Westie

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry; At Christmas I tend to take a long break and absent myself from the internet a little. While I often slip back to read posts, I try not to post too much. It's all about getting myself on a stress-free and even keel for the start of the year. With some of my health challenges, this becomes especially important. There's been a lot going on, but I will attempt to cover a lot in this post. So... we still have a lot of loose ends. Remember though that what "looks" like a loose end now, might in fact be the start of a story arc for the next book. The quality of this story is probably one of the best in the whole "Bridgemont" series. It has been significantly longer, more detailed and more complex than any of it's predecessors. It has also been, I suspect, much more of a challenge for the author, with a huge amount of research going into it. You may not be aware just quite how much Mark will research seemingly small details of the story. So Granger has at last returned to these shores, and it looks like he will be land-bound for some time. It would be a grave dishonour for him to fight in any wing of the military until he has been exchanged, and one thing we do know about Granger is that he would hate to have a smear on his honour. Luckily though, Arbour has created a situation where Granger will be in the middle of intrigue. He is now a courtier and member of the royal Household. He is actually that rare thing, that cannot exist in the United States - he is a member of all three wings of "sovereignty". Firstly, he is an officer of the crown and personally answerable to the King as Governor and Constable of Windsor. Secondly, in that role of Governor and Constable, he is a Judge of Record and therefore a member of the Judiciary. Finally, as a Member of the House of Peers (house of Lords) he is also a member of the legislative branch. That makes him a powerful political player in his own right. We then have, in addition, his Wife - whose influence has not diminished. A shrewd businesswoman, political player, society hostess and networker (before the days of "networking") she has an independent power base that is not entirely dependant on her husband. We also have the Duke of Bridgemont - Some "old money", with renewed influence and favour with the King. And we have enemies. As I have said before, the Guild did not die with Maidstone. Undoubtedly, there are powerful forces out there who will be none too pleased that they were thwarted by a young upstart such as Granger. We also have those in the Navy who feel that Granger has been rewarded too fast and too far. When we consider Granger's next command, I suspect that Mr Arbour will have to balance LOTS of different considerations. Firstly, there will be Lady Granger, The Earl and Countess, and even the King who would prefer the George stay's closer to home. While supporting his career, they might not be in too much of a rush for Granger to be exchanged. Moreover, those enemies that Granger has accumulated might think it safer if he were on dry land. Ricky mentions that Granger should get another frigate - but if we look at the "whole board" for a moment, his enemies might think it safer that he is assigned to a first rate. A frigate captain has lots of opportunity for glory, whereas the captain of a first rate is tied to the apron strings of the fleet. It LOOKS like an honour, but most post-Captain's would have dreaded being posted to such a ship. There is a lot to balance there. I don't know how this will end up... but I wouldnt think that Granger getting a frigate is a "done deal". When Granger does return to active duty, we know that his mentor - the Earl St Vincent - will soon be returning to command the Home Fleet. Does that mean we will see Granger based out of Spithead or some other home port? I'm not sure the issue of a bastard son is really an issue. There might be some payment - discretely - for the boy and his welfare, but I suspect that now that would be done through the Stipend as Governor and Constable of Windsor. In fact, it might have already happened... We know that Granger got the "unexpected" bonus of the Admiral's share of the prize-money. Beyond that, the natural father would have no obligations to the boy. Freddie and Davina... I'm sure their money issues are not over. Especially if they are tying up their funds in non-liquid form. I suspect even the vast Bridgemont fortune will not be enough to sustain Davina's spending. Speaking of that fortune, it would not be surprising if Granger's own wealth has started to eclipse that of his father in the same way that Bertie's wealth has. Finally, we have Granger's standing with the Brotherhood to consider, and the lobbying on behalf of Jardines. This is something we will return to in the future. The Duke of Clarence will undoubtedly play a role here. That's all I can think of for now. I for one don't mind where this story wraps up, because the next will undoubtedly follow in short order. But for the moment, I think the best I can say is "bravo" to the author for what has been a thrilling tale of adventure, intrigue, battles won and loves lost. West

Patience my friend. You cannot possibly change your relationship with your mother until you are on an equal footing. That means no longer being subject to her for your well-being. What is your escape plan? You have 5 months. THAT'S ALL. You say nothing is certain. What are your backup plans? You obviously have "the dream", but what do you have in the way of contingency. You have a target - independence, and later, you have the potential of moving your BF over here. You make a mistake if you thing everything comes at once. It almost never does. Your life is like salami - served slice by slice. In the meantime, revel in small victories. Start by wearing the damn scarf where your mother cannot know.

