[DomLuka] TOU 22

[Conner]

I just see Marissa differently. She's done some terrible things, but who hasn't? And now she's earnestly trying, in a bossy teenager way, to make everybody be nice to each other. Yes, she's pushing this too hard and in the wrong way, but it's not like she has a lot of choices, since she's not willing to just wait.

 

Marissa has choices like any of the other characters in this story. The choices she is making are largely self-serving. Marissa is simply looking after Marissa.

[Lucy Kemnitzer]

Marissa has choices like any of the other characters in this story. The choices she is making are largely self-serving. Marissa is simply looking after Marissa.

 

 

In what way is she simply looking after Marissa --now? Let's look at her history.

 

Her goal in high school has been to be the queen of the straight high school hierarchy. She's been building herself a little empire, complete with utterly acceptable, pretty, well-liked, normal boyfriend. The story starts off because she's starting to act bitchy in order to strengthen her position. But why does she feel that her position needs strengthening? Why does she need to build a wall between herself and Trina?

 

I think, as she said recently, she's becoming aware that Quinn is likely gay, and she's feeling her structure crumbling, and just like Quinn and Brad, her best friends forever, she reacts by panicking and behaving oddly. Only because she has girl culture, her outward behavior just looks like bitchy girl social climbing behavior instead of frank insanity like Quinn's.

 

Being the first of the three to freak out, then, she's had the longest to come to her senses.

 

Okay, now that her boyfriend has been acting completely strangely for months, and massive parts of her high school social structure have crumbled, she could be shoring herself up by laying the whole thing on Quinn and walking away clean. That's not what she's doing. She's trying, in her impulsive, bossy teenaged fashion, to get everybody back on speaking terms and restore her friendship with Quinn -- not her boyfriend-girlfriend status -- while Quinn is still acting strangely.

 

She's throwing away her chance to disassociate herself with the dangerous-status person in order to re-establish friendship, and even more so, to re-establish friendship between Quinn and Brad.

 

Maybe she's doing it to make herself feel better, but really, isn't that why people have friends? To feel more human?

 

She isn't doing this smoothly or gracefully, but she's as much an inexperienced kid as anybody else in the story.

[NaperVic]

She isn't doing this smoothly or gracefully, but she's as much an inexperienced kid as anybody else in the story.

 

Good Points Lucy. As if the choices Quinn makes are not self-serving.

 

Quinn is lucky that his friends are still trying to salvage their friendship. It may not ever be the same, but the building blocks of true friendship are still there.

 

Vic

[rknapp]

I'm having a difficult time grasping the idea that their friendship can ever be repaired. Sure, they CAN be friends again, in time. But the way I see it, any level of trust was lost when Quinn hit Brad in the school, and Brad hasn't been of any real help is restoring that trust lately, what with the water incident and his attitude lately.

 

As far as self-serving goes, Quinn is as guilty of that as Marissa is. The night Brad let it slip to Bree that Quinn was gay, Quinn was more concerned with whether or not she would tell their mother than trying to get her to not hate him, which was also a concern for him. He has spent a large part of the story focused on himself, and what the people around him think of him now. Slowly but surely, he getting his head out of his ass.

 

 

It seems a lot of people are viewing Marissa as an antagonist in this story, but after what Lucy just said about her it makes me think she could be the only way the Three Muskateers can ever make a comeback, being the only one with some form of a sensible head on her shoulders, as Quinn and Brad sure aren't taking the initiative to repair the relationship, each having been shot down at least once by the other due to a "wrong place wrong time" scenario (I can only imagine what was going on in Marissa's head when she saw Trina in Quinns house, lol)

[Conner]

Lucy,

 

You put a very positive spin on Marissa's behaviour. I, for one, simply can't go there based on what has happened to date. Quinn doesn't trust her. He has more than ample reason.

 

Frankly, as a reader, I cannot envision a conclusion to this story with Marissa as any sort of heroine - not even remotely. At best, she may redeem herself. That would require that she allow herself to become vulnerable. For example, if she were to openly apologize to Trinia for outing her and make amends for that, I would be pleased for Quinn to embrace her as a friend.

 

Neither do I see Quinn as the hero of his own story. I see him as both protaganist and antaganist. For Quinn, a happy ending is simply survival - that would include self-acceptance and hanging on to the people he cares about deeply, Jude, Bree, his mom and Brad.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[Rocketcnj]

I look at the whole story as a "Coming Out" Story. I feel Quinn will keep some friends and lose some friends. To me, on a personal note, that is what happened. As I said on about too many posts, when I came out to family and friends, I received both positive and negative reaction and people I thought would be there for me weren't and people I expected to react negatively were simply wonderful and amazing.

