Hey Green,

I'm so sorry about you and David's argument. I think he was definitely out of line calling Chaz an A@@hole for doing something NICE. And not knowing why he hates birthdays so much I can't begin to offer any insight.

However, I would guess that there's a couple of things going on here that may have led to his other remarks. Clearly he is jealous of the relationship you and Chaz have. And while I'm sure you guys don't flaunt it, just being happy is pretty noticeable. A lack of screaming and arguing is probably enough to irritate someone you live with who is having serious relationship difficulties. There's nothing you can do about that. The problem is his not yours. I certainly wouldn't recommend you and Chaz start fighting so that he and Rob feel better.

The other thing I'm guessing is that you really did strike a nerve the other night when you made the remark about them just breaking up already. It's good that you apologized, but you can't exactly "take it back", and there's no way of knowing how upset or hurt David (or Rob) might have been. Especially is you're right, and they are close to calling the whole thing off. Weren't they good friends before they started dating? It's probably a very complicated and confusing time for them. If they do break up things can never go back to the way it was between them. It'll always be a little different. It'll also be different between them and the rest of you guys. In a normal break up everyone can just retreat to their close friends for more or less unconditional support (most people just agree with their friend regardless of the actual situation). But here with them sharing so many close friends, lots of insecurities are bond to crop up. I also doubt you'd really want to be in the middle of their break up. So in general I'd say David was upset because he really is worried about an immanent break up and the repercussions involved.

My advice, for what it's worth, blow off his out of line remarks (after all YOU know they aren't true), apologize again for any offense you might have given. Be there for him (and Rob), if they need you, but mostly try to stay out of their arguments. And most importantly give Chaz a big hug and kiss and realize how lucky you are.

Good luck,

Kevin

I have a feeling that alot of people are going to be playing arm chair psychologist for you in the coming replies to your post, so I feel a little less guilty for doing it. But I do just want to state that clearly I'm not a trained professional, and though I do seem to have a good track record with giving out advice, the possibility that what I am about to say could be the most usless garbage advice ever in the history of people meddling in other people's lives is there.

You think. Alot. It's hard enough for humans to be reasonable as it is, but when they're angry, forget it.

It seems to me that a person's first instinct when they have been hurt is to hurt whoever hurt them back. It's a pretty bad system, but most people seem to have adopted it. I know telling you not to take his comments to heart is pointless because, well, how can you not? But it seems to me like his motivation was to strike back by any means nescessary. He probably realized this would strike a chord with you, and that's why he used it against you. He also hopefully realizes how stupid a decision that was on his part, and regrets it deeply. People say ridiculous things that they don't (entirely) mean in fits of anger. Personally I would have taken infinitely more offense to it if he had said it casually in passing, like it was just common knowledge. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is really do some soul searching and asess the situation. Look at the fight itself, look at your motivations for doing what you did, and then look at his, look at your friendship, look at if you want to loose this person or not. I mean, I could be entirely off base here, but he did call Selene which makes me think that he was worried about you, which translates into him still caring. There's alot of things to think about, so get cracking.

You calm down and clear your head.

It's like I mentioned previously; it seems like a person's natural reaction to being hurt is to strike back. And while it's satisfying in the moment, it doesn't lead to a big picture solution. Take some time. Calm yourself down enough so that when you see him again your first instinct isn't to beat the snot out of him while verbally ticking off a list of why he fails at life.

You talk to him.

Maybe I'm a little too idealistic (or maybe it's that damn gemini in me), but I tend to believe that almost anything can be resolved by talking through it. Communication is key to all healthy relationships. Let him know how you feel, find out how he feels, appologize for what you regret saying or doing, and hope he does the same. You can gracefully accept (or reject) his appology if one is offered, and if it isn't you can't exactly force him to appologize, but you can express how hurt you are by his actions, which hopefully will give him something to think about. You're never going to know what he is thinking or feeling unless you talk to him.

You (try to) forgive him.

You said yourself that you can't forgive this one. I'm a bit conflicted because I want to be completely idealistic and scream at the top of my lungs anything can be forgiven and you can forgive anyone, but I would be a hippocrit, because I know exactly what it is like to want to forgive someone but being completely unable to do so. That's how I am with my father. I want to forgive him for the years of abuse he put us as a family through, I want to find it in myself to forgive him for that and be the better person, but (as of yet) I still can't. The cut is too fresh, the wound is too deep, and I just can't seem to. But I'm trying. Will I ever be able to forgive him for everything he has done? Hopefully yes, but the reality of the situation is probably no. But I am becoming more at peace with it. I don't just hang up on him anymore. I don't blatantly ignore him when I see him in public. No I'm not making any special effort to see him or talk to him, hell I still have a hard time having a civil conversation with him, but I'm trying. The last conversation I had with him included this little snippet which might be helpful:

Him: "I guess now I have to live with the mistakes that I made for the rest of my life."

Me: "Yes, you do."

