B1ue

You used a song about an evil tyrant threatening to put an entire city to death so she could get out of a marriage at the romantic climax of this chapter?

I said in reviews that I don't fully condemn Marie for her actions. As written, I don't think her motivations excuse her actions, but there are motivations out there that would have, in my mind. I agree that she was probably jealous, probably annoyed at Will, and wanted to strike back at him, family or not. And that's just not cool. But one thing I don't see, and would have liked to see, was that as much as Marie owed Will her silence, he owed her something to. And that somehting was to not stick your family member into a moral conflict without good reason. It would be one thing if Will loved Kyle, and intended to develop an open and comitted relationship with him. As much as she seems to lvoe drama, Marie likely would have actively helped Will achieve that. At least, that's my reading; your mileage may vary, but I honestly think Marie loves drama more than Will, and would have done whatever action would create more of that. But, as Will was only getting his rocks off, Marie had to run the risk of permanently pissing off one of her friends so that her cousin could have convenient sex. And that's not cool either. I wish she'd stated flat out that she was not happy keeping that secret, and told Will that if the plot started to unravel she'd throw him to the sharks in a second (honesty is also somehting they owed each other), but I don't really think this was on her mind. TLDR, while I was also raised in a close-knit and clannish family, I don't think I would have done differently than Marie did here. My motivations would have differed, and Eric would have gotten at the very least a stern talking to for roughing up my cousin (he's a bitch, but he's MY bitch, so hands to yourself), but the actions would have probably been identical.

Yes to sick in 2001. I'm fairly certain it was being used ironically in movies at that time. I'm not certain about dank. I've heard it used, but I didn't really hang out with habitual marijuana users until college, so that wouldn't have been until 2003 at best. Edit: *blinks* I am an editor? This is news.

I'm not sure I'd have taken Mason back either, in Khayyam's shoes. And yeah, Mason was pretty stupid. And panicked. I'm glad you liked the story!

I'm willing to give Hank the benefit of the doubty for now, partly because she was good with Maddy, partly because she joked a little with Will. I wonder how much she's interacted with signifigant others with teenage kids before? Or even kids at all? Part of her awkwardness may stem from that. For Jeanine's sake, I hope they all survive Rome. Will can handle himself, I'm sure.

While I don't think Will did anything wrong in sleeping with Kyle, I do think he was wrong in forcing Marie and John to help hide it. The consequences of doing that were inevitable to me. If I'd been in Marie's shoes, being forced for months to lie by ommission would have been mentioned in defense. Of course, I don't think Marie is thinking that way. It seems like she was being forced to sit on a particularly juicy bit of gossip, because it involved her cousin, and the pressure just got to be too much.

Way to put it in perspective, Brad. Though that's almost certainly something my own parents would have said.

There are always reasons behind it, even when the reason is "because I can." And, speaking as someone whom almost everyone I know makes allowances for, excusing rude behavior I usually don't mean and hardly ever even notice unless it's brought to my attention, just because someone has reasons, doesn't make it excusable. Also, I hate to say this, but some people don't react to rape or molestation by becoming assexual. While I don't particularly want to read about a 13 year old that looks 11 engaging in orgies, some people do react by becoming aggresively sexual. There's reasons; one can put to past behind them by eroding the memories with experience, or having had their virginity taken from them, conciously or unconciously cope by devauling sex (because if it was worth little, what happened to them was no big deal). That said, with Will and Jeff we've had characters that represented both of these ideas, so perhaps JJ can go assexual for a time, defying both his genetics and upbringing. Leaving all that aside, an interesting thought occured to me. Method, you mentioned that it was likely several of Hayes boys would likely enlist, which is something I agree with. I think it'd be an interesting counterpoint to The Box, when Aaron deserted and Stephen stayed on, if a Hayes boy manages to find himself in the military. It does happen; both of my sisters are much steadier and happier as enlisted, even if one is still messed up from her last tour in Iraq and her husband is equally, if differently, haunted by his tour in Afganistan.

There were no pictures, therefore it did not happen. Where DID I put that CD? I know I have it somewhere... Shane's actions hit me hard this chapter, so good choice for that soundtrack.

