B1ue

Personally, I'd have to skip any story that featured a protagonist with a major drug problem. I would not find it, as was said, interesting. I barely get through the pot and ecstasy references with gritted teeth. In fact, I didn't make it through 1968, had to just skim the first couple and last couple of chapters so I could catch references in other books.

Honestly? I started thinking of myself as 27 this year around new years. The problem was that all of these schools are religious affiliated. Actually I just realized something. Tim, the last time Jeremy and I went best two out of three falls over this topic, you were still reading Be Rad. I'll summarize our arguments: Jeremy: Public schools suck, yo. Me: Maybe on the east coast. Toto, you ain't there no more. Not all public schools are created equal here in California. And public schools in a rich area like Malibu are less equal than others. Jeremy: I talked with Matthew! You get some kids in public schools still, but yeah, the majority of the elite go here: {lists off the exact same schools you did}. Me {after an hour of internet searching}: But all those schools are religious affiliated. Brad's calming down about religion, but he's not THAT calm yet. Jeremy: Public schools still suck. However, none of us considered the security questions you bring up. These are excellent points, and one where Brad would let perfectly rational fear trump irrational anger. Also for this reason, I can see Brad seperating himself from Will and allowing him to live with Claire. Plus, Claire will not put up with Will's crap, and I know you are all dying to see that come to be.

That's not a big worry, Jeremy, about being photographed at a rave. It's dark, oddly lit, and half the people have something in their mouths.

A club proper, yes. A house or warehouse party like Tim mentioned would be more fluid. For instance, *I* looked twelve in 2000, but still got into places I'm sure my parents would rather they didn't know about (the hypocrites, thery got into way more trouble than I ever wanted to). To a certain extent, this was true. There were white rappers that had "such a hard life." And some people really got into thug culture. And some of us that thought they were idiots. Granted, my sister and cousins were in gangs and I'd been shot at when I was less than ten years old, so perhaps the allure was just not as strong for me. Me, I just liked to dance. So I did.

Cody is not a politician and does not plan to ever leave LA. Gathan is going to need a partner later on in life, though right now he's probably fine. I think Matt's sluttiness is going to bite either him or Wade, too. I'm interested to see what happens.

I can't say you're completely wrong, Hermitically, because Will is acting like a little shit, especailly towards Jeanine, but I don't think the approach would work. It'd only make him more defensive, I think, and prove that they really are out to get him. I hope he does realize, soon, that his parents have reasons for their actions beyond driving him crazy. I'm also slightly disapointed in Robbie for not explaining to Will why Jeanine gets to say what goes. I hope Brad backs her up more when he gets in. Or Gathan does, since he's proving capable of explaining things to Brad and Wills of the world. Edit: RE: Stef and Gathan. It doesn't really bother me. That's not to say I think it's perfectly fine. In fact, I try not to think about it, since I can't mentally place myself in either character. So I more or less gloss over it mentally, refusing to let it shake my suspension of disbelief.

I can't imagine JJ wearing anything that doesn't have a label. No mall clothes for that boy. But yeah, that's probably about the style you're shooting for. Another point is that Will and JJ are less status conscious than Brad or Darius, and rich enough in their own rights and through their fathers that neither has anything to prove to anyone. If there were any two kids who might dress however the hell they wanted to, it would be them. My memories may be hazy, but wasn't A&F selling the faux destroyed/wrinkled look in the early 2000s? I don't think Claire would let her child outside wearing somehting like that.

Yes, so I've found as I've been trying to come up with suggestions for Trance and other Techno music tracks from that time period. It turns out most of the songs I liked either came out entirely after 2000, or the mixes I know best did. Now, this isn't compeltely the case, but I cannot find my cd's from when I was 16. They're...somewhere in my closet. I'll find them someday. And I can't trust Itunes, because it lies. Horribly. Case in point, it automixed a playlist called "90's music," 2 songs of which are from one of the cd's I swiped from my parents entitled "Groovey: Greatest Hits of the 1960s." So, yeah, can't really trust that much.

I would hazard a guess that Cody just didn't think about it. Yes, he can add, and yes he knew what he did, but not facing something potentially explosive is something he's proven capable of doing. Or, Jeanine might have put her foot down and said "I will tell them in my own time, or they will find only pieces of you." Pregnant women being essentially terrifying and all, I might have believed her. But, yeah, I hope he isn't the dad. Or at least not an active one. Though as someone else pointed out, this may be the catalyst for him to clean up his act. On a side note, I was going to argue "teenage boys must sleep with someone middle aged as a right of passage," but then I thought about it, and, wow. Just Robbie was skipped, I think. Maybe Jeff, my memories of 1968 are kind of hazy. And that's about it. Even most side characters had this.

