Lord Richard by Sinbad

[Luc]

First I have to say that I love period stories. I won't even mention the number of historical novels I own--they could fill a small library. I always loved reading them and used to toy with writing them when I was a lot younger. So when I happened to glance at the e-fiction and saw "1728" my eyes lit up and my fingers just couldn't resist clicking the link, despite the fact thata it was 4 am.

 

So...you have strayed into the land of my fantasies. The aristocrat and the stableboy is always a fun theme. Been done before and will be done again, but there are always variations on the theme and it is a nice fantasy to read and write. I enjoyed reading what you have written so far.

 

I want to offer some constructive suggestions (and I hope you will do the same for me if you read any of my stories--turnabout is fair play ) since really, you are writing something that I can really get into.

 

You set your story in 1728, so you want the reader to feel that period as they read. So the choice of words and of language is important. Some of the things you had your characters saying felt out of sync with the time period. But really, this may be something that only someone who has been obsessed (yes, that would be me, sadly enough) with that time period would even think about. Probably most people who read a period story aren't going to notice that. And really, a lot of 'period' movies have been done with very modern dialogue and no one but me ever seems to blink an eye at it. (My son is SO tired of hereing me complain that "They woudln't have said that back then!" when we go to movies. He swears he will NEVER go with me to see a Pirates of the Caribbean movie again.)

 

I think, also, that characters in period works should not step too far out of how it is expected they behave (based on what we know of that time period from all the sources we have at our disposal: historical accounts from that period, well-written novels about that period and even well-done movies about that period--might as well take advantage of the research already done for us). And anytime you need your character to behave in an anachronistic way, I think it is important to give them a reason that is, in some way, pointed out (so the anal retentive reader doesn

[Sinbad]

I enjoyed reading what you have written so far.

Thanks!

I want to offer some constructive suggestions (and I hope you will do the same for me if you read any of my stories--turnabout is fair play ) since really, you are writing something that I can really get into.

I'm absolutely delighted to get some constructive criticism which is what I crave more than anything!

You set your story in 1728, so you want the reader to feel that period as they read. So the choice of words and of language is important. Some of the things you had your characters saying felt out of sync with the time period.

Yes, I worried about that; I know I didn't research the period much, relying on distant memories of reading some Georgette Heyer stuff years ago. Sorry, that's shoddy, isn't it?

 

I did make a decision not to be too concerned with period language - I didn't want my characters to spend their time calling "Gadzooks!" and such. So I thought modern speech pattern but without 21st century idiom as far as possible would do. Perhaps I was wrong - period language would help anchor the reader in the period?

It’s obvious you have done research on the time. The Beggar’s Opera opened in 1728 and was a very big thing at the time. Beau Brummell was a bit out of time, though. He was born in 1778.

Whoops!

 

Thanks, Luc, I REALLY appreciate that you took time to give me some considered pointers. I will try to implement them. I'll probably even edit the chapters already up.

 

Hugs

 

Sinbad

 

Lord Richard

[Sinbad]

I've now made a few small initial edits to the first two chapters and the BIG NEWS is that I've posted chapter 3, which concludes the first major storyline, establishing Richard and John as a couple. The next chapters will show them becoming a sort of Batman and Robin, with Jasper back at base as support.

 

Please read it and let me know what you think!

[Luc]

I've now made a few small initial edits to the first two chapters and the BIG NEWS is that I've posted chapter 3, which concludes the first major storyline, establishing Richard and John as a couple. The next chapters will show them becoming a sort of Batman and Robin, with Jasper back at base as support.

 

Please read it and let me know what you think!

 

*gets excited and jumps up and down* Cool! I will read your new chapter tomorrow when I am actually conscious (haven't slept yet)

 

Yes, I worried about that; I know I didn't research the period much, relying on distant memories of reading some Georgette Heyer stuff years ago. Sorry, that's shoddy, isn't it?

Not shoddy at all. My personal opinion is that Georgette Heyer is the best. I've read just about all her books. She's my all time favorite author.

