Gas Prices

[Menzoberranzen]

I don't see why GM shouldn't produce vehicles that will increase its profits. If there is a market out there for big-ass SUVs, then it makes sense for them to exploit it. Of course if it turns out that there isn't a market, and Americans do want 'tiny little vehicles' then they will presumably adjust accordingly. There are people and families who simply can't survive with just one sedan, and somebody has to produce the cars they buy.

 

Menzo

[rknapp]

Damnit, I have a Calc 3 quiz to study for.

 

GM just doesn't get it. I hope Mr. LaNeve has other career options when the GM goes under because of its antiquated thinking.

I fail to see how GM would go under by that quote. Sure, the Caddy's fuel economy is piss poor when you compare it to a Civic, but that Caddy is hardly the rule for the General. The Caddy's sister vehicles are the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon. The Tahoe hybrid will be getting an MPG up the 20's. As for his thinking that Americans can't give up their big SUV's, he's right on the mark. Look around you the next time you're on the highway and I bet you'll see a lot of big SUVS (Expedition, Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, Navigator, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, Rover, Armada, QX series, etc.). Twenty years ago all of those models would have been designed to be use off-road in remote locales and on-road to haul things that most cars can't. Today most of them are still designed for that purpose, BUT Americans STILL use them primarily on-road, which explains why they ALL are now available with navigation systems, heated leather seating surfaces, moon-roofs, etc. Americans want them because bigger is better, and what's bigger than SUV's (besides semi's)?

 

Further, that statement is the exception to GM's current global strategy. Abroad, GM sells efficient vehicles that appeal to the local market. In the US, GM sells vehicles to different classes of people. Pontiac sells exciting models (Torrent, G5, G6, upcoming G8, outgoing Grand Prix, Vibe, Solstice, upcoming GTO/Firebird revival), Buick sells luxury vehicles (Lucerne, Enclave), Cadillac sells a combination of luxury and sporty cars and trucks (Escalade, CTS, STS, hence the recent CTS commercials saying, "When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?"), and Chevrolet sells a cross of efficiency and performance (Corvette, upcoming Camaro revival, Cobalt, Aveo, Malibu, Impala, outgoing Monte Carlo) and co-sells workhorses with hybrid trims levels with GMC (Sierra/Silverado, Canyon/Colorado, Yukon/Tahoe, Yukon XL/Suburban). GM has just as many, if not more, fuel efficient vehicles as Toyota, Nissan, and Honda.

 

Additionally, I applaud GM for getting as far as it has with its efficiency efforts. GM has introduced efficient hybrid-electric systems, fully-electric systems, and the hydrogen fuel cell in recent years. What has Toyota done? Toyota has designed a hybrid-synergy drive system that costs you more in the end without saving you a whole lot of fuel. Their synergy drive in no way shape or form gets the MPG that Toyota touted a few years ago. In fact, a 1.8L Honda Civic gets comparable, if not better MPG's than the Prius. GM has also introduced many more vehicles that can run entirely in E85, hence the "Silverado vegetarian" commercials. Why do I applaud them? Up until 2000, the General was receiving government funding to research and develop the hydrogen fuel cell in light of rising gas prices. What happened in 2000 to cut that off? George W. Bush was sworn into office and he and his lackeys at Halifax cut that funding off. After all, what oil tycoon wants his country running on something that he doesn't have a vested financial interest in producing/selling? That is one LARGE reason for why Toyota, Honda, and BMW are currently ahead of GM in that field... the countries they are based in have a vested interest in better fuel efficiency! So it's remarkable that GM has, despite consecutive annual losses, produced Chevy Equinox's with hydrogen fuel cells and is currently field testing them in major metropolitan cities.

 

I can go on and on about how the General is following the market, but I have to finish this post and study.

 

Oil is gonna run out in two hundred years anyway lol. Plus, the high prices are all cus the gas companies are just compensating for the prices of crude oil, which is bs none the less, i think they could spare to lose an extra billion a year. I mean its not the only billion they have.

