Odyssey

[Westie]

BTW, thanks for the info on the diminished capacity Westie.

Mark, been thinking about it. We've never seen anyone killed in an action that was aloft. Seems to me that look outs and seaman aloft would be in real danger if both the Spanish and French aim high.

 

Don't forget that the vast majority of the "action" and characterisation takes place at officer level.... Being aloft is no place for an officer in normal times, and definitely not when being cleared for action.  I would suggest these injuries are among the nameless wounded that we hear of after each battle sequence.

[Mark Arbour]

Don't forget that the vast majority of the "action" and characterisation takes place at officer level.... Being aloft is no place for an officer in normal times, and definitely not when being cleared for action.  I would suggest these injuries are among the nameless wounded that we hear of after each battle sequence.

 

What he said.

[ricky]

ya, but I was thinking that raining blood or having an upper torso fall in front of you on the deck MIGHT be significant enough to recognize. Languid shot sounds quite unpleasant.And you a;ways hear about blood flowing from the scuppers but you never hear about the red stained sheets or the errant hand falling from the folds when they loose the sheets. And let's face it, bringing it down to top sails means they are trying to get to deck when shit starts flying. And you've got look outs up there during battle watching for other ships.

 

I'm just saying that the thought of disposable people bothers me. They're worth a mention. Although doing so might move this from a pg13 to an R rating. (PG-13 = pretty good if you're 13 and getting off on it.)

[JimCarter]

ya, but I was thinking that raining blood or having an upper torso fall in front of you on the deck MIGHT be significant enough to recognize. Languid shot sounds quite unpleasant.And you a;ways hear about blood flowing from the scuppers but you never hear about the red stained sheets or the errant hand falling from the folds when they loose the sheets. And let's face it, bringing it down to top sails means they are trying to get to deck when shit starts flying. And you've got look outs up there during battle watching for other ships.

 

I'm just saying that the thought of disposable people bothers me. They're worth a mention. Although doing so might move this from a pg13 to an R rating. (PG-13 = pretty good if you're 13 and getting off on it.)

 

Ricky, I don't disagree with you very often, but is one of those times I do.  I don't see blood and guts adding a quality to this story that makes everyone want to read it and can't wait for the next installment.  Sure we know it is battle and there is blood and guts, but we don't have to have it described to make the battle seem real.  I for one, wouldn't want to see this story turned into a slasher film.

 

I think the level of detail Mark includes in his battles seems about perfect to me.  Realistic enough that I get a real sense of the dangers and destruction that Iron flying through the air and splinters filling the air is plenty for me.  That is what makes this story and the others of the series so exciting to read.

[ricky]

Ricky, I don't disagree with you very often, but is one of those times I do.  I don't see blood and guts adding a quality to this story that makes everyone want to read it and can't wait for the next installment.  Sure we know it is battle and there is blood and guts, but we don't have to have it described to make the battle seem real.  I for one, wouldn't want to see this story turned into a slasher film.

 

I think the level of detail Mark includes in his battles seems about perfect to me.  Realistic enough that I get a real sense of the dangers and destruction that Iron flying through the air and splinters filling the air is plenty for me.  That is what makes this story and the others of the series so exciting to read.

OH, I agree completely, don't misunderstand my question's intentions. I wouldn't want it turned into anything else either. It was more a curiosity than anything else. I mean, there have been mentions of other graphic events during battles and used to show his stolid emotional control. Such as, a cannon ball decapitating a seaman right in front of him. I was just wondering why we never heard mention of a death or injury in the rigging because it surely  must have happened. These guys were always going up to try and repair rigging damaged during battle before it makes the rest fall apart. It had just occurred to me that they were still firing up there and these guys had to be absolutely fearless to do that when you know that broadsides are focused on where you are headed.

[Westie]

OH, I agree completely, don't misunderstand my question's intentions. I wouldn't want it turned into anything else either. It was more a curiosity than anything else. I mean, there have been mentions of other graphic events during battles and used to show his stolid emotional control. Such as, a cannon ball decapitating a seaman right in front of him. I was just wondering why we never heard mention of a death or injury in the rigging because it surely  must have happened. These guys were always going up to try and repair rigging damaged during battle before it makes the rest fall apart. It had just occurred to me that they were still firing up there and these guys had to be absolutely fearless to do that when you know that broadsides are focused on where you are headed.

