how can you know what Obama really thinks?

and secondly, going to a homophobic church does not necessarily make you homophobic. From what I understand it seems the majority of your American churches are homophobic. I cannot say what Obama may have heard, not rebuked or possibly even participated in agreeing with, but neither can you. I unfortunately have sat through 2 sermons in my time where homosexuality has been negatively discussed or mentioned. I disagreed with what they said, but since one of the churches is my mothers and the pastor is a very nice man who has helped my family enormously and when he hasn't needed to, I did not feel that leaving the church in protest would be necessary. I will discuss my views with him separately, it however does not mean he is a bad guy or a bad church leader. I wish he had different views, and that particularly he never mentions them in church (he only said one comment anyway), but we both respect the other and since I do trust his spirituality for the most part I am happy attending his church when I am home. What's to say Obama is the same? What matters to me anyway is that he IS being supportive of gay rights, he's certainly aiming to make progress.

how can you know what Obama really thinks?

 

and secondly, going to a homophobic church does not necessarily make you homophobic. From what I understand it seems the majority of your American churches are homophobic. I cannot say what Obama may have heard, not rebuked or possibly even participated in agreeing with, but neither can you. I unfortunately have sat through 2 sermons in my time where homosexuality has been negatively discussed or mentioned. I disagreed with what they said, but since one of the churches is my mothers and the pastor is a very nice man who has helped my family enormously and when he hasn't needed to, I did not feel that leaving the church in protest would be necessary. I will discuss my views with him separately, it however does not mean he is a bad guy or a bad church leader. I wish he had different views, and that particularly he never mentions them in church (he only said one comment anyway), but we both respect the other and since I do trust his spirituality for the most part I am happy attending his church when I am home. What's to say Obama is the same? What matters to me anyway is that he IS being supportive of gay rights, he's certainly aiming to make progress.

Okay, let's assume that I'm wrong. Please answer one question for me then.....

If Obama really isn't a homophobe, why does he oppose gay marriage?

I think its about being diplomatic. and pragmatic.

I think its about being diplomatic. and pragmatic.

So, denying an entire segment of the population a right that he himself enjoys is about being diplomatic and pragmatic? I don't think I get where you're coming from.

I don't think Obama is homophobic, or that he likely personally opposes gay marriage (I cannot know for sure of course), but that for the sake of progress (and significant progress) he has chosen not to support or rather actively seek gay marriage. Instead he supports giving in law same-sex couples all the legal benefits of marriage under a different name, which will profoundly positively affect the lives of many. I feel if he did really oppose gay marriage he wouldn't oppose a constitutional amendment.

I understand your argument, there shouldn't be any divisions if equality is absolutely true, and recently had been questioning the UK civil partnerships now that the country/people accepts them for the most part. and whether it was necessary or even possible now to get them to merge marriage and partnerships.

Just because he opposes gay marriages does not make him a homophobe. He has his morals he doesn't beleive two guys should be allowed to get married, thats fine. Doesn't mean he hates all of us for being gay. Just saying.

Just because he opposes gay marriages does not make him a homophobe. He has his morals he doesn't beleive two guys should be allowed to get married, thats fine. Doesn't mean he hates all of us for being gay. Just saying.

Actually, the reason he doesn't support same sex marriage is because he's a homophobe. Also, please examine your second sentence. He has his morals and doesn't believe two guys should be allowed to get married? Morals have nothing to do with gay marriage, unless someone believes that it's morally wrong to be gay. That's not fine. It's wrong.

I don't think Obama is homophobic, or that he likely personally opposes gay marriage (I cannot know for sure of course), but that for the sake of progress (and significant progress) he has chosen not to support or rather actively seek gay marriage. Instead he supports giving in law same-sex couples all the legal benefits of marriage under a different name, which will profoundly positively affect the lives of many. I feel if he did really oppose gay marriage he wouldn't oppose a constitutional amendment.

 

I understand your argument, there shouldn't be any divisions if equality is absolutely true, and recently had been questioning the UK civil partnerships now that the country/people accepts them for the most part. and whether it was necessary or even possible now to get them to merge marriage and partnerships.

Unfortunately, he was asked during a primary debate if he supported same sex marriage, and he said no, that marriage is between a man and a woman. I'm pretty sure that the reason he opposes a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage is because he understands that the constitution's purpose is to limit the power of the federal government over the people, not to restrict people's rights.

