B1ue

She found employment at a middle-class hat shop near Picadilly Circus in order to relieve her boredom?

Won't deny the skinny, but I'm 5'10". I used to be quite short, especially in high school. But then I got to college and could suddenly see over everyone's heads. Naturally, I now work at a place were the average employee height is 6'.

That's just crazy talk. I was actually fairly surprised by how comfortable skinny jeans actually are. They *look* like you can hardly move or breath in them, but the ones I have are cut well and fit fine. I tend to wear them now when traveling, because denim travels well and they are thin enough that they pack pretty tight. Plus, it drives my family bonkers when I wear them, so that's always a plus.

I won't speak for Tim, but my problem with Will's character as written is that he demands no one else object to his drummer. Which while some people grow out of that, a lot of people don't, too.

Okey dokey. Either way, I was wrong, Tim was right. As Timothy put it, I would have placed Will's reaction a bit later in the domino chain, since, as you said, it is a reaction to a reaction too. I am curious, if Wally, Clara, and Zach's reactions to Will's outburst are off the table for criticism, what makes Will's reaction different? At the risk of repeating myself, Will contributed to this mess, certainly, but for once I wouldn't say he initiated it. I don't even think he reacted out of line in response to the stimulus; it's hard for me to imagine anyone in a similar situation *not* blowing up at their significant other for blowing them off like that. Although Will's reaction was on the extreme end of acceptable, in my opinion. Edit: forgot to add that you make excellent points regarding Will not acting as supportive towards Zach as he possibly could. I suspect that, to Barry, the REAL promise to Will was, "Don't try to distract Zach, and I won't try to remove you." Not that this was what he was trying to do, but I imagine if Zach had gone to the exhibition Barry would have had another chat with Zach about not letting ultimately temporary things, like a first love, not ruin the rest of his life. I don't want you to think I'm laughing at you, but this is hilarious to me. I literally have a degree in exactly this kind of analysis and character bashing. I about cried myself laughing when I came across this one post that said the only difference between an internet fandom war and the upper tiers of literature study is citations. Because, really, that's basically it.

No lie, there.

As far as what I was talking about? Not really. Edit: I'm not attempting to judge Brad for having that bias. In fact, I'm pretty sure I would as well, in his shoes. I was mostly trying to establish that he had such a bias, and that his innermost thoughts, although unvoiced, are acceptable fodder when discussing the existence of a bias. Does that make more sense? Bluntly, that's less autonomy than I had, my siblings had, or any of my friends, up to an including which high school we went to and moving in with a relative if that was necessary to pull it off. So yeah, that's pretty weird to me, and looks like micromanagement from my perspective, although I can certainly accept that it would just look like parenting from yours. Also, let's not exaggerate. They, Wally and Clara, might not have known exactly what Zach was doing at any given moment, but someone responsible for him did. I would guess that he had more supervision, and fewer freedoms as far as things like curfew and spending, than he might have enjoyed simply living with his parents. It's not like he was given an apartment and allowed to run wild, like Will threatened. Further, did Zach make that decision? From what I recall, his parents made that call, in order to get him away from bad influences. I doubt Zach objected or minded, but I did not recall him having that much of an input. I'll have to delve through 9.11 to see, I suppose. Edit: I will count the tattoo as a point towards your position. THAT would be crossing a line. Also, found the appropriate section, from chapter 51 of 9.11 Assuming he isn't slanting the truth, and I don't see why he would have real reason to do so, I stand corrected.

Well, my main point was that Brad is demonstrating, even if only in the privacy of his own thoughts, a bias against Will, specifically, against his self-control. I found that to be interesting and worth discussing. I'm not sure that this is fair to Will, Zach, or the Hayes. *Something* was going to press this particular button, because as Matt outlines for Will's benefit it isn't really about this specific exhibition match, it's about whether or not Zach can make decisions regarding his post-high school future. While you're quite right that this would have not blown up had Will not expressed anything beyond a mild degree of honest disappointment in Zach's choices, it also wouldn't have happened if Wally and Clara were not trying to micromanage Zach. Because their reaction seemed extreme, especially Clara's. I could understand it if this was explicitly (or implicitly) about Will being Zach's boyfriend, or about Zach not doing something criminal, but disowning someone over this? I was under the impression, based on my own experience and that of my peer groups during that age, that most kids get to at least decide what they are going to do with their lives after school, and by that I mean both the hours between getting out of class and going to bed, as well as their post-scholastic careers. I thought that was especially true of older teenagers, like Zach. Is this not the case? I do have to say that if this is implicitly about Zach and Will shacking up, then I would have somewhat less respect for the Hayes than I do now. If they aren't willing to own up to what they want, and run the risk of permanently alienating Zach over their actual desire, why run that same risk over something they don't actually care about as strongly as they are feigning?