I don't remember "raw" being used in that way. Maybe on TV, but I don't think I've ever used it like that, unless I was saying the full phrase "raw deal."

Oh, it's coming. My father's family has a genetic predisposition to go grey early (I already have small streaks that no one notices except me from any kind of distance), but they all avoided it.

Wow. Thanks y'all. Although my mom still denies I'm 29 now. "But, that would make ME old." "I'm pretty sure, Mom. The math checks out. Look on the bright side. I'm not 30 yet."

I remember discussions on this topic before, but to reiterate what I think my points were (and if I'm wrong, I'm going to pretend I said this at the time) monogomy might be great in real life but it makes for a fairly boring soap opera. This is just not going to be a way in which this saga holds a mirror up to life. Brad and Robbie have not been the only monogamous couple broken up by becoming story-leads and secondaries. Stef and Greg went through the same thing. Even if Stef didn't know the details until after his death, it was still driving the early plot of "If It Fits."

With the exception of a couple of schools, who would send their kids to an LAUSD school if they had any other choice? And in anticipation of the question, I went to elementary school in the LAUSD. Two of my sisters got through high school, the sister that is next up in age from me got as far as middle school before she had to be pulled out, it was so bad. A teacher told her there was no point in issuing her a textbook, as she would only get pregnant and drop out anyways. She was twelve.

I wanted to double check before replying to this, because it was always possible my memory was faulty. But, no, the census questionaire was as I remembered it. http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf Quite frankly, I would recommend taking the data from that census with a very large grain of salt, particularly in terms of Hispanic races. I doubt we'll ever have truly valid numbers for it, but ancedotal evidence suggests that many people who would never otherwise think of themselves as White, that has a great deal of their personal identity tied up in being not White (or, at least, in being Mixed White), selected White on that census as their sole race for lack of a better choice. It also, the way they set it up, discouraged those that do not identify with a particular tribe from idenitfying as Native American. Again, this is only ancedotal evidence, but every member of my family, as well as every Hispanic acquainance I spoke with on this topic, struggled with that selection. One of my coworkers put "You tell me," he was so irked by the phrasing. I believe I selected White and Chinese, eventually, and would have also selected Native American had I not also had to identify a tribe. For an interesting number, of those that selected "some other race," 97% also selected Hispanic. I would hypothesize that the lingering effects of the "casta" system and the Mesitzo identity within that system had a bit to do with that, but that's merely my take on it, of course. Edited for grammar. I'm tired.

That was almost my exact reaction to this situation. I'll have to re-read the opening chapters of this story, but up until this I'm not sure Matt really got Wade's side of that problem. Oh, intellectually, perhaps. But I think, at base, he was more or less humoring Wade, because he couldn't imagine a situation where their needs would actually conflict.

Dude, give it up. You know what I meant, and how I meant it, or you wouldn't have claimed Whites were a minority in Los Angeles. And that's not exactly an accurate statement. I, personally, represent all four racial groups. Nor am I the only Hispanic able to make that claim. Slaves, and the breeeding programs associated with that institution, were not exclusive to the Antebellum South, though unlike many African-Americans I don't truly feel affected by that history beyond knowing why I'm darker than pure Ute-Aztec racial stock. In counting the instances in which JP has corrected behavoir, I was also including the various students JP has "educated" thoughout the years. It's a toss-up, and depends on the person, if torturing someone and killing someone is more traumatic (to the torturer or killer), and JP did that himself rather than at a remove. Though I accept the explanation that it was Wade's greater insight into JP that allowed him to see that reaction. It seems reasonable enough.

I'm curious if Will and JP's reactions are going to create problems. Frankly, I'm surprised at JP. He should have kept it together better (it's not like this is his first rodeo), though I'm not sure if he's ever been in close confines with his intended victims like we saw here. Wade will probably put it together, and possibly butt in. And then what? If Michael keeps his mouth shut and doesn't try to use this against the family, I doubt they'll go after him. As you said, it would start raising more questions, and that's not what they need. Unless...I'd have thought Michael, if he'd retained copies of the photos, would have started to pressure JJ for money. What if he tried the coach too? That might explain the apparent suicide, though that's just a wild thought. Most likely explanation is that the family had him killed. One other bit I liked was the underreaction of the father-in-law. Of course he underreacted. He's probably wanted the guy dead for years. That's an in-law's job.

