B1ue

Oh he's definetly wild and spoiled. These aren't necessarilly bad things, as you pointed out; you just have to know how to work around them and set your expectations accordingly. And as Wade pointed out, Will needs to figure out how to make his temper work for him instead of against him. Also, Did Brad and Robbie know that Will couldn't stand Mike? I'm not sure Will ever made that clear to them until this situation arose. I remember there being some friction when Pat was starting to date someone and needed some emergency time off, but I can't remember if Brad or Robbie were involved in that.

My response kept coming out much stronger, but I think I'll just keep it to, "No." Excpet possibly about the vaporrub. Never occured to me, and I never did X anyways, but I can definetely see the appeal.

Warning: I'm afraid I got quite rambly with this post, but oh well. Try to wade through it, if you can. Quick aside before I start: I don't think Brad and Robbie allowing a lawyer any say in what they can and cannot say to their own son is very likely. I think it's more likely they think Pat did sleep with Will. And had Will's full cooperation and permission. In regards to the bruhaha, having been in something like Will's position, I can sympathize with his anger. It is annoying as fuck to be the youngest. Everyone tries to decide things in the background for you, quite often won't take the time to explain their decisions to you, and if you get pissed about it, you're dismissed as acting like a kid by people who arne't stopping to think how calmly they'd react to having absolutely no control over your own life. Now that I'm older, I can see some of the whys. It's an added stress to figure out a way to explain already stressful situations in a way that a young person, who really doesn't have enough experience or knowledge to make informed decisions, can understand. Plus, no two people have the exact same priorities. There's a chance that you could explain everything neatly and simply, and the child still won't care, as we see Will acting. Their opinion may even be valid, according to their value system. So sometimes you jsut have to reach for the daddy button and decalre yourself boss of the situation. And hey, that's life. Which, from the point of view of a person that just got their feet kicked out from underneath them, kind of sucks. It's doubly bad when it's a situation like Brad and Will, and the parent has tried to be more of a big brother than disiplinarian, and now wants to switch tactics. It's even worse when every adult seems to have the full story (because it's not their life and they aren't a child, so it's easier to tell them), and won't tell you. Because, again, not their life, they can't fully appreciate what the situation looks like from the dark instead of thier understanding. I got pretty damn good at sneaking around and half-listening to conversations being had by people all the way across the house from where I was playing or reading, not because I am a natural spy, but because I got sick of not having all the information. Things like this incident with Brad and WIll just kept cropping up, where my sisters would know what was up, my parents would know, my cousin my age would know most of the bits, but no one bothered to try and give me a heads up until the decision was made and that was that. And that's when they bothered to tell me anything at all, occasionally I would have no idea why I suddnly had to change what I was doing or where I was going at the last moment (from my perspective, they'd been planning this trip or errand for some time). This sometimes resulted in my not following the script. One time I did my usual wednesday afterschool routine, when everyone had planned on my skipping Tae Kwon Do and going home with my cousin instead, since my parents had to go out of town to a funeral that night. Sorting through that mess took some time, luckily I was pretty resourceful at 11 and arranged ad-hoc my own ride home. And I'd known how to jimmy the garage lock for quite some time by then, so getting to bed and school the next morning was no problem. Wasn't until that afternoon I found out exactly what had gone wrong and what the plan had been. Though, I must say, I never kidded myself that I had control, I always just wanted the information. That may be a personality quirk, as I've carried similar philosophies into my adulthood. Will does think he can control the situation, which is fairly amusing and as Tim said, very 14. I think he handled this incident poorly, his father poorly, and his dramatic declaration that his bodyguard would work for him would be a bit more fitting if he was actually earning the money he'd use to pay said guard. As it is, I'm kind of amused. Any point that he had, that his guard should be someone that he trusts, if it isn't possible to have someone he likes, was lost in the teenage rampage and pity act.

I still want to see what happens when he meets Zach, and if the Anti-Gathan League gets off the ground. Although the last chapter of PMS kind of weakened that potential, in my imagination Gathan has not been keeping in touch with Zach properly, which has started to make Zach jealous and irritated all over again. Won't know for sure until at least the next story, I don't think.

Tim was just saying what it was like for his family. I met people whose parent's were just as crazy as you've described, thought not in any kind of numbers until I was in college myself. That was more to do with where I grew up; most people did not expect to go to college. You were doing well to finish high school, although most of my class did pull it off. It also may have to do with our respective ages. Tim may have just missed the beginning of the helicopter parenting years, and my parents are half a generation older than those of most of my peers. It's hard to draw broad inferences from little data.

Oh? I figured he was added because Will is coming due on the next "love of his life" switch.

