[AFriendlyFace] If No One Notices by AFriendlyFace

[Daisy]

See, suicide is never the solution. But in some cases, it can be easier to understand why people would think so.

 

 

Hi Kevin, well done for a great story.

 

I havent got time to go through all the quotes and reply what I think, I'm procrasinating as it is.

 

But suicide, sigh.

 

I have contemplated it a lot this last year, and before you all worry not because I feel suicidal but as I know several close people who are/have been and have been trying to help them and be a good friend. in fact 2 people who I vaguely knew committed suicide in the last few months, one only 2 weeks ago.

 

Suicide attempts are very different to actual suicide I think. Suicide attempts, even if no-one really discovers them, can often be thought of as appeals for help, because underneath those people usually don't actually want to die, but a better life, another chance. James was attempting to get his friends and familys attention. if the story ends with him Not doing it, all the signals are things like the song, his comments, things he thinks in his mind are obvious signals he is not happy.

 

but of course mental health does factor in, when your mental state is affected such that your perception of reality is changed, thats what I have been battling with the people I know. Its been a mixture of them not recognising (in their depression/desperate state of mind) that they are not doing all that could be done to get better, be happier, so I've pointed out routes to do this and supported them, and my fear that their state of mind will allow them to do something that if they were thinking normally and not being pulled by this sense of doom, desire for non-life, that can overwhelm them, then they most likely wouldnt do something which at the time seems normal, natural and commen-sense. my aim has been to recognise when people are that low/affected, but unfortunatley its proving to be very difficult. those particular people are still alive, but each time they have told me about those times they felt like that, overwhelmed by a desire for death, I look back and wouldnt have been able to tell, which is frightening as I had been watching them quite hard, in fact at those times I even thought they were doing well sometimes. the first of the 2 who ave committed suicide was a guy who was in a mental hospital ward (I'm not actually sure if he was there voluntarily or sectioned or 'advised'), but as far as I know they weren't on a suicide watch (or at least a strict one), and the problems he had disclosed weren't such that to anybody else they'd be extremely depressing, there were other people in the hospital seen as of much greater risk (also based on his behaviour/demeanour), but he managed it in the hospital (there is a review in process).

 

Then there are the people who are determined they are going to die, for them it is not an appeal for help. for those people it definetly won't be a failed attempt, it will work, they will find resources of some kind, they will be inventive, they will make sure people won't be able to revive them or accidentally disturb them. It could be an appeal for help, but what they are doing is helping themselves out of a situation they don't want to be in. and it doesnt have to mean that they haven't tried and thought of lots of different alternatives. I don't think suicide is the solution, I would like to think all situations can be bettered, there is some solution around the corner. But I have had to question that this year. can every life situation be suitably resolved that their quality of life is happy, or at least moderate, worth living. it depends what worth living and happiness is. I have concluded from all thats happened this year that happiness is the most important thing in life, I do not mean as someone once questioned me, to be hedonistic, but I suppose content, not-in pain, or such that you are never-endingly miserable, experience joy, peace. We can tell a person that to be happy they must do this or that, tell this somebody about a problem etc, but how can we guarentee they will be happy at the end, it depends on that person and how they respond, and of course the nature of whats going on/the situation. I can tell a person that they must keep going, keep trying to find the solution, or working towards solutions, but do I have the right. what if they are constantly in misery and by searching for a solution their torture is prolonged until they die of natural reasons. I don't know what the answer is, or even what I believe, but these questions are ones I've been asking myself. and then there is, if this world is not perfect, never can be, then true happiness can never be found (I don't actually think this), but I was panicking about this in january, because if its not possible I concluded at one crazy point that maybe my mum was right, she didnt have a chance at happiness anymore- the obstacles were too great, even philosophically against her, there was too much in her way, and the only way she could be happy was heaven, and well, then I panicked and got upset of course. but are there some circumstances where a tolerable life isnt available... What is so great about life that it must be kept at all costs..., that it is always the solution.

if so, are we then in the wrong to deny them, and condemn them. and then when it comes to those who know the 'victim', how are we supposed to tell when we are becoming selfish ourselves, if we think along that argument and maybe prevent people from doing things, maybe by emotional blackmail, maybe physical restraint, maybe not assisting euthenasia. and what about when someone doesnt die soon enough. is it selfish to even think that or is it the person who hasnt died/committed suicide the selfish one. I'm talking about situations where someone else is causing another pain/misery for being in their life but for whatever reason they cannot abandon that person. where do you draw the lines in all these sands.