Sadly no. Through a quirk in how buildings were laid out, I have a view straight down an intersecting alleyway. However, I live only about 6 blocks from the shoreline, so I'm not complaining in the slightest.

Avoiding any and all aspects of nature, and luxuriating in my air conditioned apartment. I will occasionally take a walk along the beach, but that's as far from civilization as I plan to travel.

Number one, no. LA has plenty of park areas. They aren't always well maintained, or safe to visit, but there are places all over. Number two, Los Angeles doesn't have the same climate as Philadelphia. This shouldn't be surprising, but have you thought through the implications of that many sunny days in a year? Green grass isn't even a natural feature of the landscape; most of it is added and artificial. With the huge demand on water resources, Los Angeles has effectively become a desert. Also, mountains and beaches are *right there* and able to be utilized. Edit: I did a search of the LA times, and came up dry on the LA river project. So I'm not sure it's as guaranteed of a thing as you are assuming, if it hasn't even been voted on or placed in to the consciousness of local voters yet.

I hadn't read that passage in that manner, but now that someone has brought it up, I do think that anything Brad thinks is on the table for discussion, as long as we can actually see him think it. Edit: Looking at what he thinks, but does not act on, is also something to be kept in mind. And while not an unfounded accusation, it does show a certain amount of bias against Will's self-control. But it also shows a bias against thinking Wally and Clara would actually stand up to either their son or Will. Brad's initial assumption is that the Hayes are reacting against Will's action, because Will is a type A, and they are not. In fact, even in this instance, they aren't the primary instigators of the drama, although they are bringing most of the pressure. It's kind of sad that they are coming up against Will and Zach so hard. I like the idea of them as a family, and admired them when they were first introduced. While not poor, they weren't well off, but still found the generosity to take in kids that weren't theirs, and raised those kids to feel like they were full member of the family (another feat that isn't easy). I wonder what it is about Zach that has them so discombobulated.

If you are willing, would you please elaborate more on the quoted portion below? I think I understand the rest (and, as you said, I disagree with the majority), but I would like to check my understanding on this part. Because that sounds like you think Zach needs to reprioritize his life, put some parts of his burgeoning football career on hold, even blow some of his related obligations off, to better accommodate Will's feelings. If you aren't trying to say that, I am interested to know what you do mean by that sentence. If that is in fact what you mean, well, I don't know what to say. I don't see the character as written being willing to do that, no matter the cost to his own personal life, no matter how deeply he loves Will. Related, while I do buy that Barry is trying to break up Zach and Will, I'm not sure that it's because Will is a guy. I think if Will had been Willa, Barry would still be urging Zach to "think long term" and "avoid distractions." Not that I know for sure that this is the language he's using, but it's consistent with the expectations they set up for Zach, where "they" includes Zach himself.

There is also some culture clash at work, which Will laid out for Zach. In Will's family, extensive travel to many cultures is necessary for proper development. Zach would not see it that way, nor would any of the adults in his life besides Isiodore, and possibly Frank. The trip to Europe is presented to him, because he lacks the educational and cultural context, as a pleasure trip where he gets to spend time with some people he really admires, while the exhibition is being sold to him as critical to his career in both the long term and short term. Is it any wonder, presented like that, that he chose the more responsible path? He also did not see JP as dislocating his schedule for his (Zach's) benefit, he saw that as JP rearranging it for Will's benefit. I also see the relationship as working just fine based on the parameters they laid out. If Will dislikes it, and he seems to, it's his responsibility to object, which is exactly what he's doing. But just because he does that doesn't mean he'll get the outcome he wants, since Zach has to want it as well. And, as of now, Zach does not. And, no, I think the parallel between the two relationships still holds. Wade certainly loves Matt, and realizes he loves him a lot more than he thought he did at the beginning of Flux. But I don't see him making plans to move to Chicago just yet, nor have we seen him tell Matt, "Move in with me again, we'll figure out the details later." While Matt himself, the relationship he has with Matt, and even Matt's ultimate happiness are all quite important to Wade, he's not willing to compromise on certain things just yet, his long term career and scholastic goals chief among them.

