Roan

Thanks Jasper. Well the emotions and the physcality will continue, though not always at the same time and at this pitch. I hope you like following their journey on the way.

heh thanks Joe. I know what you feel, though you couldnt find the words to say. I get that way with my characters sometimes, I get a surge of emotion but it feels like ashes on the screen.

Thanks SC. Im glad you liked it, I wanted to start off with something that made you want to know the characters and their journey, hopefully it succeeded for you

Ties That Bind Prologue JOSH I couldn’t help it. The look on your face was priceless, and my answering grin the product of many diverse thoughts poorly captured through that simple smile. I knew you too well, too well to avoid seeing the swirling trains of thought flashing across your face. Deciphering them had become a hobby, and then through the subtle mutations only time and growing love can bring, it had become my passion, a solace to a soul that needed contact as much as fearing it. I

For Josh and Colin, life is complex enough without love intruding. But as their relationship deepens, both must take a chance and abandon their fears and the ghosts of their pasts to take the next step. Deciding to risk it all for love is one thing, but making it work is another entirely. Will they discover the ties that bind them to eachother are stronger than the ties to their own pasts and fears?

Hey All. Mark, this is for you. and there is an infinite supply where that came from. I have been really bad recently, probably the worst for several years, but I'm slowy coming out of it. Got to the point of just being curled up in a semi-comatose ball for a bit, and its frightening because I didnt know where it would end up. It really is hard to go through the peaks and troughs, to endure the worried stares, the "oh no not again", and the embarassment of succumbing again to the old demons. I am coming to realise though that ths may be the path it takes for a while, and Im getting used ot that idea and what it means. I'm also getting used to the idea that its ok to talk about it, to ask for help, and to admit where you are at. It makes it a lot easier when you can see it as part of a process leading, albeit hesitantly at times, back to better places, rather than only being able to see the darkness of the here and now. I've also come to realise how much being part of ths community has helped me reach that point. I dont feel so alone - I know that plenty like me are going through similar things, and many here like you Mark have the courage to talk about it. That is just pricless - physical isolation can sometimes be what you need when things are tough, but emotional isolation is not so good. I used to do it because I was ashamed, embarassed an afraid. I dont now because I know the people here, like you Mike, like Joe, and many others, have the courage to tell your story, to get through it, and to give love in return, and even when Im feeling apathetic there is that tangible thread of support always there. So for what its worth Mark, you have made a difference 10,000 nautical miles away without ever leaving the Moors. And thats whether you are feeling as bouncy as a lamb or as apathetic as anything - its just because of who you are. Youll be right soon enough, and meantime if you have to power down for a bit, well you maybe need to give yourself a break. We'll be there no matter what. Roan

Yeah the important thing with CBT is its the answer only to the right question, not to every question. It can help with dealing with some thought patterns, but not processing differences. Im glad youve survived that blind alley Bee. :hugs: It sort of helps me but its a long road still.

Warning - rambling discourse to follow and you will probably not agree with some of it. The thoughts are my own, and I take responsibility for them. I think part of the problem is that the one word, "Religion" is used by so many people to mean so many different things. In my experience, I have encountered two primary broad streams of "Religion". Beware horribly bad generalisations to follow. The first stresses the spiritual, the persons own path to God and coming to terms with ones own purpose in life, and the peace that comes from loving your fellow man so you may love yourself and be loved by God. FOr these people the Golden Rule is central. I have some wonderful people in this category in my life, true christians (lack of capital intended) as I see it whose presence lightens my soul. I have an Anglican minister and a Catholic nun in particular who are people I go to for guidance and support and who never fail to provide love unquestioned and unconditional and wisdom beyond price. The second stresses the centrality of division, of the chosen and the fallen, of the need to subjugate yorself utterly to teachings and structures in order to subjugate yourself to God because from that act of subjugation alone and NOT FROM HOW YOU TREAT OTHERS comes salvation. Your peace comes from knowing there are other people you can judge and others who are damned so you may be saved. I have had many people of this type in my life also, true Christians (the capital is intended) as they see themselves. Ill leave it to you to figure out what they do to my soul. For me, in the world I come from, to the extent that I have any sense of self worth it comes from how much I can bring others to see the greatness and goodness in themselves as I see it in them. The seond route repulses me and makes me burn with hate like the heat of a nova and I am too far from inner peace to go with the first. If I am anything its probably a secular humanist as some of my former acquaintences have called me more than a little mockingly. All of the above however could be classed as "religion" or religious values by various people. I do see though that the emerging trend in western churiches to Evangelical movements is a troubling development in some ways and particularly for mental health amongst the GLBT community. My experience of evangelicals has been bad I must admit, and may be mine alone, but that experience suggests that for them, the following equation occurs. 1. I feel inadequate. 2. I really would like to feel like a good person 3. Being good to other people, being kind modest etc is flipping hard though. 4. Wouldnt it be great to have a version of Christianity that makes me feel special just because I'm me and decde to be born again, and lets me look down on others because they dont AND FEEL NO GUILT. 5. Well have I got a religion for you. The teaching Ive seen seems to be summed up as almost 5 point calvinism reborn, - Only the elect are saved - The elect are predestined by God - To be the elect you need to submit and not question. - Your worth is in how much you separate yourself from others, and is defined by your submission and your committment to the Great Commission in Matthew 25, nothing else - If you work out someone you are prostelytising to isnt coming to God, shun them because they could bring you down (2 Timothy) - Otherwise its ok to be rich in a world of poverty, to not give a stuff because only your fellow elect should matter to you, not how you treat anyone else. - In particular how you demonstrate your otherness is by picking on various things you see yourself as different from and hating it, such as being Gay - this gives you a great feeling because you now get to feel superior to someone else not by having to do good things yourself but by demonising the other. In more psychological moment, I see modern evangelical Christianity as the perfect 20th century example of cognitive dissonance at work - dealing with feeelings of inadequacy caused by the gap between your aspirations and your behaviour by changing the ground rules to make it possible to be a prick and still get into heaven. The consequences for this environment for GLBT particularly youth is something Ive seen first hand and it breaks me to see it. At least for me, my depression springs from a deep wellspring of self hate, which was there even without my sexuality which merely added frosting to an allready feculent cake. But I have seen in two friends I love dearly the emotional and spiritual wasteland of the soul which comes from living in that world and believeing something about you you cannot change makes you inherently wrong and without worth, and having people who are supposed to love you hate you for it. I know that feeling, though for other reasons, and the thought that any form of organised religion could make a person feel that it is RIGHT that they be hated, abused, wounds to the core. It is this also that made me see the tolerance / acceptance divide and its importance. If there is anything my life is to be about, its hoping that noone ever feels about themselves as I do about me because of anything i've done. Thats my path to salvation. I do however gain strength and solace from those who follow the first path - and maybe I will find a way to tread it myself one day.

