John Doe

I was born in the 80s as well. Though when ask to think upon it, there are two things that come up for me: The fall of the Berlin Wall and the "Tank Man" of Tinnamen Square in China.

This smells fishy to me from your description Xtro... bait and run almost... Kobi if you are around and reading, give us more information like what Xtro has listed. They aren't demanding ones as they are legit. Or did you want someone to ghost write you for free? Nothing wrong with that but you have to out right say it too.

I just accidently came across this movie preview some place else and watched it. Then I came on here and didn't realized you have posted this here long ago... I wished I watched it then. The movie has this very epic feel to it. Epic in the sense of measuring the scope of humanity: the basic instincts of love, life, and living. The book seems like an interesting read. I'm going to read it and then go watch the movie to make a comparison since I kinda enjoy doing that. For anyone who is curious check out the trailer of the movie, the second posted link Lemon Fresh posted. It's interesting to say the least. A nearly 3 hour movie... it sounds long but I think it will work because most movies today in their 1.5 hour time frame lose a lot of details, between characters and relationships... hopefully it does it right. As someone who has never even heard of the book until the trailer, I thought the trailer made a lot of sense. I knew what it was going to be about and what the movie would be trying to chase after. (People in differnt time lines who happen to experience a link - a feeling - that binds them together through past and present... heck even Halle Barry's character says it and what it means to live the life you dream of in the means that life has given you). I'll keep an eye out for this one for sure.

Right. As if you have a complete understanding also. I'm sorry humanity is not something anyone can understand completely because it is filled with a vast array of people with different personalities and beliefs. To suggest even the inkling of an idea that someone can understand humanity is a joke. We can only understand humanity in the vaguest sense. God forbid I disagree with someone and express my opinion. I don't wish to argue for the sake of argument. I just thought I'd sahred my thoughts as you have. People can like what I said or dislike it. But if you dislike, don't box me as someone who looking and "wishing" (aka wanting) to argue. We're people with different experiences and we won't always see eye to eye on things. I wasn't going to comment on this thread anymore, but I couldn't ignore this comment. There has been a handful of times I have argued with people. Most of them in the soapbox and a few outside, but I don't go out looking for them. I don't troll the site. Most times, I state my opinion and there's an equally passionate response back. I tend to get a bit sarcastic when I present my thoughts, it's who I am. I'm that way with my friends and such. In fact, I'm relatively silent compared to some other posters. What's the point of a discussio without being able to state your opinion. A one sided view on things is not a discussion. I did address your comparisons that you brought up. It may be "dramatic" and "entertainment" but they were valid arguements as they suggested that the circumstances were completely different. But of course, to you they must have not been because someone has to be blamed and it can't be the kid. Nope, I said it before and I will say it again. I am blaming the kid. His actions are his own responsibility. Yes, as a group (humanity) we need to be accountible for our own actions. As such, as individiduals, we also need to be responsible for our actions. The cases you presented are different in scope than to the bus case. Jesus was a religious leader persecuted because of this fact. Joan of Arc was a military leader caught and killed by her enemies. The issues with Titantic was the lower class was locked against their will in under the decks of the ship - they didn't have the freedom to move around and make their own choice. The boy in the bus did. So find a better comparison and bring it up so I can take the discussion more seriously. Those that you mentioned are different in circumstances. Yes, I believe the events that unfold on the Titantic were not the victims fault as they were restricted in what they could do. Their very freedom for the duration of that voyage was restricted. So those in charge of Titantic had to take responsibility. The lack of life boat was at the fault of the ship folks too, so again those who created the Titantic was again at fault. The boy had the choice to stick his head out in the hatch or not. Emergency hatches are for emergency use. That's why they are called "emergency" hatches. The bus was not in an emergency situation unlike the Titantic. Your Titantic argument will work had the bus was in an emergency situation. If someone fails to ignore the labeling and dies it's their fault, much like if someone fails to read directions or read the warning labels. Heck, garbage disposals don't come with a warning label and yet people know not to stick their hands in the disposals while it's on or flick it on when their hand is down the drain and yet from time to time there are accidents with the disposal and yet no one is sueing the garbage disposal companys for better "product" or "warning." I do see your points. You want it to be safter so future people won't get hurt. I'm not ignoring that fact. But regardless of how many warnings or how many public service announcements you make people will still get hurt. There are still drunk drivers. There are still killers. There are still kids who will still stick their heads out of an emergency hatch on the second deck of a two story bus . And I'm going to be a bit sarcastic here. You can't put common sense into people who ignore their own good judgment and or laws or regulations. Hence, the fault would be theirs alone. I saw a few memes the other day and though seemingly harsh they target the issue of people lacking common sense and wanting to blame other people or things. "Everything happens for a reason, but sometimes the reason is that you're stupid and make bad decisions." Again, the boy chose to stick his head out the emergency hatch in a non emergency situation even after being told by an authority figure multiple times. If you revoke his choice in the matter to not count then you have to revoke the choices other people make to not count. You cannot make exceptions. Emergency hatches are manual capable becuase they need to be in emergnecy cases. If the bus flips and damage is done to the electrical component of the bus and say there's an gas/oil leak and a fire starts and the emergency hatch is solely sensored controled (thus electrically control) what will you do then when the electrical emergency hatch is broken and won't open? Boom. Everyone trapted in the bus who weren't close to a door or couldn't climb out of an opening in time dies. With all this said and done, I'm not jumping for joy that the boy died. Neither do I think he deserved to die. Just for clarification in case, someone out there wants to assume otherwise. Like I said before, the circumstances are sad though the choice lacked common sense and thought. If you fail to see (or refuse to read and understand what I'm saying that's you're perogative. Because there was a comment made in regards to me, specifically, I felt like I had to response (which I have no issues with. I am willing to clarify my thoughts). But this thread is no longer just a informative thread and rather a debate and unless it's moved to the soapbox I won't make any more comments in this thread.

