Tipdin Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I am not sure why you thought this would put you in the line of fire. It seems to me that you are saying that while you are attracted to specific types, what someone looks like or how "feminine" or "masculine" they are, despite gender, has no bearing on your friendship with them - its seems you can respect them either way. That is not the impression being given by others - and that what can be seen as under "attack" in this thread. Thank you.
Amelia Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 When I asked about if ANDROGYNY is attractive, it was really about personal preference. But this led to much wider discussion about cultural and social limits of accepting differency. That's totally fine. I'm glad that this discussion has deepened from it's original, light hearted purpose. Coming back to the attractivity issue. To me the single most appealing thing in a person is his/her open mindedness. And kindness to other peoples feelings. And sensitivity. Those things have nothing to do with gender, sexuality or even masculinity or femininity. ( Amelia, I find you really attractive ) Thank you.
TetRefine Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Let me make this very clear. I would discriminate or actively seek to them out to make their life harder. All I was saying is that I would not associate with them because they are not my type of person.
Amelia Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Let me make this very clear. I would discriminate or actively seek to them out to make their life harder. All I was saying is that I would not associate with them because they are not my type of person. I am going to assume that there were typos in this response.
Amelia Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) And yes, for all you culturally sensitive, politically correct people, I consider people who act like a traditional man a real man. Effeminacy was never considered a favorable trait among men. If they wanna act like women and do all this stuff, then fine, they have every right to do so. But we as gay people should not expect to be welcomed with open arms into mainstream society if we embrace and publicize this kind of stuff. Why shouldn't a person not expect to be welcomed with open arms because they are different from your ideal? I am well aware that yours is not a unique attitude, I would just like to challenge you to expand your horizons. I realize that many are offended by references to their youth, I myself have been called too young to understand by my elders on this site (though I realize that my rapidly approaching 30th year probably seems as old to you as it does to me right now), but I can't help but want to see a more open minded and accepting younger generation. Hopefully you realize how close minded your views seem, and how much they parallel bigots opinions of your own sexuality. While I don't expect you to go and become best friends with the next effeminate male or butch woman you meet, I want to push you enough outside your comfort zone to question your current views. Edited January 10, 2011 by Amelia
Zolia Lily Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 LOL DragonMando i think i love you :D :D With all the seriousness starting to happen in this thread, I'm almost tempted to put on a dress and start parading pictures myself... ...but I won't, because I prefer everyone's brains to not be dribbling out their ears from the horror. Of course, if I did side-by-sides of myself as me and myself all femmed up, the brains would be flat out going supernova XD Because I'm naturally androgynous enough to pass decently as either with very little effort.
Nephylim Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 LOL DragonMando i think i love you :D :D I second that
Marzipan Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 I second that The poor boy is gonna run screaming with his high heels, when all his GA-groupies gather up! :lmao: Who else is on, Zolia Lily, Neph, anyone else?
Caedus Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It's kind of fascinating (and bit ironic) that people aren't more open minded about this type of stuff. The nerd in me is excited because this may show how deep humans internalize our social and cultural programming. *salivates* Makes you wonder how open minded we would be if you were completely straight or not exposed to this enviornment.. I don't particularly find the androgynous look attractive, but it wouldn't put me off from being friends with one, I enjoy peoples minds and personalities more than looks and I'm not in HS so I don't really care what people think, plus the great thing about college is that most people don't care.
TetRefine Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I am going to assume that there were typos in this response. Yes, that was a typo.
TetRefine Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Why shouldn't a person not expect to be welcomed with open arms because they are different from your ideal? I am well aware that yours is not a unique attitude, I would just like to challenge you to expand your horizons. I realize that many are offended by references to their youth, I myself have been called too young to understand by my elders on this site (though I realize that my rapidly approaching 30th year probably seems as old to you as it does to me right now), but I can't help but want to see a more open minded and accepting younger generation. Hopefully you realize how close minded your views seem, and how much they parallel bigots opinions of your own sexuality. While I don't expect you to go and become best friends with the next effeminate male or butch woman you meet, I want to push you enough outside your comfort zone to question your current views. Whether we like it or not, we can never be fully accepted unless we can be perceived as normal and blending in with mainstream society. Thats just how it works. It is fair. No, but we have to adapt. Why do you think people like these are pushed to the fringe and get weird looks? Because people just can't fathom their radical differences. Eventually over time they will probably be accepted, but for now its just the way it is. Only time can change that.
