

and I certinly don't want a private corporation running a school district.

Why not, pray tell?

 

Oh I guess you also must mean those wonderful studes saying having gay parents are such a horrable thing for kids.

 

There are studies that show that a family with a male and female as parents are the best thing for the children. This doesn't mean that gay parents are horrible or that a heterosexual couple is better for a child in every case. This could be the case simply because societal norms dictate this and deviations cause children to be singled out, but just because you don't like the results doesn't make them any less true.

[Drewbie]

I don't want to be in a school by a corperation, cause I don't want to dress like they want me to, feed there bs, guess you don't mind thinking like everyone else, and not having ur own mind.

 

 

 

So ontop of having wonderful gay parents around the work and in the us there not so okay, and you must be agree with those people that are anti gay? and look I have friends that are from gay families, are fine people, but guess so many still must think they are not, you one of them? Also str8 couple homes are better even there there abused in those homes, in Netherlands, it doesn't seem that gee having gay kids are a horriable thing, I would love to see the day when it shouldn't have to matter, but some just don't want it that way. sad world we live in.

 

you a self hating gay?

Edited February 9, 2007 by Drewbie

[Matthew]

I don't want to be in a school by a corperation, cause I don't want to dress like they want me to, feed there bs, guess you don't mind thinking like everyone else, and not having ur own mind.

The corporation would have no more or less ability to do this than the government does now.

 

So ontop of having wonderful gay parents around the work and in the us there not so okay, and you must be agree with those people that are anti gay? and look I have friends that are from gay families, are fine people, but guess so many still must think they are not, you one of them?

 

you a self hating gay?

I don't really understand your first question. Could you state it another way?

 

Again, the fact that you see examples where the trend isn't true doesn't negate the trend itself. Even if they are better parents but it causes the child to be ostricized (as a specific example, I'm not saying this is always or even usually the case) for being different, then it still may be worse for the child.

 

I'm not a "self hating gay", but I may have used to be. Either way, it's not germane to this topic and would in no way invalidate my points.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Matthew

[Drewbie]

what would you like to see then, Corporations running every school, is it the best way for America?

 

For anyone else really what is the best way to change these schools that need attention?

 

Sorry for those other comments btw matt, just I think alot of those things with blasting gay parents to me is ignorant in our culture.

 

For one thing, I know one teacher I did have, eh I think he should of been retired, and review of how they can teach better, and get rid of that after 8 or ten year thing that teacher is basically, non fire able unless abusing or harrising a staff member or student.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Drewbie

[Matthew]

what would you like to see then, Corporations running every school, is it the best way for America?

A private sector organization, perhaps, but it's not needed. Publically run schools are fine if the parents can send the tax a dollars paying for their childs education to a private school if that school is better.

 

Sorry for those other comments btw matt, just I think alot of those things with blasting gay parents to me is ignorant in our culture.

It's ok, I understand how certain bigoted comments can be frustrating.

 

For one thing, I know one teacher I did have, eh I think he should of been retired, and review of how they can teach better, and get rid of that after 8 or ten year thing that teacher is basically, non fire able unless abusing or harrising a staff member or student.

I hate tenure (which makes them almost unfirable) as well and am glad my school has nothing like that. Certain teachers unions have become so powerful that they have created something much worse. For instance, in New York City, it is so difficult to fire teachers that they don't fire teachers who actually do things like harass students (it was found in one instance that a teacher sent sexually explicit emails to an underage student and the teacher admitted it) because it's not worth it for the school to fire them because of the lengthy and expensive process involved. They have dozens of teachers like this that they can't allow around students but can't afford to fire, and so they just sit in rooms together day after day.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Matthew

[Drewbie]

.

I hate tenure (which makes them almost unfirable) as well and am glad my school has nothing like that. Certain teachers unions have become so powerful that they have created something much worse. For instance, in New York City, it is so difficult to fire teachers that they don't fire teachers who actually do things like harass students (it was found in one instance that a teacher sent sexually explicit emails to an underage student and the teacher admitted it) because it's not worth it for the school to fire them because of the lengthy and expensive process involved. They have dozens of teachers like this that they can't allow around students but can't afford to fire, and so they just sit in rooms together day after day.

 

Wow, I agree I think parents should be able to send to private schools, Have family up in pg county Maryland, probably one of the worst in Maryland, cousin went to private elem and middle (same building) til they moved to another county on md, public schools in pg, there so many kids, not alot of them graduated from some schools, some don't have central air,and so on,

 

Only thing with private hopefully if some how govt or some other program gets involed, that if a special needs care kid comes, since some schools systems don't have good ones, as of now they don't have to do that, and what about kids in wheel chairs, and even with colleges, one goes to a private one, he has a hard time getting around that campus..

 

Rant over

 

Again sorry.