If only GA was a physical place.

Some of you are familiar with my stories. Some of you maybe haven't read my works. As some of you know, I am working on getting my story Eye of the Tiger represented by an agent and then published. I haven't queried yet because this summer I've been too busy with my real life job. I have also began to procasinate the past month or two by writing something else. But I have been doing research. Looking up agents. Reading on agency bios and agent bios. Researching who represented what book and author and how accomplished and how much work an agent had put forth in their client's work. It's sad to say that I've stumbled into articles written within the pass year or so telling stories of agents and editors forcing or requiring (in a contract they present to the authors) to change the sexual orientation of their characters to being straight. If they don't do that, they should remove the characters completely. Of course, in the articles, the authors refused but I can only imagine there are those who do comply. My first impression was: WTF. (Excuse the language). Then I raged and then I scoured the net for more stories. And behold more stories pop up. There was even a story about this topic in Publisher's Weekly. And these agents aren't your middle to new agents. These are "top" agents and editors. Then I was sad. Discourage until I find this video in this link: http://www.lambdaliterary.org/features/vt/09/03/nicola-griffith-why-do-you-call-it-scifi/ I have never read her books before, but I would like to now. That quote in the title, she said that. So here's to anyone and everyone who wants to write a book and get it published via the traditional way. Don't give up, and tell those agents/editors who tell you you need to change the orientation of your characters to take their manuscript and shove it in their ... If their comments and suggestions are in regards to other things and issues.... then I'm going to suggest to at listen (not necessarily do... just listen and gage) to those, but changing orientation... NO. Enjoy the video.

