methodwriter85

As a guy who never conformed to gender stereotypes, I gotta say your son sounds awesome, Lugh!

There's this program, called What Would You Do. They set up various scenarios, and film it. In this case, the scenario is, "What happens when a boy wants to buy a doll and his father doesn't approve"? I thought it was pretty interesting. And it begs the question- if you had a son who wanted to play with dolls, would you buy him one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dao7h6XhzkM I loved the responses people had- that in the end of the day, we should let kids be who they want to be, and play with what they want to play with.

Yeah, I really don't think JP's grooming 13-year olds for family leadership yet. I think at this point JP would be working to install the humanitarian streak within his grandkids, like what he did with Stefan when he was a teenager. As for the lack of cohesiveness for Generation 4, I think it lies in the fact that they didn't grow up together in the same town or went to the same school, as previous generations had. They have very different interests that go outside of the family businesses, and may take them out of Claremont, or Palo Alto, or Malibu. I also think that Gen 3 was very tight because the death of Billy brought them closer together- the three remaining kids just kinda banded together. I also think that because Brad and Claire started their respective families at just about the same time, that gave them a common ground. Ace took a little longer to have a kid, but he wound up a family man as well. JJ, I'm not seeing as a guy who wants to have kids or start a family, and I can see him as a guy who becomes continental and moves around a lot. Will I could see having kids, but not until he's in his late 20's/early 30's. Darius is the only one I can see having that whole married in the tony suburbs life. Maybe John as well. There isn't a real glue to this generation of kids, or a real leader. Which I actually find pretty refreshing. We don't really need a repeat of "Brad as the crown prince with Ace as his second-in-command, Claire as the princess, and Billy as the rogue prince trying to take crown prince down" in this current group of youngsters.

I knew that cocaine didn't really seem like something that' would be popular with these kids! It seemed like for the most part, the only kids I knew who were serious about coke in the 2000's were guidos(which I don't think they have on the West Coast) and frat boys. Everyone else was using Adderall, Oxy, or something manufactured.

Hey guys, was cocaine still the drug of choice for soCal teens in 2000? Over here it had switched over to stuff like XTC and oxycontin. I saw some cokeheads, but it seemed to lean more towards the pharmaceuticals. Would Will, JJ, etc know a good deal of cokeheads in 2000, or would their friends have been into stuff more like oxy and the like?

Wouldn't that be Brad's job to prepare Will to lead some day, not JP? And god, that would be such a slap in the face to Darius, JJ, and the other grandkids. I'm not really sure how well the whole French "head of family" deal is going to transfer to Gen 4- they're close, but they're not a tight, cohesive unit where I can imagine someone listening to the head. They seem way too into their own things, and I wouldn't be surprised if they wound up spread out all over the world. And I'm still thinking it should be Claire that takes over head of family when JP goes, not Brad. She'd be better at it. Of course, Gen 4 is at most 31 years old in 2011, so it might be a moot point to imagine Will or some other guy as head of the family, barring some tragic depletion of Gen 3.

John's a lacrosse player. Yay! I love lacrosse players. They look so sexy in those uniforms.

But actually, if you think about, Frank Zappa's children reflected the hippie trend of naming your children out-there names in the 1960's and 1970's. Joaquin Phoenix's real name is Leaf, and his sister was named Rainbow.

Chapter 12 -When Gathan and Kristin enjoy each other's company. "Nice And Slow" by Usher -When John reiterates there's no need to place labels on everything. "As Long As You Love Me" by the Backstreet Boys - At the end of the chapter, when Will realizes that boyfriends can be high maintainance, but doesn't mind it, and he gets all puppy love with John. "These Are the Times by Dru Hill

I was thinking it would be more likely Wade interning for a politician or a PAC in DC. It's the summer, it's where he lives, he's into politics, and he's close to his brother so I can see Wade wanting to spend the summer at home. Especially since it's the summer after Beau Danfield graduates from high school, and I could defnitely see Wade wanting to spend time with his brother before he goes to college. I'm not saying that Wade needs to be at the Pentagon, just that he's in DC when it happens. Why not use having a character who's from that area? It's not exactly stretching logic to have Wade be in DC during the 9/11- I'm not even saying that he has to be AT the Pentagon. Just in the city, and observing people's reaction to it. And then Matt, wanting to be close to Wade, decides to take an internship with a business company in New York City. Again, not saying that it has to be Cantor-Fitzgerald, but just a well-respected company in the area. Matt would have the win of being in a city within commutting distance to Wade on weekends, working at a great company, and most of all, getting to be a 21-year old experiencing a city as cool as New York. That sounds like just the kind of fun adventure you'd want to have at that age- experiencing living and working for the summer in a city as diverse and culturally rich as New York. See? I'm willing to make adjustments and reasonings to make things more plausible. In any event, Mark's pretty much saying that the characters are involved somehow. It's interesting to speculate how.

