Gymnastics - UNNECESSARILY cruel?

[Zombie]

I was watching men's gymnastics the other day *hmmm, wonders if maybe all those super-buff male bodies, muscles all pumped, groaning and grunting had something to do with it?*

 

Anyway, there I was, enjoying it. Then I noticed all the straps and bandages the guys had on (modern HD tellys show everything ). And when a gymnast landed awkwardly it was obvious it hurt. Then I realized maybe some of those grunts and groans might be pain. And then I stopped enjoying it.

 

I've just had a look around on Google. Seems there's a particular problem with "stick" landings. Here are just a couple of bits I found:

 

Biomechanics of Sport and Exercise (2nd ed 2005), Peter McGinnis

"Research funded in part by the United States Olympic Committee and the United States Gymnastic Association is concerned with the impact forces gymnasts experience when landing from stunts and what strategies they use to reduce these forces (cited 1991, 1993, 1994). Judges award higher points to gymnasts who "stick" their landings. But such landings may involve greater and more dangerous forces. These forces are the cause of overuse injuries in many gymnasts. A landing in which the gymnast flexes the knees, hips and ankles may reduce these impact forces but it also results in a lower score."

http://books.google.... injury&f=false

 

This book also went on to to say:

"One outcome of this research has been new rules allowing for landing strategies that reduce these impact forces without penalty to the gymnast's score"

 

BUT it does not appear to be true that using different landing strategies to avoid the damaging stick landing will not affect the scoring:

 

Dummies.com - Men's Gymnastics Events in the 2012 Summer Olympics

"Gymnasts display various grips on the bar and perform giant swings over the bar. All are judged on form and dismount. It's important for gymnasts to keep their bodies straight and their toes pointed during routines and to stick the landings."

"Sticking the landing means landing on both feet together without taking any extra steps. Any steps or partial steps incur deductions."

"Sticking the landing is very important in the scoring of a still rings routine. Dismounts usually involve some sort of back flip or full-body twist, and landing on both feet together without taking an extra step is particularly difficult. Scoring deductions are given for bad form, ring movement, falls, useless swings, bad dismounts or landings, and timing errors."

"Body position is maintained while "popping" the vaulting platform. The gymnast completes multiple twists and somersaults in the air before landing on the far side of the vault. The difficulty of the flips, the strength exhibited, and the ability to stick the landing affect scoring."

"Dismount is just a fancy way of saying getting off the equipment. However, the style and difficulty of the flipping, twisting, or body motion the gymnast completes in midair (as well as that sticky landing) affect the start value and deductions awarded."

http://www.dummies.c...r-olympics.html

 

coachesinfo.com - article seems to date from 2010 (most recent citation)

"Strategy adjustments accommodating inherent physical profiles were found to be essential in ensuring effective load attenuation but were acknowledged as potentially incompatible with current constraints in gymnastic scoring systems."

http://www.coachesin...ding&Itemid=295

 

OK, I know all sports requiring extreme physical performance by top athletes at the highest level have the potential to cause injury - maybe serious long term injuries. But the rules for getting high scores in gymnastics seem to require the gymnasts to land with their legs together and more or less straight. If I wanted to formulate a rule to cause maximum damage to a super fit athlete ... that's the rule and scoring framework I would introduce. And it doesn't give me pleasure to see top athletes providing an "entertainment" that seems designed to cause them physical injury.

 

But what do you think?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Zombie

[Bill W]

Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated incident. Even back in high school, I thought that what they were requiring for the landings went counter to what we'd learned in other sports. Would you go for a rebound in basketball or make a leaping catch in baseball or football and then come down with your legs stiff? Not unless you wanted to end up in a cast. Look at how many of those athletes ended up with permanent problems in later life because of that.

 

I remember playing football, getting my bell rung (which today might be classified as a mild concussion) and told to shake it off. We were coached to play through pain and keep fighting, but I think we're learning today that wasn't the best advice. I think a lot of tried and true sport practices from the past need to be re-analyzed and adjustments made to the way things are done, otherwise we are going to put future generations at risk.

[Zombie]

I think a lot of tried and true sport practices from the past need to be re-analyzed and adjustments made to the way things are done, otherwise we are going to put future generations at risk.

 

Yep. But this is 2012, Bill. We have sports science, sports medicine and so much more. And still these (often a cabal of old men - look at FIFA - and words fail me sometimes to describe adequately my view of them) "sports regulators" fail to turn their attention to basic welfare of the sportsmen and women they regulate. Maybe too busy focusing on more important stuff - like doing TV deals with Murdoch or worse. But I digress. And this is not meant to be political

[hh5]

Well skipping the parents that make kids do it

There are some that are doing it ... and its part of their fun ...

Its really extreme punishment ... but gosh we can only hope that coaches can teach the sport to be safer

 

 

yaa its pretty painful ... google gymnastic pain

there is a lot of painful ooops

 

but hey its an Olympic sport remember Jim McCays motto "The thrill of victory for some, the agony of defeat for others."

 

Mary Lou Retton had hip replacement

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oh there is video that is unnecessarily cruel ... to the viewer ... google Justin Bieber Gymnastics Routine

Edited June 19, 2012 by hh5

[Yettie One]

I think that there are sports right thoughout the spectrum of modern entertainment that are damaging to the men and woman that participate. I can only speak for a sport with which I was once associated, rugby.

 

Well known as a rough and tumble game, it is accepted that men will crash into each other in what would off the field rightly be considered to be assault by the police and the courts.

 

Hundreds of rugby players are injured each year, some will carry those injuries far into their life. I had my knee dislocated in a rough tackle, and to this day it will 'pop' when climbing stairs or if I spin around too fast.