Here's the thing, he has made room for both Will and football in his life. Will simply is not being treated as if he had the same priority level as football. Sometimes that's the choice someone makes. Songs may sell us that all we need is love, but some people need something a little firmer to stand on, and will deliberately place love on a secondary tier. There isn't anything wrong with that, however much it may suck for Will, or for Zach in the long term, especially since Zach was both up front and honest throughout. And, with all due respect Mark, it's not Zach that's threatening his relationship with Will, it's Will himself. Will knew the score when they started dating, or thought he knew, I suppose. I've been reading the last couple chapters as representative of someone that is refusing to get that they are second place in someone else's life, which is running parallel to similar drama that Matt and Wade are going through. It doesn't even have to mean Will feels more for Zach, Will is just able to place that relationship as a higher priority than Zach is, just like Matt would be willing to place the relationship with Wade on a higher priority than Wade would be willing to reciprocate.

No, I like the number of limbs I have, and do not need extra. So no kayaking for me. I continue to informally poll everyone I know (in as non-inflammatory a manner as possible). So far, no one has had a reaction other than, "What, really? Are they crazy?"

Barry is stupid, isn't he? Or narrow minded. He seems to not be aware that he's in the middle of a multi-story soap opera, and that enemy he's quietly nurturing is a protagonist. More seriously, he seems to not get how important Will thinks he is to this endeavor. Or if he does get it, doesn't agree (which, fair enough, I bet a lot of players he's mentored had girlfriends that wanted to control their boyfriends). If that's the case, why try to negotiate with Will at all? This continual dismissal of Will is odd, when placed next to meeting of the minds they all had a couple chapters ago. As it is, he's setting things up where Will is not going to feel bound to go along with anything Barry has to say. That may have interesting consequences, down the road, especially if Will has figured out "measured response" by that point.

Will wouldn't have a beard. He'd have a purse, whose function would be to look pretty and hold things for Will.

Almost all of that is coming from Zach's side of things, though. The original comment was why Will wasn't trying to be committed to Zach, not the other way around. Free of other considerations, I'm sure Zach and Will would become exclusive (as long as neither becomes a narrator); it would make sense for their characters. But may as well say "In a perfect world..." Perfect worlds make for boring characters.

Here's the thing: Zach can't commit to Will the same way. Not without compromising more than he is willing to give up at this time. I don't think Will is willing to commit to Zach if that commitment is not reciprocal; he's too rigid in his patterns of thought.

Again, you have no proof. (I actually like "I Should Know" a little better, though I do like the music video for "Days go By") Weird story, but I bought that album while on vacation in Palm Springs, the last family trip before I went off the college. I listened to it quite a bit on the trip, and for some reason my brain decided "Dirty Vegas" equaled "100+ temperatures," and for a good year I could make myself feel that warmth just by listening to the CD.

I don't want to minimize whatever mental health issues Rodgers may or may not have had, but I also don't want to forget that this was a hate crime. That what concerned his family enough to call the police on him was the vitriol he spewed online regarding women in general and the female students he attended classes with in particular. Hell, would mental illness be so pervasively blamed if he had shot up a Black, Hispanic, or queer interest dorm instead of a sorority? Or would police be now scouring the forums he frequented, looking up IPs to find like-minded confederates who might also prove to be a threat? I want to believe he was mentally unbalanced. It's easier to think about if I can point to a failure source and say, a couple pills in the right place and this would not have happened. But I know that, generally, that's not how hate crimes work. It starts with irrational hatred, blossoms with the encouragement like-minded peers, and ends with a violent solution being the only action left to take, because anything less would be cowardice and a betrayal of the mindset that created it. Maybe it is different for me, because I'm Mexican, and slight. I *know*, in my marrow and soul where rationality needs not appear, that microaggression can escalate to violence quickly. However rarely it happens, I've seen it happen, and killers aren't color-coded or sorted into Slytherin for convenience of paperwork. Again, I don't want to say that you're wrong. You may well be correct; I am certainly in no position to make a psychiatric diagnosis on this person. But if incidents like this don't start being talked about and treated as the hate crimes that they are, I am very much afraid that they will only escalate.

Yeah. A couple of my friends teach there (as TAs), or live nearby, but none go there still. I only wish I was more surprised, but hell. There's a reason that female students were told, almost first thing, "Do not walk alone at night, do not binge drink, trust no one." Because of jackasses like this that think women owe them something, and get enraged when they find out different. Binge drinking and hard partying is what UCSB student life is known for, but what hardly anyone talks about is the extremely high rate of sexual assault.

I am told no, but I'm not actually certain, as I tend to not drive at all when I'm traveling. I know we have nothing on French or Italian drivers, or Texans, does that help? I would guess that part of that has to do with how popular the clunkers-for-cash stimulus incentive proved in California. I'm sure a lot of people would like to be more aggressive, but it's hard to project that when you're driving a Honda Civic. It'd come off more like a enraged Chihuahua instead of actually threatening.

They are only scary the first time. After that, it's easy.