This is the most laughable argument I ever heard. You are comparing different situations. The Titantic claim would make sense if those kids were placed in seat beat and some one crashes into them and the kids weren't allowed to take off the seat beat and then the bus explodes killing them all... would be comparable. Jesus was preaching a religion unlike this boy who stuck his head out the window. It would be comparable say this kids was preaching to the other kids and the security guard didn't like and shoved him up through the hatch so the kid could get killed. Joan of Arc was serving in a war. She was the casualty of war. Your arguement would make sense if the kid was leading and charging it's bus load of people to demonstrate and protest or fight a cause and the folks from the other side or even police came and pushed him through the hatch and thus had him killed. Of course, with visions as diluted as yours you can always blame others. Because every circumstance is the same for you. I guess someone just wants to world to be dumber longer, to teach our children to be idiots, and have no accountability, for they are "kids" and have no repercussions because it isn't their fault. So that more folks can die because they can blame other folks. People what you did wrong isn't your fault, it's someone else's fault. And when you are deemed "mature" enough you magically become smart, knowing, and retain common sense... it's not through personal experience and the experience of others... it's magic. So the next time you ride an airplane go open that emergency hatch and stick your head out into the sky because you derserve that curiosity. Enjoy it. Because if something happened, it's not your fault. It's the airline's fault. Go play with that locked up gun in your house. If you kill someone it's not your fault, it's the gun maker and sellers fault. When you fail your classes, it's not your fault, it's your teacher's and professor's fault. Because you are young and have no responsibility. Because you obviously can't make a choice. Sorry. But I'm done here. This discussion is getting ridiculous and someone has this make believe sense that lacks all common sense to see the world as is. Always blaming others for your mistake just shows that Darwin should take you out of this world. I guess people should be sueing car makers and alcohol makers for drunk driving accidents. Or car makers for accidents period. Because they are capitalizing off of people, because you know they are forcing us to buy vehicles. Or scientists for engineering such possible feat because people weren't told that driving at a certain speed and crashing would equate to death. Because when people decide to drink and drive it's not their fault.Those people who get into wrecks its not their fault because the means were provided for them. They should be required to think and say," If I do this I can hurt other people." So all those teen killers and rapist. Go tell their vicitims that it's not the fault of the murderer and rapist. The murderer and rapist weren't taught correctly. That they are young and don't know any better because you know as a human being we don't know at all that raping and killing is not wrong. You're arguments may make sense to a person who lacks any self accountability. Who thinks whatever they do is right and never their fault. Your arguments are perfect for the people who start wars, racism, and homophobia because why should these people know any better. It's not their fault if they hate on gay peoples. They just were taught better so when they beat and tie a person to a fence post, they have no accountability. Someone else is at fault.

I'm sorry. The SG and the bus driver are not at fault. As said, all roof top hatches are for emergency use only. I think it's stupid to protect the idiocy of people. Since when was it other people's job to be accountable for other folks. If you (the person, not anyone specific) fail to use common sense and listen and die it's no one's fault but you're own. It's because everyone always wants to blame someone else that this world is going to crap. No one ever wants to be held accountable for their own actions. If I give my friends a ride and someone slammed into us and all my friends die except me, I guess I should be held accountable since I didn't make them sign a waiver that they may die with me in my car. So what if the SG went downstairs for 2-5 minutes, the kid was warned. This claims of SG or Driver being responsible makes as much sense as those folks suing fast food joints for spilling their hot drinks on themselves. Anyone can figure that a hot coffee would be hot. Or blaming the airline for someone opening the emergency hatch while the airplane was in the sky. Because it's surely the airline's fault for having the emergency hatch as it's the bus company's fault for having an emergency hatch. It's an emergency hatch. Don't use it if there's no emebergency. Simple as that. In fact, if anything the bus company should sue the kid for endangering everyone on the bus, if you're going to go that route (of sueing folks). Driver should determine what went wrong with the AC. Really? A driver's focus should always be the road and driving never anything else. It is his job to drive. Driving is not easy. You are already multi-tasking as is. But I guess he can put the bus on auto-pilot and go check the AC. Again, those questions are a bit ridiculous. When people aren't held accountable for their own actions and people look for someone else for "accountability" what's to stop the next person from doing something stupid. Faulting others is letting those with stupidity or lack of common sense reign free with no self responsibility. I'm sorry I'm not sympathetic towards anyone who tries to blame other's for their own mistakes. This world would be a better place if everyone is accountable for their own actions, instead of placing blame on others. This kid was not innocent though I don't think he deserve to die. Just because he died doesn't mean someone is at blame. Sure I'll be more lenient if no one warned the kid or easpecially if the kid had mental issues. I apologize HH5. I know you're just trying to make sense of this tragedy but I really hate it when self accountability is thrown out the window. Forcing fault onto someone else when it's obviously your own fault (such as this case) and not heeding the well tended advice of others is cowardly and disrespectful to everyone. I'm not annoyed at you, HH5, just the suggestion or idea. When people fail to take responsibility, they will never think anything is their fault. A shooter won't be responsible for the people he killed because it's the gun seller's fault. A college student caught cheating isn't responsible for failing because it's the professor's fault for not telling students to not cheat or taking measure such as caging each student individually. A person who died in an natural gas field because he decided to smoke there causing an explosion isn't at fault because it's the natural gas' companies fault. Having no self accountability paves the way for more problems not less. Edits: I have relied too much on spellcheck. Ugh.