 

 

 

but its like 3.19 here in michigan

Fixed it for ya. I hate it when people complain that oil is gonna run out -- they sound like it's gonna happen soon. In reality, the reserves in the middle east are still quite large, as are the Mexican, Cambodian, and Canadian reserves. Currently there are reserves in Alaska that remain largely untapped because tree-huggers and other such environmentalist whackjobs think drilling for oil will disturb the natural habitat ever since the Exxon-Valdez accident. The main thing that could cause a catastrophe with the pipeline is an earthquake. When engineered correctly, anything can withstand a 'quake. Saying the oil supply will run out soon is horseshit. There are three countries in the world right now that will be the deciding factors in the global oil supply: America, India, and China. The latter two are the worlds most populated countries and are rapidly stepping up their own dependence on oil, but the oil supply still has plenty of life in it.

 

High prices are due to a lot of things. First there is the price of crude, which is dictated largely by the region from whence it came. If it came from the middle east, then you can rest assured that it will carry a hefty price tag due to the violence that has plagued that region of the world for thousands of years. Another reason for high prices is that the government needs something to fund it's agenda, so taxes and excise bring it up. Then there is the profit. Every company needs a profit to survive. Sure, some companies have far too much profit (hence why Exxon-Mobil will never see a penny from me -- in fact, (God forbid) if my parents died suddenly, I would get over $[censored ] in shares of Exxon... so Exxon would buy me my SRT-10 Viper and it would NEVER see a drop of gas from any of their filling stations and would NEVER see a drop of their oil or lubricant products, EVER).

 

Another facet to the price of fuel is that people who boy-cott gas purchases for x-amount of time aren't hurting the oil companies at all. The oil companies produce the oil and refine the gasoline, but they don't sell it. Individual filling station owners purchase the gasoline from the company and sell it. Some stations purchase fuel from one company only and have a contract with that company, so the company's name goes on the station, but it's the station OWNER who sells the fuel. Boycotts only hurt those pour souls who get sucked up in the vacuum of those economy windbags who think they're doing a good thing.

 

Well given that oil supplies will eventually run out. It would seem we'll need to find an alternative however costly.

Unfortunately we're still at the stage where, in order to produce the alternative fuel, we need fossil fuels to produce the energy required for the manufacturing process. Example: A zoo in Nebraska uses a hydrogen fuel cell to power much of its environmental systems. Where does that hydrogen come from? Natural gas is pumped into the cell and the cell derives the hydrogen from that fossil fuel to make its own fuel. Another way to get hydrogen to is derive it from water (H2O). This is done through a process called electrolysis, which requires fossil fuels to be run. Hence why renewable fuels, such as E85, bio-diesel, hydro-power, and wind energy are so popular. Bio-fuels are derived from corn oils and regular grease from restaurants. Hydro-power uses the natural currents in rivers and bays to turn large turbines, which convert the energy from the currents into mechanical energy. Wind-power works in much the same way as hydro-power, using wind currents to turn massive propellers attached to turbines to create mechanical energy.

 

......Actually, a few years ago, I lived well outside the city limits, on a 5-acre parcel with no power and a well. We used a 20 KW generator that thru an invertor charged a bank of batteries that provided 12-14 hours of power to our modest home (double-wide trailer). I proudly added a wind generator, hoping it would be enough maintain the battery charge while we slept at night. DON'T ever get the small wind generator!!

In the middle of the night, if the wind blew over 15 miles an hour the noise was horrendus, it was so loud that it sounded like a propeller plane was landing outside my door :wacko: and this thing was located over a hundred yards from the house. It was no fun, being awaken at 2:30 am, trudging thru rain, sleet or snow (Yes, I lived up the mountain) to turn off this wonderful device. Why it didn't have it's own kill-switch is beyond me, I think I paid a thousand for it back then

Current wind-energy technology has not only made wind farms more efficient, it has also made them quieter. The noise factor is still there, but not nearly as severe as the technology from a few years ago.

 

Someone earlier asked how you do it, well look at the top selling cars in Canada... Civic, Corolla, Focus & Cobalt and I bet I see 2-3 SMART cars a day now on the way to work and they've only been available for 2 years.

I find it hilarious when people tell me that smaller cars, and therefore smaller engines, are the answer to better fuel efficiency. That is purely myth.