Dark horse candidates. Though, more seriously, none of them fit to me, so I more or less expected a new character at some point.

Damnit Mark. This whole thread was a dirty trick.

By my count, 14, 15, and 16 comprise a higher number of votes than 16, 17, and 18. (12 vs 10 and 11 vs 10). You have a stronger argument if you go two years. There, 16+17 is a majority for Will bottoming, by 1 vote over the next runner up of 14+15. Of course, 15+16 is also seven votes there. And it doesn't have a majority over Will's first topping, in which case 14+15 ties for first (again, 16+17). Or, we can say that 16+17+18+19 is a clear majority over 14+15 in both catagories. 15+16+17+18+19 doesn't add much, but 14's stance all by itself looks grim, despite it being the popular vote for Will's first time as a top. Isn't statistical manipulatiuon fun?

Okay, no. There's a difference between "non-event" and "not being persecuted." I can buy the latter, but not the former. I'm not saying that he'll be ostrasized or beaten up, but someone is going to object. Think of the crowds Will hangs out with, and not all of them from his own school/neighborhood. If he also becomes a competitive level surfer and water polo player, he's going to interact with people all over Southern California, some of whom are going to want to score man points by putting the spoiled-rich fag in his place. Besides, he's a masculine acting guy, who while apparently can't keep his eyes to himself doesn't strongly scream "gay" like, sad to say, JJ does. Just that amount of mental disconnect is going to perturb some of his friends. They may be condemned by their social peers for having an attitude, but some may not care. California is only liberal in parts. We're the state that voted down gay marriage twice.

I relocated a comment from a different thread to here, because it seems more appropriate. Tim, Sharon, and myself, among others, have all expressed the opinion that JJ can be a bit much. Upon further reflection, I wonder if maybe this view is because JJ hasn't had a chance yet to be prissy in a way that advances the narrator's goals. Up until now, the little diva routine has been something Brad, Will, and Gathan have had to deal with and overcome, not something they've been glad to have in their corner. Consider the difference between how he's been and, say, Stef. I'm sure a time and a place will come that JJ will get to throw the mother of all hissy fits, and that moment will cause the narrotor of the moment to proudly say, "That's my brother/cousin/son." I'd guess it'll be when Will starts coming out at school, and some dim bulb tries to ostracize him and JJ. Will might try to play it cool, and rise above it all, but I don't really think cool is a term that can apply to this JJ, right? Or, alternatively, JJ might find out about the crap Zach has been talking about his little brother. Zach might be bigger, but I'm betting JJ fights dirtier.

I'm not placing behavoirs on you, but yes, according to my definition of homophobia, shared by others and in fact one that I cribbed off others, you are demonstrating homophobic traits. A better word for it would probably be "gender-phobic," in that it isn't homosexuality that bothers you as much as guys acting effeminite whatever their actual sexuality. I can see what you mean about such an attitude being required to get ahead in your world, and you've demonstrated that you understand in other social circles, that kind of outlook is NOT conducive to advancement, so I guess I can leave it at that. Edited to add: To be exact, it isn't that you act masculine yourself that is homophobic. That's...normal doesn't even express how utterly banal and uneccessary it should be for you to say that. How you act, the face you put to the world, isn't something that should bother anyone, but I admit there are plenty who will get on your case about it. f**k em if they can't take the joke. It's your attitude towards others and their behaviors that I'm applying the great big H word to. I don't know, maybe heterophobic should be a word. It's certainly something that comes up enough, though I'm sure it'd go down about as well as "poor little rich girl" and other equivalent sayings.

Just think how boring he'd be as still someone that was bubby and happy all the time. Do you really see someone like that as a worthy foil for Will or Brad? Personalities like that are what side-kicks are for, not brothers. Now, granted, if I had to deal with JJ in real life, especially if I'd met him when I was 16 at the same time he was 14, I'd have thought longingly of burlap sacks and fast rivers. But reading about him is alright.