I disagree. It is not the driver's fault for the stupidity of others nor should he/she (the driver) be held accountable. The kid has been told multiple times not to open the hatch by an adult. He did it anyway. Blaming the driver would be like blaming the driver for the death of a person who suddenly jumps in front of your car /bus to commit suicide. Did the kid deserve to die? Some would argue yes for his own lack of judgment. I don't think so, people make dumb mistakes - everyone does. Making someone accountable is basically wanting to place blame and in this case, the driver was not to blame. The kid was. He had been warned not to open the hatch. It doesn't take a genius that the warnings were for saftey precautions. There are stories (the ones people tell each other and jokes about) all the time about people losing their heads in moving vehicles. In fact, I have one and it's not just a story as it happened to someone I know (though not well, but still makes me shudder thinking about it). Immediate decapitation. Even if there were chaperon it seemed like this would have happened. The secuirty guard took one moment to tell the driver to turn up the ac and it happened in the few seconds that his back was turned. Unless there was a chaperon for each kid, this could may have happened anyway. When a kid is willing to disobey authority, even when said authority warned him multiple times, he won't likely listen to instructions even if it's from a different authority figure. Hatches are typically there for emergency use on buses. They are typically labeled for emergency use. There was no emergency in this case. It's just too bad someone die from their own stupidity before they can wise up. I did a whole lot of stupid stuff when I was a teen. Some days I question how I even got here. I sympathize with the kid, his family and friends. But people have to take responsibilities for their own actions. Sometimes they can't because they die. In some cases, the responsibilities does lay in someone else's hand but not in this case. The driver doesn't need to be held accountible for this accident. The kid does even though he's dead now. RIP Daniel. Edits: Corrected illogical words.

Ah the fan gushing... He hasn't made a lasting impression on me yet, but I'm sure that song will come soon... but I do enjoy him when one of his songs come thru via shuffle mode.

This first paragraph are ones I really like, love even. I actually like ballad songs/groups. I especially enjoy 2am (boy ballad group). Like I am crushing hard on two of the members. In fact, my avatar picture features one of the dudes (the guy on the left, which is one of the two guys I'm crushing on). I like the Brown Eyed Girls a lot. I like them becase their recent songs have more underlying meanings to them rather than just being about love/romance etc. I also loved Son Gain (a member of the Brown Eyed Girls who went solo for awhile). I also greatly enjoy CN BLue and FT Island. V.O.S (Voices of Soul). I also like F(X) and the group's leader's, Victoria, personality has to do with it to some degree too. Kim Bum Soo. T-ara's songs are catchy and one of the girls I really like because of her appearances in a few k-dramas. I also greatly like Miss A and 2NE1. I listen to the same groups as Panda and the ones you listed. Others I listen to and enjoy are 2pm (the companion group to 2am, from the same studio), Gavy NJ, SeeYa, a few songs from the Super Juniors (just a few and usually the fast paced songs... they're not really good at ballad songs IMO), 8eight (the guy in my avatar picture on the right belongs to this group, I believe and I like his body and voice too - haha), Co-Ed, K. Will, SS501 (an older boy band group... but they have new stuff now too), Kara, 4minute, and of course the Wonder Girls. There are many groups where I like one or two of their songs (which is a lot of groups or persons, as K-Pop seem to only release songs by the pair... mini albums (albums with less than 6 songs) are very prevalent in Korea because of the multitude of groups the studios crap out). And to list a few I don't mind listening to: Teen Top, Beast, Infinite, G.NA, Kahi, Sistar, 4Men, SM The Ballad, Kim Jong Kook, ZE:A, Wax, Rainbow, Joo, Baek Ji Young, Seung Ri, Code V, Hwanhee... Sorry if I overwhlemed you, just wanted to list a few for you to look up if you like. Sorry about the delay in response. I forgot I commented on this thread.