Thanks for the cuddle Joe! No nightmares last night, must have been too tired. My first bit of writing is up hopefully the first of many.

Glad you're sleeping Mark. Its amazing how much of a difference it makes, even a few hours. I'm sruggling at the moment, and there are always nightmares waiting for me in the middle of the night, but I'm on a farm at the moment and the peace is helping. Too much time to think is a curse sometimes. But it sort of works here. Time to read some of your work Mark and Joe. Might put better thoughts in my brain before another wrestle with the dark watches of the night. Big hugs to all Roan

For some reason this one is giving me a giggle at the moment. Probably the impending influx of wannabe Hipster types as the University year starts.

Just One Word The smell hit me first. The musty smell of an old wardrobe, clothes not worn for too long a time, and random items too important to throw out but not important enough to see the light of day. A pair of binoculars with a broken lens. The bolt from a Lee-Enfield rifle once belonging to my great-grandfather. The everyday detritus of an everyday life. It was not an everyday life, however, at least not to me. He had been my father, and now he was dead. Now it was a youngest son’s

Sometimes facing the past is the only way to move on.

I thought it was how to write goodly?

Dont worry if I see her coming at me with a nosebag im running for the hills. Apples and sugarcubes are however acceptable.

Yes its one of the hallmarks of depression - that you normalize and internalize completely screwed up thinking. Which is why talking is so important and other people are vital - you cant see your own screwed assumptions because they are second nature. It can take someone else to lift the lid and make you ask yourelf the question - maybe it dosnt have to be like this? Maybe - maybe this isnt normal? The trouble is as teenagers for example the last thing you want to do is admit a weakness. Or acknowledge that you HAVE emotions let alone ones that make you vulnerable. Fear. Sadness. Doubt. So you just pretend to everytone that everything is fine and hope noone asks difficult questions. And for adults, there are strong conformal presures too. Most adults I've talked to about this would rather be outed as gay at their workplace than as suffering depression, because employers dont know how to handle it and colleagues will avoid them in ways that are less prevalent now when sexual orientation is concerned. It has taken me years to admit what is going on in my head. And what it makes me do. And, where it comes from. And seeing it is not necessarilly the same as being able to combat it. So I guess the importance of forums like this. A way to have the impossible conversation with someone who you dont have to explain stuff to but gets what it is like; where you dont have to worry about the consequences; and where they understood that even if your thought processes may be screwed, they understand that they are real to you and cant be just changed by flicking a switch. That is sometimes the hardest - the "just snap out of it" assumption. Love your poetry Joe. You have a deep soul, keep letting it see the light of open skies. Mark keep up the amazing work. And dont let the new kitten boss you around! If you havent seen it, check out www.simonscat.com and youll probably see things that are familiar ! Roan

Hi Everyone ! Im Karl, but my friends call me Roan. Im 19, from Melbourne Australia (mostly). My nickname is due to my hair once being like the chestnut roan horse colour, and also because Im generally like a big awkward gangly skittish colt. I promise however not to bite, kick, buck or otherwise cause too many problems. And I hate oats. I am looking to get into some writing when I get up the courage to show poeple what I write, till then Im enjoying the community. Cheers

Hi Joe. First - love and hugs coming right at you. Second - thanks for being strong enough to share. Third - You wil be ok because you deserve to be ok. Finally - I think you must have the wrong Roan. Which means I must find the other one right now and kill them because there can be only one Seriously though you now know another Roan it seems, I hope I'm as nice as the other one.

Absolutely love the series, but gutted at the loss of Andy Whitfild. Only the good die young. I wouldnt put it up there with Rome but it is at least based on some of the real world of gladiators from the period, and you have to love a series which creates a new benchmark in gratuitous nudity and swearing. Plus eye candy aside Lucy Lawless and John Hannah can chew the scenery pretty well when they want. Irons could be an interesting Crassus, but Im not convinced.

Thanks so much for this thread Mark et al. I am still working my way through depression and all the underlying reasons for it. Your example of persistence love and courage helps me more than you can realise, just knowing Im not alone, and that facing it head on rather than trying to just function is possible. Roan