B1ue

Oh, I plan to not see the third movie at all. I have multiple problems with the way the storyline was handled in the third novel. Not so much the ending, that part worked really well and nearly saved it all for me, but the first arc revelations I felt were not handled well nor set up well by the previous entries in the series. In fact, that disconnect seemed to be both deliberate and the hinge upon which the novel swung, which I disliked on principle. The second arc and most of the third I found more boring than anything else, partly as the first arc revelations worked against my getting emotionally invested in it. Only until the last bit, when Tris once again found her footing, did I become re-engaged. Honestly, I felt the series would have been stronger to simply tie up the loose ends at the end of the second, and would be very much in favor of Insurgent being split into two volumes while Allegiant being simply not ever produced (although I could see elements of the endings being combined). Actually, my reaction upon finishing Allegiant was, "and this is why we wait until a trilogy is all the way written before committing to film versions. Sucks to be all of you."

Of course I saw the movie. A solid adaptation, though I wish it had sold more tickets. Ashley Judd and Kate Winslett stole the show, although Woodley and James gave solid performances. About the only complaint I had was that they may as well have gotten rid of the father completely (a reaction I had to the book series as well) for all the impact he had. Natalie could, provably, do everything he could do, only better.

I don't. Both because, at 22, I was working close to 60 hours a week trying to get on top of a job in an industry I'd never considered, and because thinking that "I had a lot of growing up to do at 22," implies I don't have just as much growing up to do at 30. I've made mistakes all over the place. I will continue to do so. While I'd rather I not make them, cringing at what I did in the past is pretty pointless. If anything in my past is going to make me cringe, it's not going to be moments related to not being grownup enough. I should probably stay quiet on this issue, except to agree with your logic. Hell, I never saw anything wrong with Matt sleeping with Tony, although I could see why some of the characters would. THIS brouhaha leaves me baffled.

Nah, that'd only convince him he was right. What I wanted was for Wade or Brad to calmly tell him, "I know you feel strongly about this. I can see why you do. But, frankly, it is none of your business what we do." Not that it was ever a likely response. Calmly disengaging Will, letting him know via tone and language that his opinion did not matter, would be a body blow to him. The implication that his loss of respect ultimately did not matter, coming from these two, would be worse. However much I want Will to just relax and let someone else attempt to be a moral compass for a while, I don't think it would have been an in-character move for any of them. Because to Wade and Brad, Will's opinion does matter. It matters because Will sees things in a black and white, right and wrong manner. He's not always logical, and he does things himself that he'd never tolerate out of anyone else, but he does correctly assess when other characters aren't acting in a manner they'd be proud to admit to later. Although I'm a little worried that he went straight from "You two suck" to "I'm going to climb all over Matt, and you two can't stop me." Not surprised, it is Will, but worried, mostly because I don't know that Matt can handle that when he has so much of his current guilt wrapped up with his taste for casual sex.

No, see, that all means she needs to appear wholesome. That's how people like her get you. I bet she'd be allowed to stay over at someone's house; she's a good girl, of course she'd not get up to anything. On that note: I can't remember if Taissa Farmiga has been suggested yet for Marie. But she popped into my head as I typed.

The prologue was pretty awesome, and interesting way to start the story. I look forward to seeing this all play out.

You're possibly asking the wrong person in me. My background is strongly matrilinear1, my initial reaction was something along the lines of "what rights does this bozo think he has?" before I remembered he actually did, technically. I can see why the family court in California awarded him custody though. A married couple with a clear parental tie, a stable financial situation, and round-the-clock caregiving available, would on paper be a better fit than a fulltime student, however temporary that situation actually is for Ms. McKenna. The only weird thing is the precedent set by the New York judge. I can't imagine why she'd do that, or why she phrased herself in such a manner.

Knee length shorts and a t-shirt. And a chair in the shade. Also, get me a margarita.

I think you're discounting the difference between union benefits and management benefits. In my industry, the union version of employee benefits are so much better than management equivalents that managers will often quit their management jobs and go back to their craft position for the last year of their employment to carry that version of their health plan into their retirement. That and they only have to work 10-15 days a month for full pay (up to 12 hours a day though, so it sometimes does work out to 40+ per week, especially when you have low seniority). Also, high seniority craft positions often make more than the entry level management positions they'd immediately qualify for. With as many kids as he has, Wally may not have been able to afford taking a management or office position, and as he rose in seniority and became able to pick his shifts and routes, he might not have wanted to. All that aside, I do essentially agree with you about Wally's strength of character. Just wanted to point out this particular character trait might not be because of it. I am curious what Zach's reaction is going to be when he meets Will's friends, and they all visibly put two and two together.

Sure. My problem is that I can't think of a good reason for him to have said something like that. As you said, there's many reason he could have said that about the ship, and I take issue with all the ones I've thought of so far. At best, it's a pretty ignorant thing to say. All the things you mention exist in the Sterek fandom. But it's hardly unique in that aspect, and it's not exactly difficult to find examples that meet none of those criteria, as they far, far outnumber those problematic stories you've mentioned.