In fairness, when the law was introduced 150 years ago, it wasn't an outmoded British idea.... it was EVERYONE's idea. It represented the best wisdom of its time... it's only now that we see such things for what they are.

Just to annoy you more on this Zombie (because it annoys me), we agreed to fund NO NEW PROJECTS in India after 2014.... but all existing commitments would be met. it will actually be past 2024 before we stop paying actual money to India.

More like the spirit of an educated guess.... Don't forget that in the end, Ebenezer did send that big turkey, and the Ghost of Christmas future's images didn't come to pass... (i.e. I could just be full of Cr*p)

I wouldn't worry too much. The office could be exercised remotely, and the deputies exercised authority day to day. It probably indicates a posting nearer to home, but we should also note that in June 1799, Earl St Vincent be returning home, and after 1800 will become the Admiral of the Channel fleet. I think it inevitable that Granger will be posted to one of the Home Fleets, with the odd special assignment under his mentor St. Vincent.

Thanks Tim, that was really enlightening, but unfortunately totally irrelevant to the point I was making. A Judges authority is NOT automatic in any way shape or form. It is exercised because the majority of people accept the societal construct that has been put in place as a method of dispensing justice. And Judges DO earn their position. Whether by election (itself a mandate from the people) or via hard work and qualification leading to appointment. However, If there was a coup in your country tomorrow, and someone with NO legal experience, NO history of hard work, NO mandate from the people were put in that place, he would have no respect from anyone, and would have to enforce tenuous authority by violent means. I know you love having nice "rules" that you can reference and live by and that makes you comfortable, but those rules only exist because the general population accepts them to be fair. When that is no longer the case, you get revolution and overthrow of those figures of authority. You again, haven't answered my point. You have just restated your opinion. And you have also changed the phrasing a little. PARENTAL RIGHTS as a legal concept, of course exists, due to the nature of the social construct we live in as I noted above. But as a lawyer you have to be aware of the limitations of those rights - and that they aren't there to enforce parental "authority" (which is what I was talking about). Take the example of being grounded. A parent say's "you're grounded for 2 weeks" - the child can choose to accept that or not. If there is earned respect there, they may very well make the choice to abide by their parent's decision. If the relationship has broken down, the child will just walk out of the house, and the parent will have to enforce his/her authority by other means. Either violent punishment, or by locking the door to prevent escape - because NO court in a civilised world is going to get involved in effectively a domestic dispute. This is my point, if a child chooses NOT to accept the authority of their parents, BUT remains within the law, there is no recourse for that. Which is why relationships have to be built on, nurtured and developed over time in order that BOTH parties accept the extent (and limitations) of authority. There is NO right that a government cannot take away, as long as it can enforce it without revolution. Your Patriot Act is a good example. By collective consent you agreed to give up a part of your liberty. The Government of China removes liberty ALL the time There are no natural or god-given rights. They don't exist. The way I know that is that If we were all marooned on a desert island, I could remove your freedom of speech, I could remove your liberty and I could remove your right of privacy - all by tying you up naked to a tree with a gag in your mouth. And the only way to stop me would be if you were stronger than me. The ONLY "natural law" that I cannot see a way to reconstruct is "Survival of the fittest". As to how this relates to the story - we seem to have got away from the point. And we don't know where Mark is taking things. What I would say though is that anyone who expects respect in the story without any justification - merely because of their position - can only expect younger generations to disregard them. It's the way society is changing.

The governor of Windsor (Actually the "Constable and Governor of Windsor") was not a ceremonial post at this time (in the way it is now). While it is true that day to day, much of the undertaking of that role was delegated to the Deputy Governor and his minions, the role of Governor itself actually held considerable power. For instance, as well as being the colonel of the Castle Guards, he was also the Judge of Record for Windsor Castle, the town of Windsor and its environs. This encircled many other small towns and districts too. Granger will be free to exercise that power of his own volition, whereas in a ceremonial role if the powers still exist they can only be exercised on the advice of the government.