That's a great point, Tim, and something I thought about. I was also thinking it was possible that Wade might have socialized with people who were working in the WTC during his private school days- it's not that much of a leap to assume that a few private school kids in D.C. might someday wind up in New York City in coveted entry or internship positions at places like that. *waits for Centexy to vehemently deny that it's even remotely possible for a kid from Wade's school in D.C.- let's say he went to St. Albans or something- to wind up working for a WTC financial firm*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EV7uuW6zJg Here's a vid that shows the Windows on the World: Man. It's silent, but that makes it kinda even more effective to me. Just something about the fact that you've got this happy couple celebrating their engagment in a building that's going to be the site of such horror.

Damn, there's just no convincing you, is there? Look, I think we've gotten to the point where neither side is going to budge, so let's just move past this debate. Another thing to think about- the odds of someone knowing a victim in Columbine would be something like 1 out of 8, 277, 114, yet Cole's girlfriend did. And the odds of knowing Matthew Shephard was something like 1 out of 281,000, 000 million, yet Matt ran into him at a bar. Just because someone has a better chance of getting struck by lightening, why shouldn't it be done? I mean come, Isidore gave birth to twins with two different fathers! It's a freakin' soap opera! We're SUPPOSED to see crazily excpetional things happen to these people! But anyway. Mark has the idea for 9/11 in his head. Now we just need to know about the layout of the building. Here are some videos:

Did you read the WTC Mall article I sent you? It's mainly about the mall, but it gives you a sense of the buildings as well. It's kinda weird how I revived this thread just as Bin Laden got killed. Weird timing.

Well, he would still know her, in passing. Centext was arguing that nobody would know anyone who died in 9/11, period, and Tim argued that that's not really the case. I'm not saying these people have to lose close friends. Mark had the idea that one of the family members should die, but you guys argued him down from that. So what about them losing some friends and/or acquaintances? Maybe it's not necessary, but again I don't see why Mark shouldn't add that in if he manages to make it work. And yeah, they miss out on some historical events- but when you've got a story that's going to be based almost entirely around 9/11, I think it's reasonable to assume that Mark is going to find some way to make it personal. He's already planning on making things personal for J.P. when it comes to the Iraq War.

I could see that, too. Especially since he's from that area, and there's a good chance he might be in New York City on 9/11. I imagine John personally being there might sear it really hard into his psyche.

Maybe it's not necessary, but again- why not add it if it's something that's not out of the realm of possiblity? It's a stretch, but it's not requiring a total suspension of disbelief. And haven't you noticed that it's the CAP m.o. to add the personal touch to the larger national historical narraitve? Stefan knew Rock Hudson, who later died of AIDS. Matt knew Matt Shephard, who died in a gay bashing. J.P. Crampton just happened to have met JFK and Jackie Kennedy before he got shot. Matt's roomate Cole had a girlfriend with a stepbrother who just happened to have been a victim in the Columbine High School school shooting. I mean, wouldn't one of the family members knowing someone who dies totally fit into the CAP m.o.? In any event, I would like for Wade and possibly Matt to be in D.C. at the time. It's not at all unlikely for Wade to be in D.C. since school doesn't start yet, and it's the summer before senior year therefore it's internship time. I do feel like the Danfields were added in to give people a sense of how the East Coast felt about 9/11, vs. the West Coast people. Blue, indirectly though you've had people go off to the War on Terror though, right? That's a connection, and one that I absolutely think needs to get explored in this coming decade. Gathan's defnitely going to see a lot of his friends go off to fight.

It kinda sucks, but it's an honor just to have made it so far.

In all honesty, I'm not sure John Carullo would deal with living in Ohio if they wound up settling down. Gathan is pretty much going back to Claremont after he graduates, and J.C. seems too close to his family to not move back to New York/New Jersey after his finishes. Italian families don't like having their kids live more than 30 minutes away, it seems like. I would think they'd work well, but only for the duration they're in college. When real world hits(and in JC's case it's going to be 2001 or 2002), I can't see it working because they live too far apart. And I don't think they'll have unlimited access to a private jet.

