ret2ak

I will put my money on a heavy precious metal instead of lead in a water tank.

VERY GOOD NEWS SPITTUNE. THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW.

I should not have applied the 2% to the TAS in this rule of thumb calculation. Correcting, the IAS would then be 58 mph. Now I can not resist throwing in two more factors. The temperatures in Australia would be higher than standard and the air would be thinner making the 2% too low. Secondly the Beechcraft table says power on. Full power would make them look better (as would sea level data) with a lower stall speed at 63 mph The handbook gives power off stall at 74 mph. The story has a power setting of about 75%, The high altitude reduces power available unless it is turbocharged.

This is so much fun. Let us take C"Mitch"James at his word. Then from www.csgn.network.com/tasinfocalc.html Mathematically increase your indicated airspeed (IAS) by 2% per thousand feet of altitude to obtain the true airspeed (TAS). Direct quotes from CJames: "take into account angle of attack, 70mph, and then factor in propwash." "But the narration does not say indicated airspeed, so it means actual, so the 31% is accurate." Therefore indicated airspeed from CJ himself is lower at 56 mph. 70-2/100x10*70=56 IAS From Handbook for v35 Bonanza the V tailed version of the Debonair with almost identical characteristics: Power on stall gear and flaps up indicated air speed 63 mph. The conclusion. The Debonair is in a deep stall and falling out of the sky like Air France 447.

CJ says "But the narration does not say indicated airspeed, so it means actual, so the 31% is accurate. " That is complete and total nonsense. Mr. B's information is an indicated airspeed indicator. I am really surprised you would try to bluff your way out of this.

Roughly the airspeed indicator in the Debonair is a measure of the impact of the air on the pitot tube and airframe. The ground speed is much higher at 10000 feet. It is incorrect to reduce the impact by 31%. A second problem is that at high angles of attack the indicated airspeed is lower as less and less frontal area of the pitot tube is exposed to the airstream. Bernoulli would probably kick in and at 90 dgrees you could use the pitot tube to create a vacuum. I am glad you did the flat plate calculation. I did the same thing to try and convince the contractor to bolt my new shed to the slab. We get high winds here at the base of the Chugach Mountains in the fall.

True, the stall angle is probably 10-15 degrees and I am sure he does not want to enter a spin which the open door could precipitate. However you said the nose was dropping at the auto pilots command and Mr. B. had to fight the additional airspeed. He would have also have had additional prop blast as the nose dropped. You are a great guy and a world class spinner of tales, but the guy who throttled back the Cessna 155 may have saved your life.

Sorry about the last post. The internet is really sluggish tonight. When we were kids we used to go out to the Oklahoma City airport at night and stand at the end of the runway behind airliners as they took off. The prop blast was awesome, even with no airspeed. I also put my hand out the little side window of 2 place Tomahawks and the prop blast made me fear for my hand. So Mr. B is trying to open the passenger door and finds it difficult against a 70 mph or knot airstream. He was also fighting a 75% power prop blast because the simple auto pilot on the Debonair did not have throttle control. I seriously doubt he could have done it. If he did the increasing airspeed and prop blast would have led to serious injury when he hit the stabilizer. I should also confess that on long cross country flights I used to wad up paper and let them out the window. Some of them were half over and half under the stabilizer and did not come off until landing. I got into trouble on the previous post by quoting from Feint. You will have to look for yourself. Prop blast is never mentioned

<p>When we were kids we used to go out to the Ok

I hope you do make it Spittune. I am old enough to remember spittoons being in all sorts of places. Gov Wild Bill Murray of Oklahoma had one in his office.

Scotchirish 87 and benji mention Ned. He reminds me of an unscrupulous English colleague of mine. Projecting from him I would suggest Ned has Arnold's stash in his greedy hands. it would have been easy to find as he destroyed the bows. Ned may end up dead.

You forget the time to paddle back tto East Wallabi at 2 kts in the first part. You put a great deal of trust in your leaders? Ours is only to do and die, not to question why. CJ is a great person, a wonderful story teller and teacher. I think it is more profitable to keep him on his toes than to predict where the story is going. Have you read James Savik's Twilight? It is a masterpiece and moves at a brisk pace without losing anything.

How far was it to East Wallibi from where the sweaty Basingstoke saw Trevor get underway? On arrival he hid the raft and made his way through brush. That can be slow and how far is it to the airstrip? Meanwhile Trevor is making 16 knots or 18 mph. Lisa spots Basingstoke as they pass the airstrip. Is the sweaty Basingstoke in shape to go that fast?

Nice and informative cj. I only have an hour in a Bonanza, but lots in the Arrow. My other brother Frank was a really good pilot, but he could not land my 150 worth a damn. Crab style appraoch, hard landing and weaving from one side of the runway to the other. He was a partner in a Bonanza, but when he took me flying I was not allowed to touch the controls. He flew F86s and Globemasters for the Guard. They got about 30 hours on their low bid Globemaster engine overhauls. He said when you took off you were prepared for anything, your heart rate was 150 and you were sweating. One memorable TO from OKC they lost 2 engines to fire in 15 minutes. another time they lost two after TO from Hawaii and had to land without dumping fuel. The Guard guys were ecstatic because they landed over max wt, the gear did not collapse and they did not become a fireball. He told me lots of power from the remaining two engines allowed him to sqeak it on. They often had to fly to Vietnam in the ground effect because of lost engines. Bragging may be skipped: My private test was with a genuine FAA examiner who used to fly the mailplanes in the 1920s. He flew though canyons in heavy rain with standing water in the cockpit. He told me to return to Concord and said I passed and did not need to make the landing because of the strong crosswind. I asked to do they landing and did the wing down approach and it turned out well. I loved those old Pipers with the control stick on the axis of the plane and between your legs. Must be a gay thing! Cross wind landings felt so natural. The old guy told me he really liked my flying, I guess because he was still alive. Frank could not do that to save his life. I instructed for 4 years and decided their were two types who would kill you. The timid types who would scream at little bumps and always do the wrong thing. The second are the macho types. They are scared to death, can not show it and with great strength will try to put a wingtip into the ground on TO.

cj, like a lot of bright people you underestimate others and patronize them. Did I say anything about a fiberglass prop? No! Have you never seen an aluminum prop that a mechanic has filed the nicks out? Now why would he do that? Duh! You need to retune your sarcasm detector. Of course Australia has fighter jets. That went right over your head! A Debonair on smooth dirt would be quite different from a rough dirt road. Nose gears are not as strong as the main gear and when they collapse you may find yourself sliding forward upside down and looking backwards! My Beechcraft manual suggests landing on sod in an emergency. The Beechcraft Bonanzas and Debonairs were designed to appeal to those with money. The V tail kind of gives that away. The military version is conventional like the Debonair. Did you read about one of the Apple founders who bought a Bonanza, filled it with his friends, landed hard, then lost lateral control on takeoff and ran into a berm. As the Bonanza got larger and heavier it needed more tail surface so they added more sheet metal forward of the spar. The result was that under bad conditions the extra sheet metal would bend, changing its airfoil and making the plane uncontrollable. My brother worked for a guy who rebuilt crashed Bonanzas, three being required to make one saleable plane. Sure groundlooping is a characteristic of tail geared airplanes. It is due to the main gear being ahead of the center of gravity. My father who was not a very good pilot did one, but a bush pilot I don't think so.