 

I did make a decision not to be too concerned with period language - I didn't want my characters to spend their time calling "Gadzooks!" and such. So I thought modern speech pattern but without 21st century idiom as far as possible would do. Perhaps I was wrong - period language would help anchor the reader in the period?

 

I don't know. I would love to know what others think about this. I think that you are right not to "gadzooks" the reader to death. Too much immersion in the period speech would probably drive most readers crazy. Definitely leave out any modern idioms. But I think we tend to speak more casually then they did back then. Perhaps keeping that 'modern speech pattern' but making it more formal might do it--especially when writing an upper class character. And throw in some older sounding phrasing--you don't have to get it dead on for the date, but general 18th century things. Or, since you are setting your story early in that century, you could even throw in some 17th century things. As good excuse as any to re-read some Georgette Heyer novels, or read some you haven't yet read.

 

There really should be an online resource for period language, somewhere you could go to pick up a few common words or phrases. I'll have to look for one at some point because...well, because I am obsessive (I typed up one once--during my 'historical novel' phase--but it is more for the Regency period. Yes, did I mention I am obsessive?)

[Ephialtes]

I'm liking this story very much. I love the interaction between Richard, John, and Jasper.

 

I agree with Luc about the speech patterns though, one of the things that bothered me the most was one character saying something about being 'dead wrong', or 'dead right', can't remember which, but that made me go 'Eh?'. I still love the story though, and am looking forward to the next chapters

 

Keep up the good work!

[Sinbad]

throw in some older sounding phrasing--you don't have to get it dead on for the date, but general 18th century things. Or, since you are setting your story early in that century, you could even throw in some 17th century things. As good excuse as any to re-read some Georgette Heyer novels, or read some you haven't yet read.

 

Starting my homework this evening - Georgette Heyer's 'Lady of Quality' because it's to hand.

 

Further editing in progress to get the language more C18-ish!

 

Sinbad

[Sinbad]

My personal opinion is that Georgette Heyer is the best. I've read just about all her books. She's my all time favorite author.

I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that I consider Ms Heyer's work shoddy, merely that it was shoddy of me not to do proper research before embarking on my little effort, relying on my imperfect memory of some of her stuff. Like Luc, I think Georgette Heyer is Queen of her genre, and by quite a margin. A great author, by any standard.

[Luc]

I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that I consider Ms Heyer's work shoddy, merely that it was shoddy of me not to do proper research before embarking on my little effort, relying on my imperfect memory of some of her stuff. Like Luc, I think Georgette Heyer is Queen of her genre, and by quite a margin. A great author, by any standard.

 

Never thought you meant that. Lady of Quality is a good one. First one I ever read was Devil's Cub. Stupidly enough, I bought it because it had "devil" in the title and I was into that sort of thing back then. Got me completely hooked on the genre though.

[Camy]

Hey Sinbad,

I'm really loving this.

Only one weency comment - it's Cadogan Square, not Caduggan.

 

Camy

[Sinbad]

Only one weency comment - it's Cadogan Square, not Caduggan.

Hi Camy, actually Caduggan Square is supposed to be a fictitious location - it sounded like it could exist - clearly my subconscious was telling me something - it does exist! And I'll have to change the name or decide to make it real and correct the spelling. I wonder which would be best? I'm not sure whereabouts Cadogan Square is - is it Belgravia? That would be suitably posh for an Earl.

 

Sinbad

[Sinbad]

One thing to note, though ... if I recall correctly, the early Heyer novels ("Devil's Cub", "These Old Shades") took place in the late 1700s, post-French Revolution. The remainder of her writing is mostly set in the Regency period, being 1810-1820.

Thanks Kitty I'll bear that in mind.

 

I don't think I want to fill my story with 'slang of the day' and specific references (although I've already come a cropper mentioning Beau Brummell) but I do want to know what to call the carriages that will continue to feature in the story, for instance. Anyone know what a Gig is, what a Landau is, a Chaise? So far I've called the transport they go to the theatre in a carriage which seems fairly safe. But I'm discovering that if you do period, you've got to do it right (or suffer the wrath of Kitty, Luc etc!!!)