Thanks Tim, but I think I completely understand respect. We have two differing viewpoints as to how respect is gained, but I do completely understand what respect is, and I practice it when it is appropriate. I respect my parents because over 28 years, we have grown together with mutual actions to the point that the respect is deserved. They earned my respect by being good parents, with sound judgement, by being honest and caring towards me. I earned their respect by recognising their judgement and ACCEPTING the boundaries they placed on me. I say ACCEPTING, because a Parent's authority does not - to my mind - exist as a right. A parent does not automatically have good judgement, and for that matter an "elder" doesn't automatically have good judgement. You gave the example of a judge, you seem to think that respect is automatic, which of course is complete bull****. A judge's authority derives from the greater society - those whom he has authority over - accepting the rule of law. They also accept that over years of sound judgement through a complex legal system, the judge has EARNED his status. If by some fluke of fate I were appointed a judge tomorrow, I can promise you that nobody would afford me the respect of the position just because of my new office. You EARN the office. As a Parent, from the day your child is born, your actions, decisions and discussions earn you your position. I speak to that based on my Step-father. He was abusive towards me and my brother - and although he held the "office" of a parent, he neither deserved, nor was granted my respect. He never earned it, and he did considerable damage to the little he might have had. Yes, the law might accept a parents authority in certain matters. But a court isn't going to step into the minutiae of domestic life. Parental authority is a great deal predicated on the child or children accepting that authority to begin with. Where I am coming from is that if a parent hasn't earned the respect of their child, they cannot expect to exercise that authority by god given right. God given rights don't exist. It's the same with "elders". The idea that they deserve your respect just because they are older than you is complete rubbish. The idea that experience brings wisdom is only true if you learn from your experiences. You have to have certain temperament, intelligence and humility to gain wisdom from the sum of your experiences. You ask me to "please spare me anecdotal stories about unwise older people. Society has accepted for millennia that age brings experience and experience wisdom." - I say that society is WRONG, and has been WRONG for millennia. Society accepted for thousands of years that I should be stoned to death for being gay. Society accepted for thousands of years that women were less than a man. Only a few hundred years ago, society accepted in the US constitution that a slave was only 3/5ths of a man. "Society accepts" is a poor argument for anything. As a people we are more and more moving towards meritocracy in which your achievements will be valued much more than arbitrary numbers and goals. Respect being earned is an extension of that. Nothing belongs to anyone by right.

Can you explain to me Tim, why being OLDER automatically affords you respect? Or why Parents automatically gain respect from their Children? You have an old fashioned view of respect, and to me it's completely wrong. Respect is a two way thing that is earned and developed over time. Nobody has an automatic right to it from anyone. You're the kind of guy, I perceive, that thinks "because I said so" is an acceptable answer from a Parent - as if their authority is more important than motive or cogent argument.

While this is not the thread for an in depth discussion of breakfasts around the world, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not confuse the oil drum breakfast of the army with a "Full English". For example, the addition of fried eggs instead of poached or scrambled is a relatively recent invention. And sausages and bacon should be grilled, not fried. The ONLY thing that goes near a frying pan in the hash browns (assuming you made them yourself and didn't buy frozen). Occasionally, I will fry the black pudding, but since this is made up of animal fat anyway (plus clotted blood and things), its really a case of "in for a penny, in for a pound". I have a hundred other "rules" for a true english breakfast, but those should wait for another thread. West

You American's are all about the eggs and bacon.... for me (as a Brit) a breakfast doesn't count as "kick ass" unless it includes fried mushrooms, grilled tomatoes, sausages, hash browns and MOST importantly, a properly cooked (i.e "rare" cooked) Black Pudding. Apple Juice for us English (can't grow an Orange in this Green and Pleasant land), we do now drink coffee, but more traditionally tea. And no French press for me... I would use a cafetiere (same thing, sounds better...) :P :P :P

Well, Since he lives in Britain (with me!! :D:D:D ) It's not surprising that he'd use the proper term.... "maths" I love how you can correct (or play correct, since I guess this ain't serious...) while using the word "righter" in a sentence.... LOL Not calling you out either, but just pointing at one of the things that makes me chuckle at 9am on a Sunday ...

Ha! You're OLD Well, 9 months younger than me, but WA! You're OLD!

Or she could spend the night with me (and Paya, obvs), we'd drink wine, eat chocolate, gossip, listen to music and at 4am (probably)... Drunk dial Nephy and write status' on GA that we'd regret later My night sounds more fun

I self identify as gay. I find women attractive, but I think it would be almost impossible to have a relationship with one. I define as Gay rather than bisexual, because although I could have a sexual "event" with a woman, I could only truly be myself with a man.

An incredibly nervous guy who is grappling with a decision, grappling with some negative reactions from his family and knowing that millions of people are about to watch and in some way judge him for who he is. I think even an American would struggle to be articulate in those circumstances...

