Former Member

Am I the only one who is concerned that after hiding for so long, Russell is now relatively easy to find? When is his father going to show up, and what's going to happen when he does?

YES! I wondered that too, especially as Evan broadcast that they were going to Denmark to see Russell on his Facebook page.   

I have enjoyed this story so far, and agree with A.C. and Headstall's comments on Russell, but I think it is going to take him some time to really get where he wants to be mentally--finally noticing the improvement physically is a great start, but the mental inferiority issues caused by his father are very deep.

Off to read the new chapter--Thanks Tim!!

ColumbusGuy, I am using this to bounce off some major agreement with you. Our author is delving deep into an emotionally 'stunted' teen, but one who was delayed for good reason - a serious, chronic condition. Gary (Headstall) made similar, and in my opinion insightful, comments in his review of chapter 5. I hope everybody has a chance to check it out (and read ALL the reviews too, for they are all informative in their own ways).

https://www.gayauthors.org/forums/story/timothy-m/cluelesscamping/chapterreviews/5

Irri,

I was just wondering what you meant by this part of your review for Lenny's journal entry (Chapter 14):

"Oh dear, this is so deeply sad."

Timothy M –

Nature is a big theme in this book – as applied even by its title – which, now that they are in Copenhagen, is transitioning into a city vibe with lots of fun place references. Will we ever get to see some pretty pictures (via links, hint hint hint!) to the places so abundantly mentioned!?!

Well, as is my want (lol), now that I have created this forum as a total fan of the work, I'd like to make the first posting too!

This book has a special, and somewhat difficult quality to pin down. There are many currents of emotions here, but these seem to flow somewhat sluggishly through the first-person narration of Russell. He feels, especially at the beginning, that he is not a very interesting person, and that he regards himself with near-contempt as someone left behind. This narrative tone changes in the skilled hands of our author, so that after he admits to himself and Jacob that he is in love, Russell's voice begins to ring clearer and clearer. A joy creeps into it, and that joy is captivating.   

For discussion of themes and topics. 

The book can be found here: https://www.gayauthors.org/story/timothy-m/cluelesscamping

Here is the pilot episode for Space:1999 from 1974. I think you will be surprised at how high the productions values were for that time, and for a space program. (But remember, this was only three years before Star Wars was released, so they knew how to do!)

 

If nothing else, skip ahead to catch some the Funkiest program music ever shown on TV! That starts at minute 4:50

Here is the pilot episode for Space:1999 from 1974. I think you will be surprised at how high the productions values were for that time, and for a space program. (But remember, this was only three years before Star Wars was released, so they knew how to do!)

The Eagle 1, from Space: 1999. Man, did l love that show! Re-watching it as an adult, I confirmed what I thought about it as a child; it is dark and edgy. There is a special quality to that particular piece of science fiction that is rarely match for intensity and brooding sophistry. 

Here is information on Eagle 1:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Transporter

And here is the toy version, which was awesomely detailed, and frightfully expensive for a mass produced toy in the 70's.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Eagle+1,+from+Space:1999?&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=76H7U7vjEI7noATZkYLYBA&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=763

Now what I really want to know is what kind of tree the Fag Tree is. It seems to have the same type of pods as the Cercis species, but to be a much larger tree.

Oh right - I searched for the name cigar tree and came up with this info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa

The cigar tree and its slang name is used in the story as example of how things get horribly twisted around. The tradition of the pods being a substitute for tobacco made the North American tree a handy one to test out in other parts of the world. When it got to British-controlled territories, the smoking connection led the locals to begin referring to it as 'the fag tree,' meaning 'the cigarette tree.' There is debate and some evidence to show that the prejudiced use of fag for Gay men began around the 1917, or exactly the time that American soldiers were hobnobbing with soldiers from Britain and her Commonwealth/Empire. In any event, the term 'fag tree' returned with these men and became equal to 'cigar tree,' but as time went by the fag and cigarette connection was totally lost. So, we have an assumption on the part of people that the tree is connected to Gay men in some way, and thus the speculation of what that could be.

