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Old vs New

Billy Martin

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President Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.
President Bartlet: Yes, it does. Leviticus.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.
President Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I’m interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or is it okay to call the police?

Here’s one that’s really important ’cause we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town: Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point?

Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side?

Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?

 

What Bartlet says in this TV show, is indeed chapter and verse. Further, the point he is making is a very valid point. A point I too hold. For whatever reason, that was the law, but then the law was fulfilled.

 

I once prayed for God to let me know if being gay, active or inactive, was a sin. A three word verse came to me as my answer.

 

God is love.

 

Peace

Billy

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This really is an American thing (problem?). EXAMPLE a  survey shows 35% of Americans read Bible verse at least once a week, one third of the country! Compare that to 6% British who read the Bible, attend church, and whom you might define as practicing Christians.

 

In summary: most Europeans don't pay any attention to the Bible and are not concerned by what it says or doesn't say. Whereas a very large number of Americans might be viewed from this side of the Atlantic as religious fanatics that pursue a life style influenced excessively by Christianity, something difficult to relate to in the 21st Century.

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That is so sad you see it as a possible problem, but very believable by some actions and inaction.  To me, and I am truly only speaking for myself, the century is irrelevant. When I look around the forests, the mountains, a simple small brook, I see all the small and large creatures and plants that inhabit them. I look up at night and see the billions and billions of stars that make up the visible universe, and my spirit crys out at the majesty of creation. Yes, creation. For no one can ever convince me that everything is all a fortuity occurrence. However, I also choose to respect everyone's beliefs, unlike some.

 

I must question your statement concerning "most Europeans." Are you including Eastern Europeans? Furthermore, to me "living a life style influenced by Christianity" mean two things and two things only. Love the Creator of this amazing universe with all your heart and love your fellow man. Tell me kind sir, how is that hard to relate to with the world we live in today?

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Sometimes we just have to accept we cannot understand everything quite yet. There are things we don't have the technology and ability to understand, and we should continue striving to eventually understand them. I think it's irrational in this day in age to still believe the stories 2,000 year old nomads made up to explain the unexplainable. I mean, what makes Christianity special from the thousands of others? Nothing really. It simply got adopted by the right cultures that, by chance, flourished long enough to pass it on. People hate uncertainty so they look for anything, however delusional, to explain it. They are terrified of death, so they desperately look for stories that tell them that death is not the end. It conveniently explains away our most basic human fears, which is why so many people find comfort in it and cling to it despite it being simply made up. Life is nothing but chance, luck, and meaningless existence. I feel sorry for people who live their life in fear of a magical man in the sky in hopes that it'll be better in the "afterlife". You only get one shot on this Earth, so it's foolish to waste it.

 

As to the actual lines from The West Wing, it does a perfect job of illustrating the ridiculousness of taking the Bible literally. It also points out the obvious a-la-carte picking and choosing many Christians do when deciding what constitutes morality "according to the Bible". 

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Man has in the name of God brought Hell to earth for millions of people, but it was man. Many things in the Bible may be actual events or they may be parables, like Jesus of Nazareth used to teach. Which is which, I can't claim to know.

 

Many of us have been demonized by the"Church". The very Church that is suppose to be the body of Christ, full of love and compassion for EVERYONE, non-judgemental, and protector of the weak. Yet that church has vociferated on the perceived sin of homosexuality while ignoring the fact that everyone single person sitting in every church are sinners. My own father once told he only hated three types of people, liars, thieves, and queers. I still haven't gotten completely over that sex talk.

 

Science is apparently proving more and more everyday the validity of recorded events in the Bible. The very theory of the Big Bang, something from nothing, creation, is basically what Genesis recorded. I myself have no way to prove anything. I do have faith. I do love God. I do love all of you and I try very very hard not to judge, but I am human, I do fail. The difference between Christianity and most other religions, I can have forgiveness. We all can.

 

Love you guys!

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10 hours ago, TetRefine said:

Life is nothing but chance, luck, and meaningless existence. .......... You only get one shot on this Earth, so it's foolish to waste it.

 

No it isn't, I disagree. There is chance and luck and all sorts of twists and turns in life, but it is not meaningless. You have this life to live, but that is not all there is. Life is a journey from the cradle to the grave and one where it is encombrant upon you to make the best of it that you can, to not be selfish and to try to be good in all things. 'Do the right thing,' is not a few words to be taken lightly. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare - Hamlet.

We are all seekers of the light, and that includes everyone whether you realise it or not. 

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6 hours ago, William King said:

 

No it isn't, I disagree. There is chance and luck and all sorts of twists and turns in life, but it is not meaningless. You have this life to live, but that is not all there is. Life is a journey from the cradle to the grave and one where it is encombrant upon you to make the best of it that you can, to not be selfish and to try to be good in all things. 'Do the right thing,' is not a few words to be taken lightly. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. William Shakespeare - Hamlet.

We are all seekers of the light, and that includes everyone whether you realise it or not. 

 

I think we have fundamentally different views on the chance/purpose of life. Like I kind of said in my post above, I believe we simply ended up alive and here as we perceive it by total chance. Out of the infinite chances of things that could happen in the universe, we simply ended up "lucky" enough to have our dice rolled. I also don't believe their is a true purpose or meaning to life either. I full heartedly believe we create our own meaning as a way to cope with our inability to accept we are nothing but a random chance. It's not a bad thing either. The purpose I create for myself is intensely personal and reflects me and me only. Same for everyone else. The rules we mostly play by were again put in place so we could function past our most basic survival instincts. Just a thought. 

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On 5/19/2018 at 1:58 AM, William King said:

This really is an American thing (problem?). EXAMPLE a  survey shows 35% of Americans read Bible verse at least once a week, one third of the country! Compare that to 6% British who read the Bible, attend church, and whom you might define as practicing Christians.

 

In summary: most Europeans don't pay any attention to the Bible and are not concerned by what it says or doesn't say. Whereas a very large number of Americans might be viewed from this side of the Atlantic as religious fanatics that pursue a life style influenced excessively by Christianity, something difficult to relate to in the 21st Century.

Here in America, we have an entire section of the country labeled "The Bible Belt" primarily in the South and Southeast.  In these places, it is not uncommon for people to ask you what church you go to, and where I grew up, you better say Baptist.      

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43 minutes ago, TetRefine said:

Out of the infinite chances of things that could happen in the universe, we simply ended up "lucky" enough to have our dice rolled.

I don't think we have fundementally different ideas, we are looking at things from a different angle, that's all. "We simply ended up 'lucky' enough to have our dice rolled." I'm not picking you up on phraseology, but that does kind of beg the question - who rolled the dice! But I get what you are saying, it's random chance that we are here. However, there is one big question, do you have an immortal soul?

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