 

It's harsh, but in the culture of the navy at the time, an officer would scarcely notice the dead about them.  Moreover though, I don't think death in the rigging was as common as you might think.  Cannon shots were fired into the body of the ship for maximum impact.  When a ship was "de-masted" it wasn't because it was hit at the top, but at the base.  Firing into the rigging was a waste of cannon.  To do it with rifles required a ship to be quite close, and would inevitably cause the sails to catch fire - not something you want to happen when you're boarding a vessel.

 

While a bad shot might hit the rigging, I don't think it was common to aim there,

[Mark Arbour]

It's harsh, but in the culture of the navy at the time, an officer would scarcely notice the dead about them.  Moreover though, I don't think death in the rigging was as common as you might think.  Cannon shots were fired into the body of the ship for maximum impact.  When a ship was "de-masted" it wasn't because it was hit at the top, but at the base.  Firing into the rigging was a waste of cannon.  To do it with rifles required a ship to be quite close, and would inevitably cause the sails to catch fire - not something you want to happen when you're boarding a vessel.

 

While a bad shot might hit the rigging, I don't think it was common to aim there,

 

Actually, firing on the uproll was the preferred French (and Spanish) strategy, with the assumption that if you immobilize a ship it is then at your mercy.  How well that worked out is illustrated by the battle history between the Royal Navy and their Franco-Spanish adversaries.     But you make an excellent point, in that once the ships were at close range, it was in essence a slug fest, where fire was predominantly directed into the enemy ship's hull.  That's why rate of fire was so important, something most Royal Navy ships excelled at. 

 

You raised another good point, in that there weren't many men in the rigging during a battle.  Ships would reduce to "fighting sail", generally topsails only, once battle had been joined.  That meant they didn't need men aloft and could focus the entire crew on fighting the ship.  The only people aloft would most likely be snipers, and certainly there wouldn't be officers in the tops.  In addition, they would have rigged slings across the deck to protect themselves from falling spars (partially effective) and gruesomely, falling bodies.

[ricky]

Actually, firing on the uproll was the preferred French (and Spanish) strategy, with the assumption that if you immobilize a ship it is then at your mercy.  How well that worked out is illustrated by the battle history between the Royal Navy and their Franco-Spanish adversaries.     But you make an excellent point, in that once the ships were at close range, it was in essence a slug fest, where fire was predominantly directed into the enemy ship's hull.  That's why rate of fire was so important, something most Royal Navy ships excelled at. 

 

You raised another good point, in that there weren't many men in the rigging during a battle.  Ships would reduce to "fighting sail", generally topsails only, once battle had been joined.  That meant they didn't need men aloft and could focus the entire crew on fighting the ship.  The only people aloft would most likely be snipers, and certainly there wouldn't be officers in the tops.  In addition, they would have rigged slings across the deck to protect themselves from falling spars (partially effective) and gruesomely, falling bodies.

You've mentioned look outs while still in the heat of battle. An example would be when fighting Sabino in St Vincent, about ch 14 when they were fully engaged and the lookouts sighted the San Trindad and two friggets. Also when rescuing Traver's men when the french ship blew up. Was that poetic license or would there have been look outs in the tops?

 

I also realized that actions would have taken time when repositioning themselves, it might have taken as much as an hour or two to swing about for another pass depending on winds and seas of course. So the actions would not always take the 20 minutes or so to strike. I mean, even at top sails, they're still moving and that can't be stopped without calling the watch to  strike sail all together.

 

And langridge shot was just metal junk used before proper canister shot so it could be anything but chain shot would stretch out in length presumably to try and be wide enough to catch and wrap around masts or to catch rigging and pull it down or snap it off. And as such would cover a wider arc than dodging a ball approximately 6-8 inches in diameter depending on the weight of the cannon launching it.

 

I DID find this online and thought it was good to share:

Bar, Chain and Expanding Shot

There were innumerable examples of these projectiles. All were designed to damage ships' rigging, small boats or any unfortunate sailor who happened to get in the way. They date from the 17^th century.

Bar Shot

Chain Shot

Expanding Shot

Expanding Shot 17th century shot, designed to damage ships' rigging, small boats, or any unfortunate ssailor who happened to get in the way.

 

http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/gun/smooth4.htm

 

 

Sorry about all the questions, I'm just trying to get a more realistic blow by blow idea of a real battle at sea in one of these ships. It's become a fascination for me.

[ricky]

You're a tease Mark. I saw your tickler and thought you already posted your next chapter only to find out it was a chapter update. lol

[Mark Arbour]

You're a tease Mark. I saw your tickler and thought you already posted your next chapter only to find out it was a chapter update. lol

 

Yep, and it's your fault.  Langridge was wrong, so I fixed it.