Needless to say, none of this is really fiction. When we were kids, we called it both cigar and fag tree, and talked about the meaning of the second name just as the kids in the story do.     

Interesting that a local tree of the same genus (Cercis) but not being the same species, nonetheless gets called Judas Tree by the town. Probably this stems from immigrants seeing a familiar looking tree and immediately saying "Oh look, the Judas Tree grows here too." By the time botanists got there, the town was already named Judas Tree, lol.

 

You are right about settlers seeing something new but similar and using the 'old' word for it. Think of European cranberries vs. North American cranberries, Asian mulberry vs. European mulberry, and the same holds true with the Judas tree. I also think of the old word pumpkin, or pompion, which was used before the discovery of America to describe a pattypan form of gourd that was eaten in May (as cited in the OED). Now, it's the North American varieties of pumpkin that have replaced the old meaning entirely.     

Here are some incidentals about Dignity and how I came to write it.

 

 

Composition:

 

I wrote and completed the manuscript in twenty days, from March the first to the twentieth 2014. The difference between the completed manuscript and the final typescript is approximately one percent or less. I began the project in an experimental vein for me by not having any notes or outlines. As I went along I started a list of character names with details as to how I had descried them. The scope of the work was up in the air, but as I approached chapter 10, I realized completing this would mark the end of Sean's running away, and conceived of a second half of equal size to complete the story. At this point, having written half the book and knowing I had only about 25,000 words to wrap it up, I took five days and created detailed notes and outlines. I had very specific targets to hit and I wanted to make sure I got there with all of them. The dream sequences were written last, in order, and at about the pace of two a day.    

 

 

Inspiration:

 

I was inspired to write this book in December of 1990. I was lying in bed with my first boyfriend at his apartment watching the news late at night. There was report of a teen boy who had run away from home rather than face treatment for his cancer (in reality, I have no idea what happened to this boy). As I lay there, chatting with my love, the following ideas occurred to me: it could be a moving story, I would set it in San Francisco (where my bf had lived for awhile), the boy would have to survive the best way he could, and he would meet and fall in love with a fellow hustler. It would be this boy and his love that makes him stop running from his problems and face them. At this same time, I envisioned a roof-top love making scene for the boys, and that the final chapter would happen in a hospital. And that is all. I set the concept aside. When I was writing the piece I told Whitetiger about the genesis of the story and he said you must have been thinking of it a lot, and have everything worked out. No, I told him. I haven’t ever thought about it more than that initial moment of inspiration showed me. Incidentally, I also told Whitetiger what my runaway's alias was, and he totally shocked me. "Sean Holms, the porn star?" he asked. I thought, damn. Now I will have to change it, but he suggested that the teenager may know and like the name because of the man it is associated with, so I kept it!         

But rest assured it will not take me another 20 years to write the sequel

Here are some incidentals about Dignity and how I came to write it.

Composition:

I wrote and completed the manuscript in twenty days, from March the first to the twentieth 2014. The difference between the completed manuscript and the final typescript is approximately one percent or less. I began the project in an experimental vein for me by not having any notes or outlines. As I went along I started a list of character names with details as to how I had descried them. The scope of the work was up in the air, but as I approached chapter 10, I realized completing this would mark the end of Sean's running away, and conceived of a second half of equal size to complete the story. At this point, having written half the book and knowing I had only about 25,000 words to wrap it up, I took five days and created detailed notes and outlines. I had very specific targets to hit and I wanted to make sure I got there with all of them. The dream sequences were written last, in order, and at about the pace of two a day.    

Inspiration:

I was inspired to write this book in December of 1990. I was lying in bed with my first boyfriend at his apartment watching the news late at night. There was report of a teen boy who had run away from home rather than face treatment for his cancer (in reality, I have no idea what happened to this boy). As I lay there, chatting with my love, the following ideas occurred to me: it could be a moving story, I would set it in San Francisco (where my bf had lived for awhile), the boy would have to survive the best way he could, and he would meet and fall in love with a fellow hustler. It would be this boy and his love that makes him stop running from his problems and face them. At this same time, I envisioned a roof-top love making scene for the boys, and that the final chapter would happen in a hospital. And that is all. I set the concept aside. When I was writing the piece I told Whitetiger about the genesis of the story and he said you must have been thinking of it a lot, and have everything worked out. No, I told him. I haven’t ever thought about it more than that initial moment of inspiration showed me. Incidentally, I also told Whitetiger what my runaway's alias was, and he totally shocked me. "Sean Holmes, the porn star?" he asked. I thought, damn. Now I will have to change it, but he suggested that the teenager may know and like the name because of the man it is associated with, so I kept it!         