See, right up until that last line, you may have sold your point. But bringing astrology into it makes my eyes roll, not least because as a Pisces, one of my overriding traits is to be stoned, and that's certainly not me. In any case, we'll have to see what happens. One more practical point against JJ moving to NYC, or anywhere outside of either California or Ohio is that a lot of the plot from these stories is driven by the interactions within the family. Even when JP founded his spur of the clan out in Cali, he definetely brought as many family obligations and ties as he escaped with the distance. And that was just fine. I'm not certain a narrative where a member breaks from that is going to be able to sustain an entire story. Not saying it won't be different at first to see it play out, but I'm not sure how feasable or interesting a story idea it actually is in the long run. He'd either be a footnote in Will's story, which would be unfair to his character, or the entire rest of the clan would be minor footnote in his story, which would be fairly boring. I could be wrong. As I said, we'll have to see what happens.

Oh, I have a certain amount of experience with this. One of my cousins (actually, three, but only one I had in school with me) is almsot exactly my age. And she's a fucking knock-out, one of the best looking women I've ever met. I love her as a sister, but I admit to some teeth grinding during our teenage years, when we werre going to the same school, did many of the same clubs and classes. In fainress, she had to work a lot harder at our mutual classes for the same results, so she had just as many moments of frustration with me. I'm grateful we did different sports at least. And we get along much better now that we're no longer in the same city, though unfortunately not as close.

Oh yes, I agree that he's taking a ticket out of Los Angeles. I'm not a certain of that as I was last year, but I can still see it. Broadway JJ. The mind boggles. But that's certainly a great reason to go. Edit: About the beach comment. While I actually cannot remember the last time I swam (four or five years ago, at least), I've lived within a mile of the beach since 2002. There's a certain culture that even in Long Beach is present (though less so here than anywhere else I've lived) when you live that close to the water, that I love even if I don't fully participate in it. So I can see a non-beach person still finding an inland environment to be a bit of a shock. And that's leaving aside the weather, as the ocean acts as a great moderator for temperature that you lose rapidly even going a little further inland. Further Edit: The anti-city, that's quite true, for much of Los Angeles. The joke about people from Socal is that only people that arne't really from Los Angeles would say they are. If you're born here, or have lived here any amoutn of time, you're from, say, Malibu. Or Eagle Rock. Or Long Beach. Or La Puente. Or Silver Lake. There's no real unifying culture aside from our avid attachment of our cars and our freeways. That said, some parts, such as those in and around Hollywood stretching to Venice Beach, are as cosmopolitan as you please. This is more or less where I was talking about when I said he could head south a few miles.

I've sort of mentioned this before, but I have a hard tme picturing anyone that grew up in LA, in Malibu no less, loving somewhere that cold, that humid, and that you're expected to walk or take a cab everywhere. So what exactly would JJ love so much about New York? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious why you say he'd love it. Can't be the big city vibe, he can have all that he can stand just by skipping a few miles to the south.

And if you read down, it points out that it is not an accredited health science program, though I've no doubt the experience is valuable and educational. Actually, I snickered while reading the opening paragraph, one of these kids alone with, say, Matt or Gathan.

UCLA is a research university. I'm rather surprised they have a nursing program, actually. She could have gone to Calstate Los Angeles. Its a perfectly fine school, and one with a Kinesiology program.

This is going to KILL George's father if/when it comes out, even if only the clan knows about it all. Assuming, of course, he's not an conspirator. Will honor force him to have Freddie and Davina killed himself? Or will he simply try to calm George down, or even accuse him of making the incident up?

I suppose. I remember Justin Timberlake attempting to sell hmself as Hip/Hop, at any rate. I also remember Evanescence, 3 Door's Down Away From the Sun and Seventeen Days, Linkin Park's Meteora, Yellowcard's Ocean Avenue, Jack Johnson's In Between Dreams, though that one I blame on my college. Much past 2005, I pretty much stopped paying attention to pop or rock, unless it was really interesting like Adele, Katy Perry (her song choices are questionable, but her voice is very interesting) or Foster and the People. Gnarl's Barkley qualified. Edit: I sort of came off as dissmissive of hip/hop as the dominant genre, and I'd like to correct that. It obviously was, you had to make an effort to avoid it. I was able to make that effort.

I'm very pleased to see you making an effort to be inclusive. It's good for you. Also good choice for the time. The love songs and drinking songs ebbed for a time, right after 9/11, at least on my local stations, and gave way to anthems and patriotic calls to duty and songs of plain rage. Very interesting time, for a time.

From the perspective of his ambition, JJ would be crazy to pass up Bulgaria, unless Arizona is seen as a really highly rated event. I can't quite imagine a situation where Arizona would be that bigger of a deal than an international competition, particularly for someone looking to increase his visibility in the field, but I don't know much about figure skating. If it is not, as I assume, the only reason JJ would pass on it would be to spend time with Will. And Will would certainly expect JJ to give sacrifice ambition to spend time with his family. Brad and Robbie too. So I can perfectly well imagine JJ choosing Bulgaria, and that choice driving a wedge between him and the rest of the family. And that wedge being milked for all it's worth when they have no idea where JJ is, if he's okay, was his plane taken out too? Yes, yes they would. There's a pretty big difference between assuming your kid is fine on his own and completely ignoring his existence. I don't think they've crossed that line.