 

Thanks Kitty et al for your interest and good advice which I will try to follow.

 

Sinbad

[Camy]

Hi Camy, actually Caduggan Square is supposed to be a fictitious location - it sounded like it could exist - clearly my subconscious was telling me something - it does exist! And I'll have to change the name or decide to make it real and correct the spelling. I wonder which would be best? I'm not sure whereabouts Cadogan Square is - is it Belgravia? That would be suitably posh for an Earl.

 

Sinbad

Yes, Cadogan Square is in Belgravia!

 

It didn't even cross my mind you had made the name up. It's a real place in a very up-market part of London, just north of the Kings Road, near Sloane Square, Knightsbridge, Mayfair. Definitely right for a Earl.

 

Camy

[Sinbad]

Yes, Cadogan Square is in Belgravia!

Thanks Camy, I've edited the story appropriately!

Sinbad

[Sinbad]

Beau Brummell was a bit out of time, though. He was born in 1778.

-- so I've referred to Beau Brummell who's from the end of the 18th century. I've also referred to Hepplewhite furniture which is from the end of the 18th century. If I read Georgette Heyer to get some authentic period detail into my story, that will be relevant to the end of the 18th century. So it might be best to move my story to the end of the 18th century!! That would only leave me with one problem - to edit the scene about the trip to the theatre to see The Beggar's Opera because that only ran for 62 performances, in 1728 - I'll have to find a play that was all the rage at the end of the century for them to go to instead. Any ideas?

 

Sinbad

[Luc]

She Stoops to Conquer is a late 18th century play that was popular.

 

Kitty is right (would I expect anything else? ) about the time frame for most of Georgette Heyer's novels. The earlierst 18th century ones are The Masqueraders and The Black Moth, which are about around 1750.

 

It would feel much more comfortable writing in the late 18th century, mostly because I have read SO many novels set in that period. Though I could play a little in the mid to late 17th century, thanks to Jean Plaidy and Constance Gluyas.

 

This is a decent site with information on 18th century carriages

[Red_A]

Thanks Kitty I'll bear that in mind.

 

I don't think I want to fill my story with 'slang of the day' and specific references (although I've already come a cropper mentioning Beau Brummell) but I do want to know what to call the carriages that will continue to feature in the story, for instance. Anyone know what a Gig is, what a Landau is, a Chaise? So far I've called the transport they go to the theatre in a carriage which seems fairly safe. But I'm discovering that if you do period, you've got to do it right (or suffer the wrath of Kitty, Luc etc!!!)

 

Thanks Kitty et al for your interest and good advice which I will try to follow.

 

Sinbad

First this is a good place to visit in the UK, if you want to known more about carriages.

http://www.luton.gov.uk/internet/leisure_a...ge%20Collection

 

A Gig was/is a single axle, single horse, two people, open, facing front, carriage.

 

A Landau was a two axle, two or four horse, four people, open with two hoods, one coachman or postilions, carriage. The hoods are like Pram hoods (baby carriage), and can be used to create a closed carriage. Early landaus probably had one or two postilions. See royal ascot ona wet day.

 

A chaise was an one axle, one horse, two people, open with one hood, carriage.

 

A post chaise was a two axle, four horse, closed, with one or two postilions, carriage. Except for a phaeton the fastest carriage.

 

The problem is that high fashion invented different variations, so that there were 6 varieties of gigs during the 18th century. So depending on time and wealth depended on what you called your coach(closed with coachman and 2 plus horses) or open light carriage.

 

 

Good luck

RED

[Sinbad]

She Stoops to Conquer is a late 18th century play that was popular.

 

This is a decent site with information on 18th century carriages

 

Thanks guys - great advice - I was looking at Oliver Goldsmith - I know 'The Vicar of Wakefield' quite well. And the link(s) to info on carriages are mindblowing - so many varieties!

 

Sinbad