Stargazer Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 The poor boy is gonna run screaming with his high heels, when all his GA-groupies gather up! :lmao: Who else is on, Zolia Lily, Neph, anyone else? I wanna see these pics! lol
Popular Post Arpeggio Posted January 10, 2011 Popular Post Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Whether we like it or not, we can never be fully accepted unless we can be perceived as normal and blending in with mainstream society. Thats just how it works. It is fair. No, but we have to adapt. Why do you think people like these are pushed to the fringe and get weird looks? Because people just can't fathom their radical differences. Eventually over time they will probably be accepted, but for now its just the way it is. Only time can change that. People won't learn to accept anything if anyone different hides their difference. That's like telling someone "It's okay to be a bright red, but everyone else is green. Eventually they will learn to accept you, but until then you should just paint yourself green and try to fit in." Personally I'd rather be me and not accepted than hide any part of me that makes me who I am. I don't need anyone's acceptance, just the rights I deserve. If someone doesn't find me attractive because I look effeminate, that's fine, but I don't feel the need to change myself for it. Edited January 10, 2011 by Arpeggio 7
Amelia Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 but for now its just the way it is. Only time can change that. Time won't change anything if people are unwilling to broaden their outlook. If everyone needed to be "normal" to be accepted, we'd have a pretty F'ed up world. 1
Amelia Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Yes, that was a typo. I want to stick my tongue back out at you, but I can't find that smiley! So, let it be known that I am sticking my tongue out at you.
DragonMando Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 O_o people actually WANT me to cross-dress now? Gawd I think my mind broke. Also, seconding Lacey. I'd much rather be me and never be accepted than to give up who I am to fit in--because I'd fail at it anyway. Been there, done that, it wasn't pretty. Besides, whatever happened to the phrase "rules are meant to be broken"? 1
JamesSavik Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Androgyny: Is it attractive to you? Most of the time it isn't. I like Manly Men who do Manly things. That's Pat sort of androgyny doesn't appeal to me at all. The young man who is so pretty he could be a girl, has long hair- I'm too old for them anyway. But... once upon a time, I'd would have hit that.
TetRefine Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 People won't learn to accept anything if anyone different hides their difference. That's like telling someone "It's okay to be a bright red, but everyone else is green. Eventually they will learn to accept you, but until then you should just paint yourself green and try to fit in." Personally I'd rather be me and not accepted than hide any part of me that makes me who I am. I don't need anyone's acceptance, just the rights I deserve. If someone doesn't find me attractive because I look effeminate, that's fine, but I don't feel the need to change myself for it. Thats absolutely fine. You have every right to do that. But like you said, don't expect to be accepted into mainstream society if you do. That was my point. Not hiding who you were, but choosing between being yourself and being accepted into mainstream society if you were radically different.
Stargazer Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 O_o people actually WANT me to cross-dress now? Gawd I think my mind broke. Well, yeah, if you look THAT good! 1
Camilo Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Reverting back to the OP, Andrej Pejic is the new face for Marc Jacobs' spring campaign! Apparently, his androgyny is the new trend for designers. Hehe and he's very cute
Camilo Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Oh, and also. Would this be considered androgyny or gender expression? He's awesome, btw!
DragonMando Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Thats absolutely fine. You have every right to do that. But like you said, don't expect to be accepted into mainstream society if you do. That was my point. Not hiding who you were, but choosing between being yourself and being accepted into mainstream society if you were radically different. With what of mainstream society I've seen, I wouldn't want to be accepted into it. Mainstream society, according to what I've experienced, is full of bigots, average intelligence, no imagination, no drive, no personality, and very little hope for change. Of course, I grew up outside of the mainstream, so I've only seen it from the outside looking in. There was a time when I tried to be normal and fit in, hoping to slip into some niche within this mainstream, but the attitude was so full of hate and backstabbing even within social groups that I realized that it wasn't for me. It was painful to look at men and women that were supposedly friends stealing lovers from each other because someone bought the same shirt as the other. There is no loyalty nor love there that I have seen. So yeah, I'm totally fine without being accepted. But someday I'd like to see people like me accepted--which will never happen if no one stands up to it and takes the flak.
Y_B Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 DM, what you experienced is what you have experienced. You can't objectively speak for mainstream life out of your own negativity. I don't know how mainstream I am but I don't consciously make the effort the either fit in or be unique. I am me and I've liked what society has to offer just fine. We are given choices in life, and how we decide on things inevitably will change how our lives play out. Do what you want to do and be what you want to be, but live with the consequences, positive or negative. Know that society has a sense of normality and plays by it. Whether or not you insist on rebelling against it is not right nor wrong in an objective manner. However, because you live in society and operates within it's boundaries, it is wise to sometimes reassess what is worth it and what is not....and I'm not talking about a high school level of popularity but substantial matters like being able to advance in your career smoothly or just find and hold a job.
DragonMando Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Notice, I did say from my experience and what I had seen, not what it was for everyone. Yes, there are some things which I do realize I have no choice but to hold back on--such as the zillion piercings I drool over wishing I could have, as well as some of the tats--but those are outward things that I have control over. What I'm meaning are intrinsic things, such as personality. I have very little control over such things as the fact that I just plain don't get most jokes, just as I have little or no control over the fact that no matter how many dance lessons I attend, I have the worst two left feet on the planet. Or that I have a natural ability to draw. Those are basic things that should not and cannot be suppressed in order to fit in. However, some things can and should be controlled, such as violent tendencies and inappropriate flirtation. If it really gets to the point, though, that everyone has to be a clone of everyone else, that's something I want no part in. I like being the slightly geeky guy with a sketchpad everywhere he goes. I apologize for not making myself clear.
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