Another thing to consider is that while we can assume, based on Brad and Robbie's characters that they probably don't leave JJ in a state of benign neglect, we don't actually know that they don't. I can't remmber a time in the last several stories that they've gone out of their way to include JJ. Darius and Will have, at least once each, and based on comments Darius in Millenium made we can assume he talks to JJ, but we haven't seen the level of interaction that Brad has shown with Will or Robbie had with Matt. The closest I can recall at this time was when JJ was considering homeschool, and even that was moderated by Jeanine. You all are correct that that this doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it doesn't mean it did either. Brad and Robbie have both had a rough couple of years, as Jeremy points out, and JJ himself has been increasingly high maintenence and absorbed into skating. It might be out of character for Brad and Robbie, generous souls that they are, to not reach out to JJ, but what if they on some level thought JJ didn't want to be helped and frankly would not react well to their attempts? We should keep open minds, I think. The dinner scene clearly proves that, even if it's out of character, right now they are not involving themselves in JJ's life like they really should be. Perhaps they realied on Jeanine to give them a heads up on important events like the big skating competitions, so they could make time for them, but didn't expect it of themselves to keep track on their own. Will, and Claire, simply pointed out their now invalid assumptions. I am distantly suprised neither has a personal assistant that would have ferretted out that information for them, though. Seems like kind of a duh thing to ask.

Whether or not you saw it happening, it happened. To clarify, it happen in California, around the times Jeremy mentioned as far as I can recall. I don't remember seeing them earlier than that, in any case. I don't see how that's relevant to anything. The point raised is about a cultural trend, and one from several years ago. Who you fuck years afterwards doesn't really erase your past, does it? I was class of 2006, but graduated a couple terms early. And I think he might have started a year ahead of me, actually. Memory is still a bit hazy.

I've never even been to Delaware. Jeremy Lingvall. That names sounds familar. You realize this is going to bother me all day, right?

Defintely was an in thing at the time Jeremy says, much to my dismay.

Oh god, I could not stand that. Bugged the living f**k out of me. Not parties though, there I only thought it looked dumb. But I mostly saw people wear polo shirts at work, and there I felt (and feel) strongly that a popped collar is just innappropriate for a professional appearance. I made my workers put it back down. One guy that refused got sent home for being out of uniform. So yes, that's definitely early 2000s. I can't recall noticing them before 2003 or so, but I may be mistaken. I certainly wouldn't have taken notice of them before 2002. And yeah, John Hobart will likely try to do this, though Claire I think will be on my side about this. I alos recall the pink shirt thing. That was weird.

There you go, making assumptions again. I merely said that there wasn't Hip/hop in my memories of that time. That doesn't necessitate that there was country. Nor did I specify where this took place. In fact, country was NOT popular among teens where I grew up. Quite specifically not. We all listened to it, there wasn't much choice, but it wasn't until we all moved away that we collectively began to appreciate it. Or, rather, admit that we'd liked it all along. Modern Rock and pop music was what most of us listened to, along with Christian Rock. I listened to Techno, specifically Trance, for the most part. And, actually, by 2004, I was living in Santa Barbara already. There was also a distinct lack of Hip/hop and R&B there; again mostly modern rock and pop, some there was some leaking through.

Yeah, that doesn't match my memories of that time in the slightest. That may be geography affecting things again. For Los Angeles, Hip/Hop over rock does sound correct.

Will is currently thinking dirty thoughts about almost every male character that isn't a member of his family, and even including a couple of them (John, Gathan, arguably Wade). For the most part, he's following those thoughts with actions, or trying. Offhand, the only character I think he skipped was JJ's bodyguard. I'm not looking for his soulmate any time soon, whatever he thinks is going on. He also has a rather distressing tendency towards drama and arrogance. In combination, well, I hope he grow out of it before he really hurts himself or someone else. That way he can enjoy being young, hung, and gorgeous properly. Also, if Tony has made being on the down low work for him, and adopted a pretty laid back identity, he's going to stay away from Will. Either Will has to calm down (which is entirely possible), or Tony will have to "come out" as gay for their relationship to continue. And I didn't think Tony was gay. Is he?

I doubt we'll reach an agreement on this. Partly because I don't really see Will as all that laid back. He may grow up to be, but at the moment he is very thirteen. And yeah, he's laid back compared to JJ, but so are howler monkeys and pomeranians. One point of contention though, are you certain you'r analyzing Brittney Spears herself, her music, or her fans with that description? Moving on, I can't decide which character this fits best. I think it might be a cipher for Jeanine, Robbie, Brad AND Cody.