 

I understand that tennis can cause great pain long term in the joints of the arm where the repetitive action of swinging for the ball causes damage to the ligaments within the elbow.

 

Downhill skiers often experience knee and hip problems in later life. Volleyball players can have similar difficulties with their knees and elbows from impact injuries sustained over a course of time from diving onto hard surfaces to return the ball.

 

That is without even considering the risks associated with intensely physical contact sports like boxing, karate or judo.

 

According to www.sprotssafety.org more than 3.5 million children aged 14 and below receive treatment for sports injuries each year in the US alone. You do have to wonder how many of those will experience ongoing injury or difficulty in later life as a result.

 

I think that when you become serious about a sport, you begin to realise and appreciate the risks associated with the sport, and accept that risk as part of the desire to push yourself to the limit, to achieve, to stand out from the rest, to win. That drive within us allows us to face the risks, accept the pain of performance, and learn to deal with the bitterness of defeat. If you look beyond the risk, and admire the personal drive of each individual sports man and women then you can draw enjoyment from their efforts and performance.

[Krista]

I played basketball and volleyball and did some competitive cheer since I had a gymnastics background as a kid...became too tall for that though, so I moved on. Gymnastics is all about form. Any little hesitation, break in form will be deducted from the score. It is judged and meant to be hard, just like figure skating. The human body isn't really made to absorb all the shock we put them through in sports. That is why so many football players end up with concussions, even while they're wearing the helmet.

 

In basketball, I had two ACL ligament tears, both knees. I hurt my hip in gymnastics and my knee again in Volleyball. My knees bother me when I'm extremely active or if I have to be on them all day. My hip doesn't bother me at all, but that doesn't mean it won't when I get older.

 

We are our own demise though... we create the moves.. the judges then have to adhere to them and gauge them on a scale of difficulty. When the competition is too closely matched, then someone will create a new stunt or a new technique that is more intricate and difficult... trying to get ahead. The judges see the wow factor and the difficulty of the maneuver and reward it. That is why you hear.. "This vault has a base start value of a 7.0." That means the stunt has been done a lot, has been judged, and that is what is agreed upon. The next vaulter could have one with a base start value of 9.5.. even if they landed it a little awkwardly and with a bit of strain on their body... their score will likely be higher than the 7.0 that was easier and landed perfectly.

 

And I wouldn't let the moaning and groaning scare you too much, a lot of athletes do it. Some even do it for timing.. and some do it because they're trying to recreate their perfect scenario every time and if that includes a grunt, then they grunt. No different than Michael Phelps swinging his arms like a giant bird before they're called to start or a baseball batter's batting box routine.. you will notice that they do the exact same thing every time they prepare to bat or swim.

[Benji]

................ I was in gymnastics all through high school and "Sticking the landing means landing on both feet together without taking any extra steps. Any steps or partial steps incur deductions." That is true

 

So you have to bend your legs to help adsorb the shock, then straighten. Anyone that tried to stick the landing straight legged and footed was a fool, you could shatter a knee, tear cartilage and end a career.

[hh5]

Edward Upcott who is like a 5 ft 2in acrobatic gymnast ... he was the stunt double in Hugo

check youtube "Spelbound - Britain's Got Talent 2010 - The Final (itv.com/talent)"

 

He is dependent on one or two of his team mates to be able to toss him across the room in hopes his catchers will do their job

 

he stated how painful doing gymnastics is when he's on break. He's been doing it for seven years ..

he 20 and he's won a lot of metals in his unrecognized Olympic Type Sport

 

He is young and can do anything until one day perhaps a bad fall might happen

that would compound the punishment of the sport on his body

 

 

I think this is perhaps why the Olympics doesn't consider it a sport in its games ...

its too dangerous especially with Olympic Pressure competing in front of a huge audience

 

even though they hold Olympic like games of their own ...

there isn't a crowed like the Olympic's ... they're tested on standard requirements just like the Olympics

Its all standard routines ... but is done in singles or doubles not large groups

 

He is more known in his SpellBound performances ... its a large group performing their routines all at once

its an amazing show ... Some of the routines aren't part of their Olympic type games

when you observe the routines their games performance you can ID which is new and which is routine

 

If you ever watched Chinese or Russian acrobatic performances they are unlike standard Olympic routines

It makes it very daring and amazing when it doesn't look like an Olympic Type Stunt

 

I guess all of them are dependent on whirlpool hot tubs and sports medicine to keep them going

 

The question is at what age will he quit competing ... and will he be in a lot of pain or not...

will he take up a career in coaching or break away from sports entirely

[Zombie]

Thanks for the responses, and sorry to hear about your injuries Krista . Benji, you said "Anyone that tried to stick the landing straight legged and footed was a fool, you could shatter a knee, tear cartilage and end a career" but in the Mens' Floor Exercise there's a routine where the gymnast somersaults, does a stick landing, bounces up and continues across the floor. Have a look at Jake Dalton in the Men's Floor Exercise:

 

 

 

At 0:57 - if you can manage to freeze the frame - you'll see he lands vertically, legs together and seemingly straight with his knees apparently locked, then he bounces off and completes the routine. So the full landing impact seems to be transmitted to his body with maximum force. They all do this, presumably to get the highest score (and maximum harm? ). I take Krista's point that gymnasts are their "own demise ... (they) create the moves.. " but if stick landings are especially damaging, the scoring rules could be changed to give no points for this. Then gymnasts would have no need to do them and the rest of the routine would still be impressive.

 

Here's another pic of Jake