 

suicide is not simple.

 

a tip for if you know someone is depressed/has suicidal thoughts. if they are begining anti-depressants, they will start to kick in about 4 weeks in. but the depression will still be there then, that won't have been begun to be addressed by the tablets. what will happen though is they get their motivation back, say if they have been lethargic, dispirited. so bad suicidal thoughts + motivation/energy = dangerous. just beware.

 

 

right well, sorry for being morbid. but I welcome people's thoughts, these are just a ramble of thoughts, ideas, not all that I agree with or believe in, but well that need thinking about.

 

Celia

[G-Galloway]

Hi Kevin

 

Just joined gay authors and your story was the first I read.

Loved the open ending. Keep the good writing

 

Cheers!

[AFriendlyFace]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful words, Celia

 

Hi Kevin

 

Just joined gay authors and your story was the first I read.

Loved the open ending. Keep the good writing

 

Cheers!

Thanks G! I'm incredibly flattered that mine was the first you read

 

I hope you'll check out my other story, BMAD, as well if you get a chance.

 

 

 

Take care all have a great day

Kevin

[kitten]

Hi Kevin!

 

'Giving Up' was the first story of yours that I read, and as I threatened in my comment on that story, I went looking for more. So, here I am, having just finished 'If No One Notices', and feeling a desire to comment. However, it seems that pretty much everything I wanted to say has already been said by others in this thread. I suppose it's my own fault for being a Johnny-come-lately!

 

Anyways, as you will know, I'm far too locquacious just to say 'me too'!

 

It was a very well written and absorbing story and dealt with a sad subject. My gut feeling was that James was dead at the end, but even before reading this thread I had hopes that perhaps he could be still alive. You are obviously kinder to your readers than I was in my recent story on a similar subject.

 

I guess James is a reasonably common name, though I found it a little disconcerting to find that I'd also used that name when you'd already used it in a story dealing with the same subject. Actually, I'm very glad that I hadn't read your story before I wrote 'Just Two More Days', because if I had it might have influenced how I wrote it. Indeed, it's even conceivable that I might have decided not to write JTMD at all!

 

Well, back to James in 'If No One Notices'. Was he suffering from real depression, and if so, had it been going on for years since the childhood events he remembers? Or was he using those remembered events to reinforce and almost justify his more recent depression?

 

To be honest, I must admit that I find it hard to have a great deal of sympathy for James (does that mean I'm heartless??). As others have said, much of his problem is that he's thought himself into the role of 'victim'.

 

In many ways, presuming James is actually dead, I have more sympathy for Kenny, being left in the s**t like this. Also, when they were 13, Kenny came out to James, his best friend. This must have been a very difficult thing to do, and must have showed a lot of trust. Yet, six years later, James still had not reciprocated that trust.

 

The fact that INON gave rise to so much thought shows that it is a great story and very well written.

Well done!

Thanks for writing and sharing it.

 

There's nothing more to say, so I'll shut up now.

 

Kit

[AFriendlyFace]

Hey Kit

 

'Giving Up' was the first story of yours that I read, and as I threatened in my comment on that story, I went looking for more. So, here I am, having just finished 'If No One Notices', and feeling a desire to comment. However, it seems that pretty much everything I wanted to say has already been said by others in this thread. I suppose it's my own fault for being a Johnny-come-lately!

 

Anyways, as you will know, I'm far too locquacious just to say 'me too'!

Yay! I'm so glad you did check out "If No One Notices" as well!

 

LOL, and you never have to worry about being too loquacious around here!

 

It was a very well written and absorbing story and dealt with a sad subject. My gut feeling was that James was dead at the end, but even before reading this thread I had hopes that perhaps he could be still alive. You are obviously kinder to your readers than I was in my recent story on a similar subject.