I think it's terribly important that we all rush to plant a label on this guy. Personally, the label below is the one that i like best (emphasis in red is mine)

And I'm always right as Paya will wholeheartedly agree

Blush... Double Blush OK, now we need Sharon to come along and deflate my head with some witty yet effective put down...

I think some of you may be expecting too much here regarding Granger and his release. Here are the salient facts: (1) Granger is a man of honour To a man like Granger, honour comes before all else. The betray your honour is to stain not only your family but also your King. With that in mind, even if a rescue party came to Paris to break him out, I doubt very much that he would go along with them. Unless the King had accepted an unconditional surrender from the French, Granger would feel bound by his promise not to escape. (2) Parole is granted only when the last advantage has been extracted The whole concept of parole is that it is convenient for both sides. For the captor, it removes a threat while at the same time ensuring they don't have to spend money guarding a prisoner. For the Captive, it means gaining freedom in exchange for a promise not to fight until a suitable exchange has taken place. BUT, parole will only be offered when it is convenient for the Captor. At the moment, the French are using Granger for propaganda - to show their own people that they are winning. Only when Granger no longer serves in this purpose (i.e. when the novelty has worn) will he be offered parole. (3) When parole is a matter already agreed, you have nothing to lose by pretending its a favour We already KNOW that the directory have taken the decision to parole Granger "eventually". We also know that the King of Spain is the junior partner in their little alliance. What a great way to make the King of Spain feel like he has some influence than by doing something that you were going to do anyway, but make it look like you are doing it for the King's benefit? Just a few things to ponder I guess West

You think Maidstone was the pinnacle of the Guild? I think he was simply a tool. This is an organisation powerful enough to arrange the appointment of a new Governor, and what do the Privy council do? The easiest thing would be to reprimand John Company and issue immediate letters revoking the appointment. But no.... the Guild is powerful enough that even the Privy Council has to work cloak and dagger like secrecy. Moreover, we have already seen Spencer balk at Caroline's mere MENTION of the guild. This is the First Lord of the Admiralty. He answers not to Pitt, the Prime Minister, but directly to the King. How powerful do you have to be to intimidate such a man?

I just think we aren't seeing the whole board... there are a lot of background politics that will come into play when George gets home. It wont just be about rewarding George. He has made some powerful enemies (the guild). We do not yet know what his father will be lobbying for, or his wife. We know he has done the King a personal service, but it would look bad to award both the Earl and George with peerage advancement at the same time. Moreover, George only just got his first elevation. I think Mark is going to have to do something unanticipated here.

Re: Granger's reward.... it is worth noting that there are other ways to reward a man such as Granger without needing to resort to the peerage. The peerage wouldn't necessarily be the first choice of reward either. the tantalising question is, what do you give a man who doesn't need money, and really doesn't need the next rung on the peerage ladder... And how might such a reward serve multiple interests. What are Caroline's needs? What would the Earl and Countess want? What would a neglected Duke of Clarence lobby for? And what would show George to be in the King's favour, yet meet all of the above?

This weekend was particularly sad for me, but to understand just how sad and why, I have to go back a little. First of all, I want to tell you about my dog. She came to us 13 years ago as the runt of the litter, and right from the start she seemed to have a charisma about her. She was also a born nurse. Just after she arrived as a puppy, I got sick and had to go back to my mum to recover, and the whole time I was there she never left my side. She cuddled right into me when my fever was causing me to hallucinate. Fast forward 10 years and I am moving to London. In the interim, my mum has gotten divorced and escaped an abusive (mentally) marriage. She came to live with me, but when I got an offer to move to London I had to leave my mother on her own. But that was fine, because I know our dog would look after her. On Thursday morning, at 1am, I got call from my mum in an incomprehensible babble. Through her tears and cries, I heard the word "dead" and initially my thoughts turned to my Grandma. AS it was, my dog had a massive heart attack and died. My mum was distraught. For a long time, our darling dog had been her companion and her friend. When lonely nights closed in, they were a team. And of course, I felt less guilty for leaving. I got the first train I could up from London (London is approximately 2.5 hours from my hometown). My mum was obviously devastated and Paya and I have spent a lot of time trying to pull her through. Combined with the stress of work at the moment, extra trips home mean that I will not have much spare time. At the start of last week I was in Vienna. I was in Belgrade at the end of October, and possibly will be there next week. I have spent over 30 hours in the last 3 weeks on planes, trains or other transport. All this does nothing to ease my guilt that my mum is now alone. West