I like the guest lecture at Columbia idea. Maybe Columbia is teaching a class on the 1960's, and they got JP to do a lecture on his involvement in the anti-war campaign?There ould be a delicious irony to that- JP talking about using peace to avoid war, when the United States is about to head into a decade-long war. As for NYU, maybe the film class is a "GLBT In Film" elective, and Robbie got invited to speak because of his prominence as an openly gay movie producer who had just seen the movies he bankrolled sweep the Oscars. Although I'm not sure how big of a deal it would be to be an openly gay movie producer. Openly gay actor with a major film career would be one thing, but I dunno. Maybe he's just getting an award for being a positive role model for gay youth as an openly gay movie producer? And I like the idea of JJ skating in New York. I get the feeling his personality would fit well there.

Something to keep in mind is that this is a soap opera, first and foremost. So outlandish and unlikely things happen to these characters to create drama, like how Isidore gave birth two a set of twins with different fathers or JP and Marcel just happening to be in the Soviet Union when it fell. It's like Forest Gump, the movie where Forest was somehow involved with nearly every major event of the 20th century. It was unlikely, but not impossible, and it was a damn entertaining movie. To paraphrase something that Blue said to me, an unlikelihood doesn't mean it's impossible. If Mark decides to work in having these people know people that died, it might be unlikely, but it wouldn't be impossible and it wouldn't require a total suspension of disbelief to achieve that, either. It's like you almost seem to think that there would be a problem with having some characters who knew people who died because you didn't, and your friends didn't, and therefore the unlikelihood of these characters knowing people that died or losing friends of friends means that Mark shouldn't do that story. I don't agree with that, and I don't see the problem with Mark working in something that might be unlikely, but wouldn't be impossible, and would be something that would heighten the story and sense of loss that this country felt after 9/11. And the thing about 9/11 was the way that it could somehow be so arbitrary in how it effected people. I was reading a story about a guy who, when 9/11 happened, was glad his sister and niece were safe because they were far away from New York City because they had taken a flight to see Disneyland in California. That was on one of the planes that got crashed into the World Trade Center. Weird coincidences and unlikely happenings make up a lot of the individual stories that go into the large 9/11 narrative, and I don't see why Mark should shy away from having 9/11 directly effect the characters since it's not impossible for them to have known people that die, especially given how widely diverse and connected these people are. Good one about Barbara Olson, Timmy. I hadn't thought of that. She would have defnitely cozied up with the Danfields. We do seem to agree about the Iraq War though, being the biggest effect of 9/11 on these guys, especially Gen 4. Gathan's friend Chord practically screams "Future Iraq War Veteran And/Or Casualty." Finally, PLEASE don't get the idea that I'm mule-headed and stubborn. I swear I'm not. Adam Phillips could verify that I'm not a stubborn person who refuses to lose an argument. LOL.

I was actually referring to the Pentagon. People died in that one as well. Given that Wade's a senator son, and senators network with everyone- including the military- it's not that hard to imagine he'd know people who die from that.

That's actually a pretty damn good idea. So let's say it's summer 2001. Wade's in D.C. on his internship. Matt's in New York City at his capital venture investment firm internship. His good friend, John Carullo, is working at Cantor-Fitzgerald. (His major was never specified, so it's possible that he could have been in finance.) Matt intends to attend the financial meeting you're talking about. That would be a good set-up. I guess maybe the Cramptons and Schluters could just watch in horror on the West Coast, but knowing Mark, there's no way they're just going to be standing 3,000 miles away when 9/11 happens. They're somehow going to be in the thick of things. He always figures out a way to bring people to major historical events, such as the Paris riots of 1968 and the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. How would you bring Brad, Stefan, JP, etc etc to New York City? Not necessarily Lower Manhatten, but just the City itself.

You mother-effer. Damn. And I had that in my mind for two years. Alright. It's summer, and Stanford doesn't start school yet. Wade's working in D.C. on an internship his dad set up. To be within commuting distance, Matt took an internship in New York City with a prestigious business firm. To make things interesting, John Carullo's in New York City as well, either on internship or having already graduated and settled into a job. I hope Mark uses him for the 9/11 story...his perspective as someone from that area, and someone who will likely know people who die,(I'm guessing firefighters and the like given his blue-collar background) definitely shouldn't be passed up. There's hockey, but since it's a club, I think the coach might have been relaxed about them starting practice a little later than the other guys. I think Jordan's still going to be some kind of catalyst for getting the guys out to New York City for that Indian Summer week. I don't think all those scenes of the guys in NYC during Millenium were for nothing. I don't think it's that outlandish of an idea for the kids to get a week off from school, if they planned on keeping up with their assignments. Kids constantly got away with going on family vacations.

I said proceeding, not preceding. That would mean the following decades. "Unlikely" doesn't mean impossible; you're right. But if you're doing a story that tries to capture the mindset and feeling of a certain era, using names that weren't representative of the kinds of names people were growing up with can be jarring. A 25-year old named Megan in 1965. Explain that one. LOL.