 

Example: On a good day, my 175 hp 3.1L six cylinder engine, driving a 4-speed automatic and (with me and my audio system) 4000 pound sedan, gets over 30 MPG. My car is the SE (base model), but if I had the highest model, the GTP, I could still get that MPG. The GTP is equipped with a 240-hp 3.8L supercharged V-6 with the heavy duty version of my transmission.

My dad used to have a 2001 Corvette convertible (heaviest Corvette in the line-up) and he typically got 30 MPG on the highway with it's 350-hp V-8 and 4-speed transmission.

 

Better MPG's can also be had with better driving behaviors. My car currently gets 23-24 MPG because I have a lead foot. Engines create more power as they go up in the RPM-range, hence why 5 and 6-speed transmissions are more efficient than 4-speeds, because they can have better gearing that allows the car to run at a lower RPM for a given speed. Taking your foot off the gas once in a while helps too.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, gas was $2.89 at my regular station a week ago. $2.97 was the worst I saw for 87 octane (regular grade) gasoline.

[Graeme]

I don't see why GM shouldn't produce vehicles that will increase its profits. If there is a market out there for big-ass SUVs, then it makes sense for them to exploit it. Of course if it turns out that there isn't a market, and Americans do want 'tiny little vehicles' then they will presumably adjust accordingly. There are people and families who simply can't survive with just one sedan, and somebody has to produce the cars they buy.

While not everyone needs the big vehicles, they have their uses.

 

eg. We own two vehicles. One is a tiny vehicle that I drive. I use it because I do a lot of city travel and the smaller size is easier to park and use in peak hour travel. It's not as safe as a more robust car, but I'm budgeting on not being in a major accident. The second vehicle is a large, heavy four-wheel drive. We have that because the legislation states that the towing vehicle has to be heavier than what is being towed. Since my wife uses a horse float to transport her horse to shows (at least prior to Equine Influenza shutting everything down), she needed a large vehicle.

 

I get great fuel economy from my car -- between 6 and 7 litres per 100km -- but I will be looking for a larger vehicle sometime soon. The only real reason is that because I'm reasonably tall, I have the driver's seat all the way back, and there is no longer enough leg room for the boys when they sit behind me. We need a replacement vehicle that they can be comfortable in.

[BeaStKid]

:wacko: ........so you mean in US dollars the cost of a gallon of gas in your country is $4.85

 

In actual terms, yes. But if you equate the purchasing powers of both the currencies, it amounts to $16 per U.S gallon.(In my last post I said that its equal to $25. My fault. Sorry.)

 

BeaStKid

[Adrian Michaels]

Last Weekend: $2.98 a gallon.

 

This Weekend: $3.20 a gallon.

 

ENOUGH SAID

 

:(

[Benji]

Talk to rknapp. He's keen to work on alternative energy sources, and he's got a vested interested in making sure they'll be cheap to run (given his mania for cars)

 

 

................Damn, didn't need to talk to rknapp, for a kid who was getting ready to take a Calc quiz. He had a lot to say on the energy business. Kudos to him I also love muscle cars!!

[Tarin]

Hmm, I just bought gas at $3.15/gal. Thats down from recently.

 

And I have one of those big SUVs you all hate so much. 1996 Isuzu Rodeo, its bascially a Chevy Blazer. I usually get near 13mpg with my V6.

I'm in college, so I can't buy my dream car (SAAB 9-5 *swoon*). I want a smaller car, not just because of fuel efficiency...but I can't afford to buy another car.

 

I'm from a GM town, so even though I don't like American cars, I'm partial to GM. I think that GM is caught between a rock and a hard place. Enviromental activists and people that think bigger is better. But then again I don't pretend to educate myself on the new fuel technologies. I understand the need to remove our dependency on fossil fuels, but my solution is a bit extreme. I say destroy technology and go bact to Renaissance level technology! Horses produce only a small amount of methane.

[BeaStKid]

Hmm, I just bought gas at $3.15/gal. Thats down from recently.

 

And I have one of those big SUVs you all hate so much. 1996 Isuzu Rodeo, its bascially a Chevy Blazer. I usually get near 13mpg with my V6.

