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Apparently I'm an evil sexist man for daring to have an opinion on abortion


Demetz

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I think abortion should be permissible in such cases as where the woman's life is endangered by the pregnancy or when raped. I'm also against elective abortion morally, but unwilling to make it illegal.

 

I hesitate on the issue of abortion for two reasons: 1) The child is conceived without his or her own consent and is innocent, punishing the child with death for a parent's mistake is cruel. 2) The morning after pill can prevent conception and thus make the question of elective abortion irrelevant... if the couple does not want a child they can preven the pregnancy from ever ocurring in the first place between the various forms of birth control.

 

However, I recognize that in cases of rape specifically, the woman may be too traumatized to think to get the morning after pill or too conflicted to make the decision to take it. Also, I recognize that so long as the state foster care and adoption agencies are overrun the state can not take on responsibility for the child and so long as that is the case it has no business mandating on its own grounds whether a child shall be brought to term.

 

Yet, as an especially evil dominating monstrous man I bitterly contest the idea that it should be the woman's choice alone to carry a child to term when the pregnancy comes about as a result of consensual sex. The father should have a say. It takes two people to conceive a child, and its no secret that sex produces children, nor is birth control any mystery. The choice to have unprotected male to female sex is made on the understanding that a pregnancy may occur. Both parties know this, both carry the responsibility of the decision to keep the child or not. If the mother wants to keep the child, there is no question in current society that she should keep be allowed to carry the child to term whether or not the father wants to. Yet if a father wishes to keep the child and the mother wants to abort, the father has no recourse. I see that as injustice. That I see this as injustice apparently makes me an evil sexist pig of a man. If so, I offer no apology for it and embrace it. If the father wishes to have the child and the mother does not, the child should be brought to term, then full custody granted to the father and the mother released from all obligations or right to the child. Similarly, if the woman wants the child and the man does not, then the man should cede all custody to the woman and be free of all obligations to the child. Now I'm a really evil sexist chauvanistic pig.

 

Of course, all the opinions I've expressed here would be perfectly legitimate if I had a vagina. Alas, I have a cock and balls and am therefore an evil seixt chauvanistic blah blah blah.

 

When do I, as a man, lose respect for women? When they decide I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I have a different set of genitalia.

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Dude, a little defensive are we??? :P

 

Sexist or not, you're entittled to your opinion. I struggled with this issue myself for a long time. On the one hand, I have a deep respect for human life, it's a kind of humility, I think; on the the other, there is nothing that makes us more uniquely human than our freedom to choose, especially on issues involving our own well being. Yes, the immovable force meets the irresistible force.

 

I believe that safe medical abortions should be available to women who make that choice...subject to the usual age of the foetus restrictions. I also support organizations who provide education and counselling services for women considering an abortion. Their decision should be an informed decision as much as possible.

 

As to the "father" involved having a say, I support that in principle, but I would by no means legalize it. The final call rests with the women.

 

Conner

 

P.S. You evil sexist man!!! You're cute, though. :D

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*takes a deep breath*

 

I believe when a man has sex with a woman he is giving her his sperm (and whatever diseases) as a "gift without contemplation", thus, by accepting his sperm she makes no legal contract with him giving up sovereignty over her body. Like it or not, it is hers now. Hence, a man's only say on the issue of abortion is whether he stays in the relationship or moves on. HIS input is merely part of the emotional relationship they have.

 

I do not believe that zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and possibly fetuses are Human Beings.

 

I believe that every human being has the inalienable right to have a parasite removed from their body via modern medical practices as decided by the patient and their doctor, even if they had fun and acted stupid to get that parasite in the first place. I drank untreated water in the Sierra Nevadas once, I got giardia, I knew the dangers, I was having fun, and I also did everything I could to get that critter and all his friends out of me as soon as I got home without worrying about what Mr. giardia thought about it. But I guess that is ok, because giardia doesn't have the label "potential human being" and I didn't get it via failed protective or unprotected sex.

 

I don't hold humans as having any "special" place on this planet, or this universe for that matter. If anything, Agent Smith was right, we are a virus infecting this universe.