[ricky]

That's alright, I love you too.

[ricky]

Ok, I just reread 44. The San Bernadino Straits put them less than 500 miles from Amboyna. They should be there "JUST" after Granger and Chartley take off on their trek. I'm assuming that Bertie will give Calvert orders to make sale to England OR perhaps to the Nile to see if they were able to stop Maidstone. I expect that Calvert will freak at the news and raise every bit of canvas day and night to try and catch them.

 

It's going to be an interesting chapter. I wonder what Arab aristocrat Granger will endear himself to along the way. Perhaps rescuing a sheik's first born son from a runaway camel?

  OH, I'm sorry Mark, did I give anything away?

 

[JimCarter]

Although not as slow as she once was,  Calvert's ship is still considerably slower than Humphrey's  ship.  I don't think there is enough sail around that would let Calvert catch up.  I'm fairly sure that I remember George left orders for Calvert, so I'm sure he will be on his way back to England as soon as he re-provisions.

 

As far as Granger's trek  overland, I think it more likely as to which enemy or new enemy he makes.  Isn't he going through a good deal of Ottoman Empire?  I probably should have tried to check this, but I thought it would be more fun to just throw something out into the forum and let everyone tell me how stupid my comment is.  Snide way of saying too lazy to do the research myself.

[Mark Arbour]

Although not as slow as she once was,  Calvert's ship is still considerably slower than Humphrey's  ship.  I don't think there is enough sail around that would let Calvert catch up.  I'm fairly sure that I remember George left orders for Calvert, so I'm sure he will be on his way back to England as soon as he re-provisions.

 

As far as Granger's trek  overland, I think it more likely as to which enemy or new enemy he makes.  Isn't he going through a good deal of Ottoman Empire?  I probably should have tried to check this, but I thought it would be more fun to just throw something out into the forum and let everyone tell me how stupid my comment is.  Snide way of saying too lazy to do the research myself.

 

I would be happy to tell you how stupid you are...if only you would oblige me by being stupid.  I'll let you know when that happens.

 

You are correct in that Granger left orders for Calvert, not Bertie, and one would assume that those orders tell him to sail for England with all due haste.  And while Bacchante is considerably faster than Santa Clarita, and she has a head start, there is no accounting for the vagaries of weather.  Bacchante could end up becalmed for weeks while Santa Clarita rushes toward her. 

[Miles Long]

You are correct in that Granger left orders for Calvert, not Bertie, and one would assume that those orders tell him to sail for England with all due haste.  And while Bacchante is considerably faster than Santa Clarita, and she has a head start, there is no accounting for the vagaries of weather.  Bacchante could end up becalmed for weeks while Santa Clarita rushes toward her. 

 

Less conjecture, more story!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please .

[Mark Arbour]

Less conjecture, more story!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please .

 

OK 

[Miles Long]

Yay!

 

THANK YOU!

[ricky]

WAIT! If you post it now, you'll be breaking with convention! You can't post it until I'm 30 seconds away from being engaged in an activity that will preclude my reading it for an additional 8 hours, thus amplifying my pain and torture.

[Mark Arbour]

WAIT! If you post it now, you'll be breaking with convention! You can't post it until I'm 30 seconds away from being engaged in an activity that will preclude my reading it for an additional 8 hours, thus amplifying my pain and torture.

 

Take five Viagra.  That should give you a painful erection and send you to the hospital.  That should be good for 8 hours.

[ricky]

Take five Viagra.  That should give you a painful erection and send you to the hospital.  That should be good for 8 hours.

Shoot! I took them with an iron supplement and a viagra got stuck in my throat. Now I've got a stiff neck and I tend to point north!

[Miles Long]

Shoot! I took them with an iron supplement and a viagra got stuck in my throat. Now I've got a stiff neck and I tend to point north!

 

How fortunate I lost my compass and I was planning to go hiking.

[Mark Arbour]

How fortunate I lost my compass and I was planning to go hiking.

 

Just take Ricky with you! 

[ricky]

How fortunate I lost my compass and I was planning to go hiking.

 

Just take Ricky with you! 

Can I Cum too? Please ohpleaseohplease?

[Miles Long]

Can I Cum too? Please ohpleaseohplease?

 

It really depends on your own ability to navigate difficult terrain.

[ricky]

It really depends on your own ability to navigate difficult terrain.

No problem, I have a firm grip.