For anyone not familiar with the flora mentioned in the title, here is what they look like:

https://www.google.com/search?q=red+bud+tree&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Eyz5U9__NoaayASrv4D4AQ&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=763

And here is some information on the species: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercis_canadensis 

Nuh-uh   Kindergarten teachers get to discipline the kids, and go home at the end of the day. They're not living in a welter of wild-eyed 6 year olds in a small space, 24/7. There's nothing weird about wanting to avoid that.

 

Edit: besides Lucas DOES have a reason for staying away, his ex-girlfriend.

His ex, which we only know about starting in chapter 11, has moved away now that she is married. And besides, she was near his grandparents' home, not his parents' house.

I never thought of Luke Ramsey as gay. But I guess one could argue that no man could endure such religious dogma and mother issues the way a gay could. I did like how they cultivated this sweet relationship between two very unlikely character. Then again I once read somewhere that even though the actress playing Nan had Down's syndrome, that didn't necessarily mean that the character of Nan had Down's syndrome. If that was the case than that's pretty awesome.

And actually you said the selfish girl was nice because she went to the boy's house with Nan. In reality, Madison went there to bed him! To take him away from Nan, but of course, he didn't want any of the girls at all, lol   

Bryce, in response to my review for chapter 10, you wrote the following:

"Tate never told Casey to keep Sophia way."

Um, I am just a hapless reader, you'll have to forgive me , but all I have to go on it what you 'show' in the book (and not what you may 'tell' us about it outside of the chapter in question).

This is what you show us in chapter 10:

“I thought I told you not to bring her,” Tate hissed.

Casey had never witnessed such intensity in the other man. Such venom in his voice.

“W-What are you talking about?” he stammered.

“That friend of yours is upstairs in my bedroom sucking some guy off,” Tate spoke. “I told you not to bring that slut.”

So, all a reader should know at this point is that Tate asked him not to bring Sophia. It is very easy to 'show' us that Tate is off base, or confused, or – something. All you have to do is have Casey say at that moment:

  “No you didn't!"

That would raise all the reasonable doubt needed to tip Tate back into the 'horrible boyfriend' column. But the way you left it, there's no reason to suspect that Casey did not willfully avoid his fella's request not to bring around a person who hates Tate.

On a different point, lol – if Lucas loves little kids enough to want to be a kindergarten teacher – which is not an easy job – it is highly implausible that he will not want to be around his nieces and nephews to 'enjoy' them. With the way you have set Lucas up as a person, his avoiding checking in on his little brother every chance he gets seems way out of character too. Of course, that's my take on him. Perhaps you show us more information later, like this avoidance of home is based on another aspect of his family life that we don't know about yet. That could be, but it would have to be very bad to loosen the ties that bind him to Pierre and to the younger members of his clan.

And, no one wants to spend time in the dorm, alone, during holidays. If they do, that's because the loneliness there is the lesser of the two evils, and home is not a good place to be at all. Voice of experience here, I've been there… 

Congratulations AC...well deserved and not at all surprising...I feel very comfortable directing friends in Dignity's direction...not to nag...but I will...have you started or are close to starting the sequel? Cheers...Gary

Gary, the answer is: yes, no, completely and not really. I have lots of ideas and know the direction to take, but the heady mix is still brewing. 

Please keep pestering me about it, periodically, that is    

I should've pointed out that the sweetest moments of Madison Montgomery's character was her interactions with Nan. She always called Nan bad names but she was the one always going with her to the hospital or over to see Luke.