 

rape, incest, blah, blah, blah, are just red herrings to ramp up the emotional content of what really is a contract law and medical problem.

 

As one of my favorite bumper stickers says: "Against Abortion? Don't have one"

 

But I also believe I have the right to have an opinion about it, regardless of what others think.

 

:king: Dr. Mr. Snow "Snoopy" Dog

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Yet, as an especially evil dominating monstrous man I bitterly contest the idea that it should be the woman's choice alone to carry a child to term when the pregnancy comes about as a result of consensual sex. The father should have a say. It takes two people to conceive a child, and its no secret that sex produces children, nor is birth control any mystery. The choice to have unprotected male to female sex is made on the understanding that a pregnancy may occur. Both parties know this, both carry the responsibility of the decision to keep the child or not. If the mother wants to keep the child, there is no question in current society that she should keep be allowed to carry the child to term whether or not the father wants to. Yet if a father wishes to keep the child and the mother wants to abort, the father has no recourse. I see that as injustice. That I see this as injustice apparently makes me an evil sexist pig of a man. If so, I offer no apology for it and embrace it. If the father wishes to have the child and the mother does not, the child should be brought to term, then full custody granted to the father and the mother released from all obligations or right to the child. Similarly, if the woman wants the child and the man does not, then the man should cede all custody to the woman and be free of all obligations to the child. Now I'm a really evil sexist chauvanistic pig.

 

Dude! I couldn't agree with you more! :worship:

 

I've always felt this way! And what pisses me off even more is how blatantly unfair the system is with regards to men's rights to custody, and even worse the limited options single men that want to be parents face! It's completely possible for a single mother to decide "well I want to have a child now" and she'll damn well have it (which is awesome of course), but a single man can't just up and decide "well I want to have a child now" :angry:

 

I'm a rabid feminist, but I'm also a rabid "masculinist" and the God's honest truth is that men face a hell of a lot of discrimination in society and none more prevalent than where children are concerned!

 

Just why should the woman have the final say, Conner?

 

And, Snowy, I do not enter into that kind of contractual arrangement with women. I mean I don't anyway since I don't sleep with them, but if I did it would be with the understanding that any life created is our equal responsibility and privilege. I'm not "giving" her my sperm, I'm making an investment, and if that investment proves fruitful I damn well want my share!

 

Anyway, I won't even go into my opinions about abortion (which are probably more or less in line with yours perhaps a bit more pro-choice), but regardless of what abortion's ultimate fate will be the only fair circumstance is one in which both parties are a part of the decision making process.

 

-Kevin

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This is a hot button issue on which some people are not completely rational. However, since someone has been brave enough to raise the issue, I'd like to say a few words on what I think.

 

Abortion rates are too high.

 

I think each abortion is a tragedy in one respect or another, but I wouldn't legislate against them. There are definitely circumstances where they can be justified, such on health grounds or in the case of rape, as Demetz has mentioned. There is another circumstance where I would look closely before making a judgement call, and that is with teenage pregnancies. This is a loophole in Dr. Mr. Snow Dog's commentary about it really being about contract law -- underage teenagers are not legally capable of entering into such a contract.

 

What tends to be neglected in the debate is other methods of handling unwanted pregnancies. The biggest and simplest method is better sex education. Prevention is better than an abortion. If people clearly understood the options available, the number of unwanted pregnancies should reduce. If people really want to reduce abortion rates, then they should be supporting better sex education.

 

As for the father having no say, I agree that the father should have some say. However, it can not equal to that of the mother, simply because the father does not have to bear the burden of carrying the baby for nine months. The two sides of the equation are not equal. How to balance the two is not something I believe I can solve. After all, if the father wants to keep the child and the mother doesn't, what is the compensation for the mother rearing the child for nine months before it is born?

 

On a side note, for those who publicly state that abortion is murder because a fetus is a human being from the time of conception, then this means that miscarriages should be recorded as deaths and treated accordingly legally and morally (including the "right" to a religious funeral, if that religion believes that the fetus is a human being). This doesn't seem to be the case. My own views as to when an unborn child is a "human being" is a private matter -- partially because they are not well defined.

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