Against my better judgment, why do you think this sends a terrible message to that particular group of people. Wasn't the point of her speech that she was one of those that felt forced into the closet, and that now she's at a point where she can be free to live openly? I didn't really get the message from her speech that people needed to come out, just that she felt she needed to, as well as needing to thank the people that she felt were making it possible for her to do so. I can understand you not being impressed by her words and action, but I am a bit confused about why you seem angered by them.

So. This happened to the Teen Wolf fandom, of which I am a member: http://beaconhills.co.vu/post/77098053505 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDHjnsNF_MQ (forward to 1:27 mark for the exact quote) I am a little conflicted on how I feel about this. And by that I mean I am not in the slightest bit conflicted, but am suppressing my natural response for some reason. Maybe I'm growing old. I am willing to give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he didn't mean to be hateful or homophobic, and was just being either an idiot or a jealous idiot, but that's about as charitable as I get. I definitely feel betrayed that he would be so insulting to his own fans. His portrayal of Scott was what got me to start watching the show. His growth as an actor and the personal growth of his character have been a treat to watch over the last couple of years, and I had been very impressed at how much more articulate and mature he's come off in recent interviews. Now I pretty much have lost interest in anything to do with his kid, and now view the shift from being an ensemble show to his character's personal story with deep distaste. But, enough about my feelings. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

Alright you two. Back to bed. You both clearly need more sleep. I personally wouldn't even notice if the figure skaters were fabricated entirely, or swapped about all over the place, but I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to see details being got right. I trust Mark to not let those details get in the way of the story he wants to tell. We all read the books for different reasons. I can't turn off my view of how the characters are being developed, which is why I tend to focus on those details. Jeremy has stated he was originally attracted to the chronicles by the level of historical detail Mark assimilates into the stories. I'm sure others pick up and respond to even more different aspects. There's no incorrect way to engage a text.

Since you've brought it up: http://alexcastle.net/2014/01/17/san-francisco-is-eating-itself/

In the defense of the series, the character's reactions make it clear that they feel more aligned with you on this subject than with me. It isn't the CAP family's moral standards that is causing me to shrug off Matt's actions, it's my own morality. And by my own moral standards, the betrayal just isn't that big of a deal, so I have a difficult time empathizing with Will's rage in this case. That all three of our current narrators do makes that discrepancy worse, but it doesn't impair my interest in reading.

That was kind of my reaction as well. I can certainly see Wade's side of things, but I also want to acknowledge Matt's. Or, at the very least, I want Wade to stop acting like a victim, and at least acknowledge that Matt is trying, even if it is too little, too late. Which seems to be what he's thinking but isn't saying directly to Matt. That said, I also want Matt to stop acting like a victim. If he honestly can't or won't change his behavior for Wade, I want him to admit to that and admit it is contributing to the breakup. I like the progress Will is making. I know I couldn't have brought myself out of a rage that quickly, so I will admire that effort on his part. I still think he's irrational in the cause of his rage, but meh. I'll just accept it as part of his character at this point.

Nah. Attacking people directly isn't something Will does, for the most part. He just doesn't think in those terms. Their cars would be toast, and he'd probably pee on all their clothing, but they themselves would be fine. And, Mark, people would call Will immature for doing that, I would call Will immature for doing that, because it would be an immature way to react. It doesn't matter his age, it doesn't matter the cause or circumstance, or how someone else might react in the same situation. Destruction of property over a break up is an immature way of handling things. And, if he did damage Zach's car, Wally and Clara would press charges against Will. They'd almost have to, because Will would have proven himself to be a danger to Zach and those around him. Tony might be convinced to let it go (although campus police might not), Zach's family and host family wouldn't be able to afford that luxury. So, actually, yeah. I kind of want to see this all happening. However, hopefully we won't. I'm hoping for a time skip of some kind, to the furthest out we can go considering Will and JJ's storylines.

I do see Matt as trying to still be the big man on campus. I just don't see anything particularly wrong with that, considering his age and station. For Wade, it'd be a terrible fit, but for Matt it makes sense. Further, not only are they going in different directions in their lives, but they are healing in different ways, and those ways happen to be exacerbating their current dilemma. For Wade, it looks like he's trying to manage his greatly increased responsibilities, and focus on those exclusively. I actually have a great deal of sympathy for that, and his frustration with someone who doesn't seem to be taking on any responsibilities at all. Not that this is a fair description, but I imagine that's what Matt looks like to Wade about now. And I do have respect for people that *deal* by throwing themselves into work and effort. It's something I try to emulate but all too often don't manage. Matt, on the other hand, is dealing by not dealing, by using sensory overload to wash himself out. And I have quite a bit of sympathy for that too, as long as he manages it. Which, relationship issues aside, he seems to be doing (he's still going to class and functioning, more or less). If he were a real person, I actually would wonder about the wisdom of him dropping all his activities all at once. Because the only other emotional channel I am aware of that's as effective as sex and sports is drug use. Well, writing, but that isn't for everyone. As it is, I'm only curious what direction this will go. Edit: Actually, I do see one thing different from my own interpretation and that of the majority. I don't see Matt as stuck in the past. I see him as stuck in the present. Wade has moved on, because he had to in order to cope. But Matt didn't need to move that fast, and I don't know if his character, as we see it presented, will pull it off in time, or if it will even matter. Because even if he does everything Wade and Frank have told him, he'll still be a college student errant, and Wade will still be a father and landed gentry.