 

I guess James is a reasonably common name, though I found it a little disconcerting to find that I'd also used that name when you'd already used it in a story dealing with the same subject. Actually, I'm very glad that I hadn't read your story before I wrote 'Just Two More Days', because if I had it might have influenced how I wrote it. Indeed, it's even conceivable that I might have decided not to write JTMD at all!

Oh wow! Then I'm really glad you didn't read it first too, because JTMD is an excellent story and I've have felt awful depriving readers (myself included!) of it!

 

LOL, I noticed the name thing right away too though! Maybe people named James attract suicide or something

 

Well, back to James in 'If No One Notices'. Was he suffering from real depression, and if so, had it been going on for years since the childhood events he remembers? Or was he using those remembered events to reinforce and almost justify his more recent depression?

Well, that's definitely open to individual interpretation. It's my opinion that James was suffering from a sort of chronic Dysthymia all along and that he had either 'snapped' or something had happened to gradually escalate the situation to boiling point. I think that would actually make more sense in terms of the whole 'no one noticing' thing. If he suddenly started acting depressed then I think it's likely that Kenny would have noticed, if on the other hand he had this chronic low grade sadness and withdrawn personality then it probably was taken as just that, his personality.

 

 

To be honest, I must admit that I find it hard to have a great deal of sympathy for James (does that mean I'm heartless??). As others have said, much of his problem is that he's thought himself into the role of 'victim'.

 

In many ways, presuming James is actually dead, I have more sympathy for Kenny, being left in the s**t like this. Also, when they were 13, Kenny came out to James, his best friend. This must have been a very difficult thing to do, and must have showed a lot of trust. Yet, six years later, James still had not reciprocated that trust.

That's rather exactly my opinion too. In fact I was concerned that everyone would absolutely hate James and think he was the biggest prick on the planet for what he did to Kenny. However, I tried to portray James in a sympathetic, understandable light. His suicide would certainly hurt Kenny a great deal, especially when he's this vulnerable, but I don't think James ever meant to hurt Kenny or even really thought about it much.

 

Indeed, when Kenny came home and mentioned that he couldn't reach James due to James' cell phone being off, James felt guilty for that. He felt guilty for not being able to provide a tangible, concrete thing for Kenny, but even then it didn't occur to him that he as an individual might matter to Kenny (and his family). To James, they didn't notice him and he probably figured they'd forget about him soon enough. I think that attitude and frame of reference is one of the hallmarks of a suicidal person. Suicide is a horribly selfish, mean thing to do, but someone who is suicidal is (unless it is for spiteful, revenge purposes) is unlikely to think about it. All they see is that no one will particularly care, or notice.

 

...BUT that's just totally my own speculation!! I hope the story is open to other forms of interpretation.

 

 

The fact that INON gave rise to so much thought shows that it is a great story and very well written.

Well done!

Thanks for writing and sharing it.

Thank you very much! I am really flattered by the wonderful and insightful feedback that this story has generated! I was quite nervous about posting this one - in fact I almost didn't - so I'm very pleased and honoured that people found it compelling

 

 

Thanks!

 

-Kevin

[Former Member]

I know, I know...I'm just a tad late!

 

There isn't too much I can add to the previous comments, so I guess I will just give you my initial reactions to the story.

 

I think that James is dead, unfortunately. I didn't even consider an alternative until I read other comments.

 

I felt for both James and Kenny. Kenny went through something horrible, and it seemed to me he wanted James to help him through that. I didn't really feel that he was self-centered in his actions, he was turning to his best friend for support during a hard time. James, on the other hand, never trusted anyone enough to speak up about his problems. Maybe he left hints, but not anywhere during the events we were shown.

 

Thanks for sharing! You did a wonderful job not only in the story, but in generating commentary on a generally uncomfortable topic.

[AFriendlyFace]

I know, I know...I'm just a tad late!

I'm just happy you made it at all, Jess!

 

 

I felt for both James and Kenny. Kenny went through something horrible, and it seemed to me he wanted James to help him through that. I didn't really feel that he was self-centered in his actions, he was turning to his best friend for support during a hard time. James, on the other hand, never trusted anyone enough to speak up about his problems. Maybe he left hints, but not anywhere during the events we were shown.

