I didn't understand...
 

...religious organisations will have to "opt in" to offering weddings, with the Church of England and Church in Wales being banned in law from doing so.

The Church of England and Church in Wales are banned from doing what?  It sounds like those two churches are banned from offering same sex weddings while all other denominations are required to opt in to offering weddings.  Is there an error in wording in the BBC article?

The new bill for England and Wales expressly forbids the Church of England and the Church of Wales from carrying out Same sex ceremonies.  not very equal given they are the two largest religious bodies of these nations.

The Scottish Equality bill allows all religious bodies the choice.  Wonder who will back it.

Sounds strange to me.  Makes the fractured landscape of legislation in the US seem less peculiar.  Why permit same sex marriage and prohibit the largest churches from conducting the weddings?  Any federal legislation in the US which forbade a few denominations the right to do something would start an uproar.

Sounds strange to me.  Makes the fractured landscape of legislation in the US seem less peculiar.  Why permit same sex marriage and prohibit the largest churches from conducting the weddings?  Any federal legislation in the US which forbade a few denominations the right to do something would start an uproar.

The Church of England is part of the State. This means in the UK religion is embedded into the State and its structures, with the Church of England as the "established church". Unlike the US where, under the Constitution, State and Religion are "divorced" ...

... allegedly

So why isn't the UK dominated by religion as in other countries with state embedded religion - like Iran - but is in fact less dominated by religion than countries that specifically prohibit state embedded religion - like the US?

The whole thing goes back to Henry VIII when he essentially sacked the Pope and declared himself - as the embodiment of the State - Head of The Church.

That caused generations of religious conflict and oppression, but various historical events caused two things

- the development of religious freedom, backed more recently by anti-discrimination law

- the established church becoming more of a cultural background to people's lives, and not a bible-bashing God-fearing overbearing influence - we've been there and done that thank you The only place you will still find that is Northern Ireland ... and that remains a stark reminder for the rest of us.

So - to answer your question Mike - why has the Church of England been excluded, prevented from conducting gay marriage? Because the CofE leadership were opposing the change. So there was a real threat of rift between established church and State - and the government was not prepared to see 500 years of history unravel to get this law on the books. So by specifically excluding the CofE that threat was neutralised. And the government could do it BECAUSE the CofE is part of the State. And the Church In Wales was swept up in the deal because, I guess, of its close links to the CofE.

It's what's called realpolitik - you have an objective, you know you're not gonna get there in one go - so you do what you can at the time. And in time I'm pretty sure the remaining steps will be taken and the CofE and CinW will fall into line, but in the meantime the objective has been achieved

After all what's all the fuss about anyway? Historically marriage was always about property rights within social groups. It is NOT a Christian institution and Christianity does NOT own marriage. Marriage was around long before Christianity, and for centuries Christianity had no interest in it. Only when it realised there was brand value in marriage did it adopt marriage as its own and develop it into a nice little earner as well as a smart expansion of its scope of control over society.

The Office of National Statistics in the UK provides the following for 2011:

 

Unlike the US, 70 percent of weddings in England and Wales are NOT religious ceremonies. The Roman Catholic Church will also ban such marriages in their churches without question.  

 

However, Zombie's opinions above that for centuries Christianity had no interest in marriage is in my opinion, hyperbole.  

 

Also per the BBC article, a majority of the Conservative MP's voted against the proposal. 

Hyperbole? Well let's consider what I said

"Historically marriage was always about property rights within social groups."

I guess you accept this is fair?

"It is NOT a Christian institution and Christianity does NOT own marriage."

Anthropolgy shows that from early human history marriage has been a matter of custom and law - "the institution of marriage has probably developed out of a primeval habit" [source Edward Alexander Westermarck The History of Human Marriage (1903) Macmillan and Co., Ltd., London] I guess you have no issue with this?

"Marriage was around long before Christianity"

See above

"... and for centuries Christianity had no interest in it."

I'm guessing this is where you do have an issue?

Well consider this. From the early Christian era up to year 325, marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no religious or other ceremony being required. Until 1545, Christian marriages in Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.The couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was not required. This promise was known as the "verbum." [source Shannon McSheffrey (2006). Marriage, Sex, and Civic Culture in Late Medieval London. University of Pennsylvania Press].

In Rome, marriage was a civil matter governed by Imperial law until the collapse of the Roman Empire in the 5th century. At that point the Christian Church courts took over and made marriage into a holy union. As we know the Christian Church's power continued to grow right through the Middle Ages. And that includes its dominance and claimed "ownership" of marriage but it wasn't until the 13th century that marriage was declared to be one of the Christian Church's Seven Sacraments - to be added to baptism and so forth. And it wasn't until the Council of Trent, 1563, that the Christian Church decreed that marriage would be recognized only if the marriage ceremony was officiated by a priest.

"Only when it realised there was brand value in marriage did it adopt marriage as its own and develop it into a nice little earner as well as a smart expansion of its scope of control over society."

Yes, I'm using modern idiom to simplify - but I consider it is fair. Can you show why it isn't? To use old fashioned language "Marriage, is another sacrament that consecrates for a particular mission in building up the Church, and that provides grace for accomplishing that mission." Either way, I think you'll find the meaning is the same

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacraments_of_the_Catholic_Church

As for your stats, what they do not show is the increasing % of non-Christian marriages that MUST be performed via civil marriage to be lawful, with the indigenous population often choosing to "live in sin" thus skewing the stats.  Nor do they show the % of divorcee remarriages that CANNOT be performed in church ... and Britain has a very high divorce rate

As for the voting, sorry you got this wrong. The bill was UNOPPOSED even by those Conservatives who had objected. As the BBC report says "MPs decided not to oppose a number of minor changes agreed by the House of Lords and approved the legislation on Tuesday." The reference to voting concerned earlier motions months ago.

 

The Office of National Statistics in the UK provides the following for 2011:

 

Key Findings

• In 2011, the provisional number of marriages in England and Wales increased by 1.7% to 247,890, from 243,808 in 2010.
• In 2011, the male marriage rate remained at 22.0 marriages per thousand unmarried men aged 16 and over. For women the rate decreased to 19.8 per thousand unmarried women aged 16 and over, from 20.0 in 2010.
• Civil ceremonies accounted for 70% of all marriages that took place in 2011, an increase from 64% in 2001.
• The greatest number of marriages were for men and women aged 25 to 29.
• The largest percentage increase in the number of marriages between 2010 to 2011 was for women aged 55 to 59 and for men aged 60 and over, rising by 6.9% and 6.5% respectively.

Get all the tables for this publication in the data section of this publication .

 

Unlike the US, 70 percent of weddings in England and Wales are NOT religious ceremonies. The Roman Catholic Church will also ban such marriages in their churches without question.  

 

However, Zombie's opinions above that for centuries Christianity had no interest in marriage is in my opinion, hyperbole.  

 

Also per the BBC article, a majority of the Conservative MP's voted against the proposal. 

 

 

The Office of National Statistics in the UK provides the following for 2011:

 

Key Findings

• In 2011, the provisional number of marriages in England and Wales increased by 1.7% to 247,890, from 243,808 in 2010.

And just what is a provisional marriage?  Is this a trial period? You make it to your 5th anniversary and it becomes a permanent marriage?

And just what is a provisional marriage?  Is this a trial period? You make it to your 5th anniversary and it becomes a permanent marriage?

I guess it means the figures haven't yet been audited.