This is the thing, that doesn't matter. The people most likely to give Darius, or anyone else, crap about their background won't be able to parse subtleties that fine. All they'll see is someone obviously not White, and possibly Middle Eastern. That will be more than enough.

I'm really confused by the response Method and I have garnered. We've both stated, flat out, that we both got racial comments thrown our way immedietely after 9/11 simply because we're both the middle brown that can be mistaken for anything. We're also, neither of us, of Persian or Arabic descent, so of course we don't act as if we are, so that clearly wasn't a factor. Is it that hard to imagine that someone that IS ethnically Persian, who is dark skinned to the point that Brad, Gathan, and Will have all commented on it during their respective tenures as narrator, would experience the same? I know, as Tim pointed out, that we all have different images of the characters in our heads. But Darius doesn't pass for European. It makes little difference, usually, but at that time it would. Edit: To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of insensitivity, so please don't see this as an accusation. I'm honestly curious where the resistence to the idea is comning from.

Didn't see this, or I'd have commented on it too. I agree with the quoted text so much I wrote a poem about it years before I even heard of this website. I will say that I have encountered very little blantant racism, and the worst of it has been from other Mestizos, usually Mexican descendants or nationals themselves, all of that criticising that I do not act Mexican enough. That probably is something you've experienced in your own way, Tim. What Method is talking about, the subtle "You are not one of us" mentality, while less dangerous, is no less annoying.

You were clear, Tim. I just disagree, as I do recall people reacting to Darius's skin color. Like you said, we all have a picture in our minds, I suppose. My mental picture of Darius is apparently darker featured than yours. No. In fact, almost no one believes me initially when I tell them I'm Mexican, unless they know my full name (which is the most Hispanic name ever) and even then, a fair number think my family is weird for giving me a name outside of our language group. I have literally been called a liar over this. My sister and father reports similar issues. Part of the problem is that I flat refuse to use what Spanish I know, and conciously got rid of my accent when I was, oh, 10. If I spoke Spanish regularly or even had my original accent, I'm sure people would make the logical assumption, but they generally don't. There's a picture of me from a couple years ago somewhere in my profile/photos. You can check it out and judge for yourself. Edit, there WAS a picture, but now it's down. Guess you'll have to take my word for it.

It actually doesn't matter if Darius identifies with his Persian side or not. People will make comments. People that don't know him will immedietely trust him less, simply because he is darker than the rest of the cast. And, actually, yes, there have been moments in the stories where people have reacted to the color of his skin, if not specifically his racial background. And, like Jeremy, I got called towel-head and other comments my senior year of high school, and a couple people from schools I played against *tried* to bully me, though that didn't exactly work out well for them. My father also experienced some friction.

Looking at the graph provided, is there another that lists raw enlistment numbers and the actual size of military during the same time period? Because in addition to a greater number of post 9-11 elistment (and that was my perceptions as well, and keep in mind that Tim, Jeremy, and I are all agreeing on something. All we need is Centex, and you have a conspiracy), there was also a huge number of forced re-enlistments and stop-lossed soldiers that were not allowed to leave the military, particularly in the higher enlisted ranks. Since that graph is of a percentage of enlistments vs re-enlistments, could that explain why the percentage of initial enlistments went down while all branches of the military, and the Army in particular, increased in size? Edit: Taking another look at the chart, and the more I look at it the weirder it seems. It's displaying a percentage, but that is it's percentage? 88.1% of carreer soldiers (more than 10 years of service) re-enllist. Okay, I'll buy that, it seems accurate to what my sisters and my father reports, but 67.1% of what is initial enlistees? The total population turning 18? I rather doubt THAT. The total military is less than 1% of the American population at any one time, thought naturally the number of veterans is much higher. So, yeah. I'm kind of curious what I'm looking at there.

Well I'd have liked it, if only because the inevitable interaction between Tony and Noah should be interesting, depending on how attached Tony actually is to Will.