I have a lot of trouble with your statement that Obama is a homophobe because of his stand on gay marriage. You might want to consider Rachel Maddow's interview of the gay Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

I have a lot of trouble with your statement that Obama is a homophobe because of his stand on gay marriage. You might want to consider Rachel Maddow's interview of the gay Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

Real quick because I have to run, what I got out of that interview is that Obama let the Bishop deliver an invocation for an event that meant practically nothing, that he used to support gay marriage, and once he entered the inner circle of the DemoKKKrat party, he turned homophobic.

I respect the good Bishop's right to his opinion, as well as everyone else on this forum, but there isn't a single circumstance that I can imagine someone being opposed to gay marriage unless they're homophobic. Their very opposition to same sex marriage would have to be rooted in homophobia.

Nick, I don't know where you get your information. Obama opposes Don't Ask Don't Tell. I happen to think judging him by his church's stance is narrow-minded. He is a pragmatist. Most black people do oppose gay marriage, but I don't think he's one of them. He doesn't exactly support gay marriage, but he is opposed to banning it. If he has his way, there will be civil unions everywhere, and that is a huge step in the right direction. Within the next 20 to 30 years, we will have gay marriage. It's only a matter of time, and historians will point to the 44th President of the United States as one of the warriors for the cause.

Nick, I was one of those who said in a post that we must be willing to compromise, be patient, and persevere. I understand that we want what we want. But, we aren't going to get it now. We need to take what we can get. We need to build on each right we gain and show the majority that we are responsible citizens. I am convinced the day we come when gays have full rights equal to those of straight people.

I for one am not yet impressed with Obama. I keep reminding myself that he is a politician. His agenda is one thing, his accomplishments may be another.

Nick, I don't know where you get your information. Obama opposes Don't Ask Don't Tell. I happen to think judging him by his church's stance is narrow-minded. He is a pragmatist. Most black people do oppose gay marriage, but I don't think he's one of them. He doesn't exactly support gay marriage, but he is opposed to banning it. If he has his way, there will be civil unions everywhere, and that is a huge step in the right direction. Within the next 20 to 30 years, we will have gay marriage. It's only a matter of time, and historians will point to the 44th President of the United States as one of the warriors for the cause.

Tim,

A lot of people oppose Don't Ask Don't Tell. People like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Rielly, Fred Phelps and his entire family, and others.

Don't Ask Don't Tell and Gay Marriage are two totally different issues. Why should we have to wait 20-30 years? Or even one year? How is that even remotely acceptable?

If you'd like to know where I get my info from, well, in this instance, I got it straight from the horse's mouth.

Nick, I was one of those who said in a post that we must be willing to compromise, be patient, and persevere. I understand that we want what we want. But, we aren't going to get it now. We need to take what we can get. We need to build on each right we gain and show the majority that we are responsible citizens. I am convinced the day we come when gays have full rights equal to those of straight people.

 

I for one am not yet impressed with Obama. I keep reminding myself that he is a politician. His agenda is one thing, his accomplishments may be another.

Mike,

I wasn't trying to single you out or anything, but I have to say that I definitely disagree that we should "take what we can get." Is it fair for people who live in California who were planning to be married when gay marriage was legal to have to wait around and take what they can get? This is about separate but equal, a notion that has been demonized in the last 60 years. How can we stand by and accept that for ourselves, or for future generations of lgbt couples that face the same oppression we do?

I'm no friend of Obama. In fact I am a rabid opponent. My main issues are that he doesn't really understand economics and I think his big spending packages are going to make a bigger mess than we've already got. I didn't vote for him.

If he happens to do some positive things for gay people, ya hoo. He made a lot of promises- maybe we'll make some progress.

It's not gay rights that scare me about this guy.

What scares me about Obama is after he's done, is the country going to be the kind of place that you would want to be married in?

I'm no friend of Obama. In fact I am a rabid opponent. My main issues are that he doesn't really understand economics and I think his big spending packages are going to make a bigger mess than we've already got. I didn't vote for him.

 

If he happens to do some positive things for gay people, ya hoo. He made a lot of promises- maybe we'll make some progress.

 

It's not gay rights that scare me about this guy.

 

What scares me about Obama is after he's done, is the country going to be the kind of place that you would want to be married in?

I agree with what you're saying James, but on this forum, the unfortunate fact is that the conversation has to be dumbed down for the Obama-bots because it's all about his celebrity and not his policy. We'll see how much damage this guy can do for the next four years, and hopefully by then, the idiotic Republicans will actually have a platform and a message that doesn't appeal to the lowest common denominator in our nation.