RE Chapter 70, I may have literally said out loud "For fuck's sake, Frank, that's not helping," when he asked if Will had checked with Wally and Clara. I hope Wade doesn't crack under the pressure he's putting on himself, and that Matt figures out exactly why all these changes he doesn't seem to understand are being demanded of him. I think it will be only when he figures that out that he'll be able to part with Wade on anything resembling good terms. Because I do think that they'll break up. Not because Matt can't change, but because Wade can't. He can't seem to afford someone like Matt in his life, and even if Matt jumps through all the hoops, I'm worried there will just be something else down the road. That's not to say I disagree with Wade's choices. They make sense to his character. But I'm curious what kind of person Wade can be with at this moment in his life. I kind of think he needs someone like his mother, someone willing to turn a blind eye to his personal affairs while she helps him mange his public duties. I wonder where Gathan is at? Or if Maryellen has friends she trusts.

Meteora by Linkin Park The Better Life and Away From the Sun by 3 Doors Down Monument by the Dixie Chicks Fallen by Evanescense "Because the Night" various covers "Look at Us" Sarina Paris "In my Dreams" All six volumes of Happy 2B Hardcore I also went on a bit of a music binge that covered the previous two decades. 2002 was the year I graduated high school and moved off the mountain. So where I'd previously only been able to spottily pick up one country station, and that was it, I suddenly had access to Top 40 and "Best of the 80s, 90s and now" stations. I still pretty much listen to stations like that. I basically never took off my headphones if I wasn't in class or at work, and sometimes had them on at work.

I hate to break a perfectly good assumption, but I am actually not trying to condemn Will. I am trying to describe him. There is a clear disconnect between Mark's authorial intention and what I am reading on the page, so I wanted to discuss that. I still don't see it. Kitt is probably correct in that I am defining "family oriented" differently than y'all, but for me I need to see some sense of responsibility towards his family before I will place that trait on a character. And perhaps because he's only 14, perhaps because he's too traumatized still, perhaps because Mark has simply not highlighted the moments where Will would prove that responsibility, but for whatever reason, I don't see that happening. His responsibility in life, as he seems to see it, is to get good grades. He recently acquired a new role as Maddy's protector, but not caretaker, and out of all his family ties, that's probably the only one I see him refusing to let break. Every other relationship, I think he could walk away from, although JP would probably be the next hardest. As an aside, I specifically didn't name Zach in my scenario, because Mark's quite right, he'd never go with Will if he took off. At this point, I don't think he feel comfortable with the two of them going to the same school, let alone starting a life together. Naturally, this means that the most interesting scenario is probably that they wind up at the same college, just to see what happens, but I won't insist on that needing to happen. And, as a matter of fact, I have been raped. Abused. Attacked. I have attacked others, and learned exactly how little I'm not capable of in a rage. And I didn't get the benefit of therapy either. And sweet fuck all of that has to do with Will's character development.

Time for thread cross-posting! Mark Arbour, on 27 Jan 2014 - 8:57 PM, said: Oh, I don't know. Perhaps I think Will is the most likely to say fuck it all and take off because it has already happened at least once? So basically, I proposed that Will would, if his characterization continues along the path he's taking, take off with his lover of the moment and cut all ties behind him. Mark and Jeremy disagreed, saying that Will is too focused on his family. I really don't think this is the case. I honestly am not sure that's ever been true for Will. I don't require that all characters be as family focused as, say, Wade, but Wade walks the walk. He's clearly focused on his family and his responsibilities within it, and that includes getting along with members he'd probably rather never see again. His mother is basically evil, but he'll still invite her to Thanksgiving. Will wouldn't have done that; Will would have tried to kill her by now. He certainly would have arranged to have her arrested, and that's okay for his character. I believe him as a character that is willing to put individualism as his highest ideal, and that sees the entire world as ready to act against him at a moments notice. At this point, in his eyes, just about everyone has failed him. It makes sense for that kind of character to react to everyone as a possible threat, even those that are the most intimate and most trusted. I think that's why I am okay with him falling for Zach so hard, Zach might be an emotional threat, but no more so than letting Brad into his inner circle. But I don't believe him as being family oriented. He doesn't seem to need his family like Wade, JP, or Gathan does. He likes them, most of them anyways, but he could live without them. Something he's proven a couple of times when he ran away, and then sued for emancipation.

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps I think Will is the most likely to say fuck it all and take off because it has already happened at least once? Edit: In order to keep it from going off-topic, I posted a more thorough answer to the 9-11/Will bashing thread.

To more fully explicate it, it's about a couple of kids that have nothing to lose, and the singer willing to throw her entire life away on the chance of something else. Right now, Will has too much he sticks around for. But I think that will change. He's burning through all his bridges with his rage and his depression, and if he doesn't pull out of it, he's going to just latch onto someone and book it.

I'm pretty sure this song has already been used at some point, but I think Will is rapidly heading towards this song: "Fast Car" Tracy Chapman