I'm an avid K-Pop listener and this guys gets worldwide recognition... though I do have to say the music is catchy and I do like one other song of his for the same reason.

OoooOOOOOOooooOOh cool stories! I have one myself. When I was 12 or so, my family and I always visited this farm because we were friends of the family. This day we stayed late because other folks had came and visited so it was like one mass gathering. It was in California and in the summer so the night was really warm and it was around 9pm or so and us tween/teens decided to play hide and seek in the dark while everyone else was inside the house. There were about 13 to 15 of us. We laid down parameters of the barn and the lot the house was on was where we could hide, no pastures or anything. Anyway, in the first instance/search I got to hide. I decided to hide in a small probably large bedroom room size field of tall dried grass that was angled from the house. My brother came with me and we laid on the ground and waited. While we waited we heard footsteps crunch through the grass. And we waited thinking we were so busted and found. But the footsteps came so damn close and neither my brother or I saw anyone, even when I swore I heard the foot steps a few feet away from me, which would have been close enough to spot me in the grass. Sometime listening to the grass, my brother's senses must have been better than mine because he got scared. He kept claiming that it was cold. I was like he's out of his mind cause it was hot as hell. Anyway we decided to leave because my brother got too freaked out and got caught right when we emerged from the grass. Thus we became the two who had to search for the second round first. When we found people, my brother quit because he kept saying something felt off to him and he went inside the house. Near the end when myself and the people I found were looking for the final few people, we came back to the grass patch, and this time instead of going directly into the patch we searched the bushes right next to the house. Beside the house, there was also this tree that grew over the house and had branches low enough for someone to climb it. I swore I saw someone's feet swinging from a branch. The folks with me and myself inspected the tree and one fo the girls with me claimed to have saw someone up there too. So we shouted for the person to come down, no response and someone ran to get a flashlight so the person couldn't cheat his way out if he decided to make a break for it. Only when the person left, the girl with me claimed that the air was kinda of cold as she was nearest the tree. As soon as she said that, it kinda freaked me out as my brother had said the same thing. Guy comes back with flash light as we shone it up into the tree, a dog that the other group had was barking like crazy right at this point. When we met up with them, they said the dog was jumping and barking directing his barks uptop the roof. We found the last of the folks in the barn. When we were about to start round three. The lady who owned the house comes out yelling at us to get off the damn roof cause she didn't want no one getting hurt. We all looked at each other and everyone did a mental count and we were all present except for my brother who was already inside the house. That did it for us, and we all ran inside the house and decided to play board games instead of hide and seek in the dark. Creepiest night I have ever had.

I find this number very hard to believe when I first heard it as they (movie producers and directors) knew how popular the books were and the anticipation were speculated to match that of Twilight. Lawrence herself made waves in the acting world in Winter's Bone too. Oscar nominated and everything. I wasn't expecting her figure to be double millions... but somewhere at 1 million. It's so weird as I think actors are over paid and yet when they get paid in a "small" amount like that, my head reels cause other actors would get paid more. I just finsihed watching the movie for the first time half an hour ago (didn't have the chance to when it came out to theatre) and it drove me to actually pick up Catching Fire and I have to say, it's a good thing because I'm finally getting over my qualms about the second book being similar to the first and is now able to enjoy it. I think that actor (for Finnick) is cute. Contacts and dyed hair and he'd be good. I'm betting he'll put on some weight like Lautner did for New Moon.

Disney believes in "traditional" family values. But regardless, it was fun to watch. I love the line about the toilet bowl and fratguy... was not prepared for that line.