I would agree with all your points except perhaps for the last one. I did mean to show that James was leaving hints. The letter he hastily shoved into the drawer, his general nervousness and surprise at seeing James unexpectedly, his turned off cell phone, his evasive answer to what he had planned (which he did briefly register anger and sadness over), and lastly of course the note Kenny almost saw at the end of the story, the locked bedroom door, and the sad song.

 

Of course Kenny would have had to have been looking in order to see those things. The fact that he wasn't can indeed be attributed to his own situation. It's just hard to know where all the blame lies. I would tend to echo the opinion of most of the readers who said that James should have tangibly and explicitly vocalized his feelings and asked for help.

 

Thanks for sharing! You did a wonderful job not only in the story, but in generating commentary on a generally uncomfortable topic.

And thank you very much for reading and commenting!

 

-Kevin

[Former Member]

I would agree with all your points except perhaps for the last one. I did mean to show that James was leaving hints. The letter he hastily shoved into the drawer, his general nervousness and surprise at seeing James unexpectedly, his turned off cell phone, his evasive answer to what he had planned (which he did briefly register anger and sadness over), and lastly of course the note Kenny almost saw at the end of the story, the locked bedroom door, and the sad song.

 

Of course Kenny would have had to have been looking in order to see those things. The fact that he wasn't can indeed be attributed to his own situation. It's just hard to know where all the blame lies. I would tend to echo the opinion of most of the readers who said that James should have tangibly and explicitly vocalized his feelings and asked for help.

My fault - I didn't make my comment very clear! I meant that James hadn't left any clues behind that we saw leading up to the conclusion. Did he leave clues along the way that would have let people know he needed help? They may have been there, but we just didn't see them in the story. I'm not blaming James by any means. He didn't communicate his emotional needs to anyone, but did anyone ever really take the time to ask?

 

I completely agree that he had left clues for Kenny during the conclusion. Unfortunately things that would have probably tipped Kenny off (or at least should have) weren't even noticed because of his own situation.

 

Anyways, hope that clarifies the subject!

[Zeoanne]

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2008 by taina1959

[Zeoanne]

My experiences in this matter tell me that suicide's attempt is always an appeal of help.

Am I right ?

Old bob

 

Wrong, at least in my own experience. Only diff. I didn't use a shotgun or knife, but took around 500 pills, you read it right, 500, before going to sleep. Suicide is NOT meant as an attempt, is meant as an end. End to the pain, the ridicule, the ignoring and also the physical abuse, but nonetheless, an end. Then, if you're lucky to be rescued (or unlucky), you are submitted through all the psychiatry/psychology (which my dad, believe it or not is/was one! HA!) and you have the Arshole tell you "how could you have put YOUR parents through all that?" WHA? Yeah, it happened to me, making me feel worst than before I tried to end it all. On top of it all my oldest sister had just died a few months earlier (1975), she was the only one I could relate to in the household. After that, life has been quite difficult but I guess I've learned to live with it even if not happy.

[Canuk]

i realise that this comment is now some two years after the event, but just a thought - one suggested in an earlier post - did James commit suicide?. the way I read it he didn't!

the blood decscribed was the gay bashing, yes James fully intened to commit suicide, but Kenny's return having been bashed (causing the letter to be stuffed into the drawer) put it off - in his weird and selfsih was Kenny needs James and James realises this. I read the story as of averted suicide.

Of course the author didn't make this point in any of her comments, so in all likelihood I have it completely wrong, however I would suggest that the story is (cleverly, to my mind) ambiguous .

[AFriendlyFace]

i realise that this comment is now some two years after the event, but just a thought - one suggested in an earlier post - did James commit suicide?. the way I read it he didn't!

the blood decscribed was the gay bashing, yes James fully intened to commit suicide, but Kenny's return having been bashed (causing the letter to be stuffed into the drawer) put it off - in his weird and selfsih was Kenny needs James and James realises this. I read the story as of averted suicide.

Of course the author didn't make this point in any of her comments, so in all likelihood I have it completely wrong, however I would suggest that the story is (cleverly, to my mind) ambiguous .

 

Thanks, I certainly was going for ambiguity

 

It's up to the reader to interpret.