 

To me, the story is Quinn's...and his coming out and at the same time coming of age and coming to terms with himself and being Gay. In the end, he will form new bonds as he seems to with Taylor and Trina, who are also Gay (it becomes a freedom/freeing up process of actually being friends with Gay people and not caring if other straight people suspect that you too must be Gay..after a while one doesn't care what other people think in that regard. That seems to be happening with Quinn. I feel that is a good thing and its healthy.)

 

I also find it wonderful that Bree has been a good friend and still his close sister/best pal kind of thing. Brad may know what to do or how to feel or for lack of a better word act/react to accepting his best friend as being Gay. So, maybe he is looking to "bossy" Marissa (she seemed to be the pied piper of them as they grew up together...) for guidance. As far as Brad and Quinn go, I feel that they will drift apart as they enter two different worlds..that is not a bad thing..it happens...and if it does, I feel they will still have fond memories of their child hood but realize that maybe they are two different worlds and thus just don't have much in common......or maybe there may be some acceptance of each other (yes, Quinn often reacts and can get stubborn...um, qualities, I recognize in myself and then friends (i.e. Jude and Bree help him see a different perspective and he comes around....I feel we all can get that way....I call them blockhead moments...but hey, human nonetheless...then eventually Quinn processes events and comes around and grows through them..

 

I wish Quinn had confided more in his counselor at school and he had a chance but took the I don't want to make things worse for Jude approach..which, is for once Quinn thinking about someone other then himself and how he will be perceived as the Gay kid..and it was nice to see that he was putting the welfare of his boyfriend first

 

but I thought that maybe if Quinn trusted his instincts more he could see that Mr. Johns has helped him a lot and maybe he could help Quinn figure out what to do next..i.e. helping Jude with his Mom etc and indeed, saying ok, now that he and his sister are close and worked things through how can he come out to his Mom and work on those issues and some people never come out to their parents..but hey, that can take a lifetime for some of us and some of us never come out to all or any family members..so I don't fault Quinn for not turning to Mr. Johns at this point)

 

I am not sure what Marissa's motivations are. That is the one link I haven't been able to figure out for lack of a better word. But, I hope she in her own way wants to be friends with Quinn and is trying...I just don't have much to go on here..all of a sudden she seems to have done a complete reversal...her image is the school numero uno and why would she want to be seen with her former Gay boyfriend vs. she is cool enough that she doesn't care so she can be accepting and tell people get over themselves and learn some acceptance..but considering she freaked over being thought of as Gay herself, which is how this story began, I don't know what to think...it just leaves my brain spinning..

 

Beyond that, I am hoping that Quinn can learn, and he is starting to, being comfortable in his own skin as a Gay Man, and finding that he can be friends with Brad and other straights and also be cool to be seen with and know that Taylor and Trina are his friends....that there are Gay friendly allies and sometimes there is acceptance amongst friends and family and sometimes not and it has to do with their issues/not yours (heck that can take years to figure out and so all in all Quinn is just beginning in this process and I feel when he processes events he finds the right thing to do and does it...he has been amazing at certain points and has had clarity and been doing well...i.e. telling Jude it doesn't matter about being Gay..he just is...so that's that..remember the scene in Jude's apartment..it was very endearing and a real growth moment for Quinn)

 

I don't know what his Mom knows or doesn't know...I guess that is for the next chapter (or if there are more then one more) but I am bad at predicting....so I will stay tuned.

 

What I hope happens for Quinn is he grows more comfortable with whom he is....and self acceptance helps he guide himself in life and from there as he is comfortable in his own being as a Gay Man he then can grow, have Gay and Straight friends and be a good friend to himself and to those he love....and get more out of his thinking mode and when he stops thinking he is more caring, giving, loving and is more real and human....and that is what matters most.....and he is getting there...and I am proud of him for that....he has come far and has far to go...but is evovling....it will be interesting what he becomes during the process and what happens with those around him...

 

all in all, I found the chapter both amazing and in parts different (i.e. Marissa, I still don't what to think) and Mrs. Moore.....what is she up to and does she know or feel Quinn is Gay...I don't think so but I could be so wrong on that one..so I don't want to guess.

 

then well, it was hot to see Quinn and Jude make hot love...and I still chuckle that Jude was sent to Quinn's room to prevent teenage sex...irony at work and I loved the line about hugging their pillows and thinking it was each other..I found that very sweet and romantic....and cute:)

 

thanks for reading my ramblings and long post of various thoughts..I have a ton on this chapter...and yeah, I still don't know what to make of Marissa...but I will only hope that works it way out....same with Brad..I want to know what happens at the train tracks....what did Mrs. Moore do now and how that turned out for Jude and of course means for Quinn too....butterflies of angst and also hopeful for good things all happening in my stomach on that note.

 

 

Michael

Edited September 27, 2005 by Rocketcnj

[Bao]

do you talk alot in irl

[rknapp]

do you talk alot in irl

 

haha i almost burst out laughing seeing that

 

Rocket you set yourself up for that one... lmao