Ah yes. See, I had forgotten about that. BTW, I thought for sure Luke was going to come out to Nan, but I guess he never got around to it before his crazy mother tried to enema the gay away, and killed him.     

I am writing this because I want to give people a little of bit of insight into where Sophia is coming from. As a huge fan of Ryan Murphy's American Horror Story, I fell in love with the third installment Coven. There is an actress named Emma Roberts - niece of Julia and daughter of Eric - who played a witch/actress named Madison Montgomery on the series. Madison and Sophia are quite alike though I would venture to say that Madison is more of a sociopath than Sophia is. Sophia does care about those she chooses to care about but she goes about her life very rarely considering the consequences of her actions. This often gets her into trouble.

The character that you site was highly self-absorbed and a user of people. She killed a guy early on, sewed him back together with other frat-guy parts that she liked better (like a bigger yooohooo), and reanimated him. Then knowing that her witchy-school rival liked this Frankenstein boy, she seduced him and tried to make him her sexual thrall. Madison was quite the character! I don't remember a moment in the series when she acted like she cared about anyone but herself. I may be wrong, and you can remind me if i have forgotten.

Sophia is not nearly that that bad. Just a messed-up girl, probably needing love like the rest of us.    

What??? Chandler and Michaela have already broken up!! And ole Tater overreacted hugely, enough to actually lay hands on Casey!!

 

And how did you manage to drive me into defending Sophia?

If you reflect on what I am saying, you will get it.

Why did Tate lay hands on his bf? Because his bf's bff was in TATE'S room defiling it with opposite-sexed nastiness (the ultimate invasion of any Gay person's personal space!).  She did that. Sophia did that. I ask you to think why..? I would posit the most plausible motivation would be for her to maintain tension between Casey and Tate. She feeds off of others despair, and seem to be willing to create it, at least in the case of Casey. This is a person Tate asked Casey not to bring to his house, and he did, and she 'did it' within the first 10 mins of being there - she ran to Tate's bedroom with the first guy she found. I think you or I would be equally upset in such a situation. Tate's reaction, at least on an emotional level, is super easy to relate to. It's how any of us would feel at the same moment, however, how he acted - that is a different matter.

Reread the text. It is all there. At this point I will await further evidence from upcoming chapters, and set Sophia aside. She's really not worth all the effort. lol

And thank you Irritable1 for a lively debate. I know I have not won you over ; -)    

I didn't realize I had created such a monster. LoL. Poor Sophia. She's going to have to work hard to get in your good graces.

Man, the thing is, I do not think she's monstrous - I think you have drawn an incredibly real character for all of us to consider and debate. Flawed = every-day person.

So, did she choose Tate's room to create further drama? Is that WHY she picked the first decent guy and started sexing him up...?

I would rather you don't answer here, but hopefully you do answer that in the coming chapters. I am dying to know!!! Love your book <3   

You forget, we have an eye-witness report - she was servicing him, and he was not reciprocating, or else Tate would have said: "They're doing it in my room" lol, and not "she blowing a guy in my room."

 

And do you think it was some sort of 'accident' that she chose Tate's room, out of presumably all the many bedrooms, to take her 'foundling' sex object..? lol  

 

She's a user. Classic signs to support her emotional co-dependencies. She wants to make a big deal that Chandler and Tate are wrong for her support-base so that they are stuck feeding her her needed supply of reassurances.

Now, now. We don't know it was unreciprocated.  How do you know she wasn't returning the favor? (there's a smiley I want to use here, but don't have the courage) Secondly, the guy sounded nice.

 

 

I'm seeing insensitive, but not user of people. Drinking problem, maybe, but no more so than many college-age people, though maybe more men. 

You forget, we have an eye-witness report - she was servicing him, and he was not reciprocating, or else Tate would have said: "They're doing it in my room" lol, and not "she's blowing a guy in my room."

She's a user. Classic signs to support her emotional co-dependencies. She wants to make a big deal that Chandler and Tate are wrong for her support-base so that they are stuck feeding her her needed supply of reassurances.

As of today, there have been 1,000 views of chapter one. Thanks to all of you who have read, or intend to read. Your support of this project means the world to me.