I'm in college, so I can't buy my dream car (SAAB 9-5 *swoon*). I want a smaller car, not just because of fuel efficiency...but I can't afford to buy another car.

 

I'm from a GM town, so even though I don't like American cars, I'm partial to GM. I think that GM is caught between a rock and a hard place. Enviromental activists and people that think bigger is better. But then again I don't pretend to educate myself on the new fuel technologies. I understand the need to remove our dependency on fossil fuels, but my solution is a bit extreme. I say destroy technology and go bact to Renaissance level technology! Horses produce only a small amount of methane.

Be glad that Meneka Gandhi doesn't visit GA! Lol

[rknapp]

................Damn, didn't need to talk to rknapp, for a kid who was getting ready to take a Calc quiz. He had a lot to say on the energy business. Kudos to him I also love muscle cars!!

The quiz went rather well, I finished before everyone else and said to myself, "I must have done something wrong." So I went back over my answers and realized I didn't really answer the second problem correctly, so I added what I needed and was the third one to finish and leave lol.

 

Yeah when someone mentions energy, I go hog wild and sometimes I get passionate... so I apologize if that was long winded haha.

 

I agree, muscle cars are friggin awesome! Although because they typically get 3-6 MPG, mine would relegated to a weekend cruiser (if I get one, I want the new Camaro soooo bad).

 

Hmm, I just bought gas at $3.15/gal. Thats down from recently.

 

And I have one of those big SUVs you all hate so much. 1996 Isuzu Rodeo, its bascially a Chevy Blazer. I usually get near 13mpg with my V6.

I'm in college, so I can't buy my dream car (SAAB 9-5 *swoon*). I want a smaller car, not just because of fuel efficiency...but I can't afford to buy another car.

 

I'm from a GM town, so even though I don't like American cars, I'm partial to GM. I think that GM is caught between a rock and a hard place. Enviromental activists and people that think bigger is better. But then again I don't pretend to educate myself on the new fuel technologies. I understand the need to remove our dependency on fossil fuels, but my solution is a bit extreme. I say destroy technology and go bact to Renaissance level technology! Horses produce only a small amount of methane.

I'm a fan of the General just because we've always had GM cars. In fact, my first car (Dodge Intrepid) was the first we had in probably 20 years that wasn't made by GM. As far back as I can remember we've had a 1968 Corvette Stingray convertible, a 1986 Pontiac 6000 STE, a 198x GMC Vandura conversion van, 1997 Buick Regal LS, 1998 Chevy Tahoe LT (still have it), 2001 Corvette convertible, 2003 Chevy Impala (currently sisters car), and a 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix SE (mine right now). My dads current car is our second foray outside of GM, his Datsun (Infiniti). What a POS that car is... it's two years newer than mine and has seen more garage time than mine, which just rolled 100,000 trouble free miles! I think when it's time to turn the Datsun in off of its lease, he's gonna come crawling back to GM. Hell, we always rent GM cars when we travel!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing I want to mention, GM is not the only domestic automaker in trouble. The other two facets of the big three (Ford and Chrysler) are in a heap as well. All three are trying to return to profitability. Right now GM is trying to convert many models over to rear-drive because the American public wants rear-drive again. The problem is that the government has been trying to create stringent new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards that force all domestic automakers (Ford, GM, Infiniti, Acura, etc.) to have corporate average of something like 25+ MPG by 2020. Rear-drive technology essentially adds more rotating mass to the drive train (driveshaft going from the transmission to the rear axle, as opposed to output shafts going from the transaxle to the front wheels) while forces the motor to work harder and use more fuel. One way around that is to have several models who give the cold shoulder to gasoline (hence the Chevrolet Volt concept that will VERY likely go into production, google it). This also explains why they are adding hybrids to their truck and SUV lines, which more or less brings up the economy of their most successful market and also their least efficient market. I hope these plans will help them return to profitability, because some of their cars I want really bad (G6 GXP Street Edition, G8 base/GT, 09 Camaro, CTS, etc.).

[Drewbie]

Last Weekend: $2.98 a gallon.