Homophobia is in general a confusing term. While some who are homophobic are genuinely offended/angered/sickened by homosexual acts, just as many, if not more, are less bothered by those acts but exteremely bothered by people acting outside their accustomed gender roles. You're right that most of these guys probably have insecurity issues. A lot of people do. They probably also are quite weirded out by a guy acting like a girl, or vise versa. They may think, on some level, that they are doing it on purpose. After all, they can pass, so why not everyone? I'm out at work, and I have a corporate job. It really doesn't have a big impact. I'm not shy about saying that I'm gay, but it's just not something that comes up often. I'll mention an ex-boyfriend in passing, or something like that, and that will be it. I'm not particular interested in my coworker's sex lives, so why would I talk about mine? There was this story on the radio once, that a friend of mine passed to me, about how a guy on the first day of a newjob is introduced to one of his coworkers, who tells him "I hope you don't mind, but I'm gay." The guy responds back, "I f**ked my wife in the a** last night, hope you don't mind." When my friend first told this story to a class of hers, about gay literature, the teacher came down on her, bemoaning the guy in the story as treating homosexuality as a form of kinky sex. But the thing is, to someone who isn't homosexual, that's exactly what it is. And your particular sexual kinks are for most aspects of society just not relevent. I don't pass for straight. I don't try to either. But being gay isn't something I wear on my sleeve.

Oh, it isn't the temperture that's shocking. It's the snow itself, that's pretty at first until you realize you have to shovel it. And you are going to fall on your ass until you relearn how to walk in it (though I can see that being less traumatic to JJ). And then there's how much of it you get in northern states; I've never seen more than a couple feet when I wasn't at a ski resort. JJ is going to see the snow on the ground covering his car and the side walks, consider for a moment clearing a path, then say "screw it" and go back inside for a warm drink. As "Breakaway" is one of my favorite songs, I approve. Find a reason to use "Lose Yourself."

My family's archives indicate it was all a cuning plot to get the white folk to abandon the city back to us, a plan that unfolded in the 1960s during the mass retreats to the Valley and OC. Now, if only we could get rid of the Mexicans, we'd be set. More seriously, you can see the attitude Tim mentions in most people that grew up in Los Angeles during that time, such as my parents. Now, me, I do walk everywhere I can, and really only drive to work or to leave the city. But I'm defintely bucking the trend for an LA native. Some of my friends will quite literally drive across the street. I can't see JJ staying in LA. Will and Darius, yes, provided Will can get Brad to stop trying to run their lives, but JJ has better things to do. He might stick around because our women are superfically prettier (being the plastic surgery capital of the world has it's, heh, perks), and most women wear practically nothing during most of the year, but I kind of doubt it. Paris or London sounds right for him, but Chicago is also reasonable enough. He'd be practically neighbors with Gathan there, after all. Though I'd pay money to see him deal with snow for the first time. That's always a laugh, when you see someone from LA attempt to make sense of all that white crap on the ground and I have to shovel what and oh god where is my car? Edited to add: Actually, now he's not. Gathan is much more likely now, or Zach, or one of Gathan's cousins that we possibly haven't met yet.

My guess is that Gathan got demoted in Will's mind from "Possible boyfriend" to "entertaining jackass." You may keep the later around for laughs, but aren't terribly surprised when they prove annoying from time to time. RE: chapter 4, I really liked getting WIll's perspective here, and I also liked the couple lines about his relationship with JJ. I have a cousin that's my age, and we are very different people, and while around others could hardly stand one another, in private we are (and were) quite good friends. I like that JJ has someone that won't put up with his attitude, but still likes him for himself. Will did call it that the reason Brad is pissed isn't so much that someone hurt his boy and more that he, Brad, has no control or clue over what's happening in Will's life. Without ever talking to Will or Gathan, and ignoring his own actions and attitudes during his own teenage years, he put expecations on Gathan's behavoir, and then got angry when the boy didn't follow the plan he mentally arranged for the two boys. And yeah, as a parent he has a right to know what's going on in his son's life, but that's not really something he should be yelling at Gathan for. He should be getting pissed at Will, and himself. He, after all, set the precedents during his own personal crisis that the kids have to deal with their own crap. It was necessary, but you can't really go back on that without getting some friction, which is exactly what's happening.

Florida is too flat, too humid, and has too many bugs for a Californian. Not saying it can't happen, but that'd be a really odd choice. As for beauty...have you ever been to California? San Deigo or Santa Barbara, especially?

And "I'm too sexy."

While I did mean that distance would make the relationship more difficult, I also meant that, if Will and John wanted to stay angry at each other (which looks less likely, thanks to Gathan's meddling), they could use that distance as an excuse to not see one another. It's pretty difficult to stay pissed at someone that you see every day. Eventually, you simply have better things to do than remind that certain someone they're the scum of the earth. But at a distance, it's easy to just say the hell with someone and try to never talk with them again.

I also went with 14 for both. He's going to be meeting gay men and boys his own age. He's out to his family and will probably start coming out to his friends, as well as Darius and JJ's friends. I don't think he'll be in any kind of realtionship with John, now. He'll probably be angry for a while, and they're long distance anyways. Real easy to avoid one another if they want to.

On the other hand, I can see childhood being extended to 21 pretty easily.