I didn't elaborate, I didn't go any further but it got me to thinking that he realizes what he did was wrong (maybe not completely but at least he doesn't blindly deny it and pass the blame off on us like he used to) and that's the most he can do. Now forgiving him is on me. That's something I have to do. And only time will tell if I can. And only time will tell if you can forgive your friend. Like I said before; the cut is too fresh and the wound is too deep, but maybe someday all that'll be left is a small scar in a good friendship.

Anyway I appologize for being entirely too long winded, but I hope maybe some of this may help.

Green...I am so so sorry that you are hurting right now. It sucks when someone you love, you trust and who you share your life with, turns around and hurts you. I think the pain worse because we have let them in, past all the brick walls that we erect to protect our hearts.

You said that David is like family...families are notorious for causing pain to each other. And we usually do it without realising it.

Caipirinha is righ when he said that you will probably get a lot of advice in replies. Though most replies will be good and of some use, you will have to sift through them all to find out what suits your situation the best.

Green, I don't know what else to say...

But, I think you will have to ultimately ask yourself some questions...

Can you forgive David for what he said about you and about Chaz?

Is your relationship with David worth all the stress he is putting you through?

Do you feel that David has betrayed you?

Do you feel that you have emotional supported David and he stabbed you in the back?

Wouldn't it would be nice if we had the ability to turn back time and things that we said or did and things that were said to us or done to us would have never existed.

You are probably going through a tangle of emotions right now: anger, loss, betrayal, grief, abandonment and disapointment may be part of them. Don't let yourself be run over by them, Green. Take your time and think fully over what you want to do. Be honest with yourself. Remember that the emotions that you are feeling are appropriate and that there is nothing wrong with any or all of them. It is so easy to say 'forgive David' but that is easier said than done....and if you think you can forgive him, you have to come to that decision yourself. And that forgiveness, can take time...just an "I'm sorry" may not be enough for you. Even if you think your relationship with David can survive this, it may still take a long time before you can trust him again.

Green, as I said before, I am so sorry that things are going so badly with your relationship with David, and that you are hurting so much, especially as things are going so well with you and Chaz and that you were planning something special for your anniversary.

Bev

Emotionless would be the word I feel right now. I came home and david was packing to leave. I saw it in his eyes, he felt ashamed. I took everything you guys told me and I did approach him trying to understand where he was coming from. I walked yto wards him and I gave him a huge hug. He tried to pull away but I just held him.

"No," I said. "We cant end it like this. Talk to me alright."

He was crying and he tried to get away from me again but he finally broke down. "Rob's been cheating on me," he said. It all kind of came into perspective right then and there. I held tighter and brought him to the couch where he finally told me the whole story.

Apparently he had found Rob and this other guy together and Rob lied. David gave Rob the benefit of the doubt but when he found them together again the other day he had enough. I guess Chaz had also seen them together and he had been talking to David about it. David asked Chaz not to say anything to us. Well Rob is persona non grata around here.

I also feel pretty stupid, I should have known that David was just lashing out, but it took me by surprise. I explained this to him and postponed my anniversary so I could hang out with David. He needed a friend. To my surprise Chaz wanted to be here also. So were mending little by little right now over a big birthday cake.

GREEN

Hi,

I don't know you (yet) and I don't know the backstory behind all this, but I just want to say that when people are feeling angry or they're hurting they often say things they don't mean. It's no excuse, but it's a fact of life. If he's a true friend then he'll feel guilty about this and want to apologise and you'll let him at least try. Don't throw away a friendship because your friend has had a moment of idiocy.

You're right to feel angry and hurt and unlike him you did the right thing by walking away before you said something you couldn't take back. Give yourself a chance to calm down and then see how you really feel about it. It sounds like the two of you have been through a lot and you need to think carefully before giving up on a friendship like that. The trust will take a while to get back, but if you're willing and you both make the effort you can both recover from this.

Even the closest of friends can be assholes at times, but true friends will always find a way to forgive eventually.

Rob

Green, you made a tough decision to go back and talk to David. You should be proud of yourself. A lot of people would have held onto the resentment but you didn't... You deserve a big hug and a pat on the back.

And, who knows, your relationship with David may be all the more stronger after this.

Can I say congratulations on having such a great boyfriend in Chaz? He has stuck around and supported your friendship with David. And in doing so, he is supporting David too! He seems to be still surprising you with his depths and compassion. He deserves a great big hug.

And poor David. No wonder he lashed out at you. That old cliche about 'hurting people hurt people' rings true again. I just want to give David a big hug too.

all around...

And my best hopes and wishes to you Green, and to David and Chaz. I hope everything continues to work out with you guys.

Bev

Green, you made a tough decision to go back and talk to David. You should be proud of yourself. A lot of people would have held onto the resentment but you didn't... You deserve a big hug and a pat on the back.

Amen.

I'm glad things are starting to mend. :-)

Way to go Green!!

I hope David is ok. Best of luck.