 

This Weekend: $3.20 a gallon.

 

ENOUGH SAID

 

:(

 

crap it used beo like 2.80 or so weeks ago now it's 3.09. some places around here it's 2.99

[rknapp]

My favorite station just dropped from $2.899 to $2.859.

[AFriendlyFace]

My favorite station just dropped from $2.899 to $2.859.

Just think, if you tank up now you'll save about 60 cents!

[ashessnow]

$3.35 a gallon.

 

Cost about $60 to fill up the tank. Fun!

Edited November 18, 2007 by Nerotorb

[Jack Frost]

I guess you Americans have it good now.

 

In Montreal, it's $1.10CND per litre, which about $4.30USD per gallon.

 

But I don't have a car here in Canada...so I'm not worried and I don't keep an eye on the prices. I had to look it up. lol

[BeaStKid]

I don't drive my own car, yet... So I can proudly say that I need not worry till around 2 more years!!

 

P.S

But by then, there would be too much to worry!!! *Yikes*

[AFriendlyFace]

I don't drive my own car, yet... So I can proudly say that I need not worry till around 2 more years!!

 

 

Well perhaps if you start saving up now you'll be able to afford a tank of gas then

[BeaStKid]

Well perhaps if you start saving up now you'll be able to afford a tank of gas then

 

i'm doing that... not for the gas tank, though

[rknapp]

And here I am, saving up for a 361-hp 6.0L V8 equipped 3,995 lb. Australian sedan in American clothing... although every penny saved goes straight to my present car for either maintenance (just rolled 100,000 miles! ) or modifications

[BeaStKid]

And here I am, saving up for a 361-hp 6.0L V8 equipped 3,995 lb. Australian sedan in American clothing... although every penny saved goes straight to my present car for either maintenance (just rolled 100,000 miles! ) or modifications

 

If I have to buy something in another 5 years, it'd be a bike and not a car.

[Menzoberranzen]

Yeah, it always amuses me to hear Americans complain about gas. It's cheaper than just about anywhere else in the developed Western world. Try buying gas in the EU or UK and see how you like it. Even Canadians don't have it too bad.

[Drewbie]

I guess you Americans have it good now.

 

In Montreal, it's $1.10CND per litre, which about $4.30USD per gallon.

 

But I don't have a car here in Canada...so I'm not worried and I don't keep an eye on the prices. I had to look it up. lol

 

You are an American Jack ( just living away)

 

and yes menzo In scheme of things we shouldn't be compaling... to much compared to much of the world, just not used to it, and it's not as bad right now as it was a 1 or two years ago during the summer, I just hate it that they raise it during the holidays. do they raise it up in other places when it's near the holidays or special events?

 

 

I was doing a project each were doing their own type I decided to do one about gas prices and remeber seeing that amsterdam was paying 7 bucks per liter.

Edited November 18, 2007 by Drewbie

[Jack Frost]

I just got my Canadian citizenship a month ago.

 

Ok I was kidding yes...but just few years away...lol

 

$7 per gallon...gallon. If you do it $7 per litre, that's $26 per gallon. The Dutchies don't pay THAT much.

[Drewbie]

I just got my Canadian citizenship a month ago.

 

Ok I was kidding yes...but just few years away...lol

 

$7 per gallon...gallon. If you do it $7 per litre, that's $26 per gallon. The Dutchies don't pay THAT much.

 

 

Cool Jack. it was converted to our currency that's why.

[Jack Frost]

Cool Jack. it was converted to our currency that's why.

And converted to imperial because we Americans are retarded when it comes to metric.

 

I even can't use it...but I thank god they use some imperial here, hence making my life much easier not converting everything into pounds, inches, and gallons all the time.

[ashessnow]

Yeah, it always amuses me to hear Americans complain about gas. It's cheaper than just about anywhere else in the developed Western world. Try buying gas in the EU or UK and see how you like it. Even Canadians don't have it too bad.

While it's always been true that prices are higher in the UK, Europeans drive cars that are 50% more fuel-efficient than Americans do. The average American and European spend about the same for their automotive needs, but the Americans drive more miles in less fuel-efficient cars.