MESSAGE BOARD TOPIC #35

[Comicality]

As we have stressed many times in the past, feedback is definitely the only real 'food' that an author has to live on. Or for ANY artist looking to express a piece of himself in front of the masses. And not just loads of GOOD feedback, while it's greatly appreciated and truly inspiring. Sometimes questions and criticisms are needed too. It's a necessary part of finding the holes in what you do and fixing them up as best as you can.

 

However, there's a line. Right? There's GOTTA be. Sometimes, criticisms can sting a little bit when referring to something you put your heart and soul into. But that's not always the fault of a sensitive artist. Some comments are just plain mean. I've had some online authors tell me about some of the mail they've gotten, I've talked to them about some of the mails I've gotten...and there are folks out there who (whether intentionally or unintentionally) rip into your work with VERY sharp teeth and cover it with a smile. Some nit pick, some are simply not 'into' what you're writing about, and some are just plain mean spirited. So...this week's question is...

 

=Where is the line drawn between 'constructive criticism' and 'flames from hell'?=

 

When getting or giving feedback, what is helpful and what is harmful? Have you experienced negative emails about something you wrote? Have you written negative emails of your own, or had your feedback misinterpreted by an author you were trying to compliment? Is it the way we 'phrase' certain things that makes it sound so bad? And how do you know what to take as an honest criticism or a problem in your work...and what to toss aside as a vicious rant from a critic who gets more out of tearing someone down than helping them to get better?

 

Let us know what you think about those feedback letters folks! The board is open!

[Crackerwriter]

Funny you should mention feedback - I haven't had a single bit since I came on this site, yet I've had a lot of hits there and people have been reading the stories. (I hope).

 

Strangely, mostly the only severe critisism I get is from Lynne, (ic50) who's got so far 'into' the stories, she's sorted out every little niggle that I've managed to get wrong. A few blundering errors I corrected before I re-posted here on GA. I managed to get two characters at two different places at the same time! Not good!

 

Apart from that I think I only ever had one really scathing email, so I took on board what he was saying, but din't take it to heart. That's a definite no-no. It can put a writer off for good. Not me, I must have a thick neck! I think as long as the critisism is justified, then fair enough, but people should never knock a fantasy story too much, because what's real to one person, may just not be for another.

 

Real stories are a different thing. If the reader doesn't want to believe you, tough. That's up to them.

 

I tend to write with a 'fly-on-the-wall' style mostly, but with the central character's thoughts written down as a plot to maintain continuity and develop the character.

Mostly it's me anyway - oh gloom what am I divulging here? - or written in the first person maybe.

 

So the crux of the matter is, be fair in your critisism, but don't batter the poor author under the table with a baseball bat. He/she is only trying their best to please the majority of readers. After all, most of us are only amateur writers. (I can think of a very few who ought to take it up professionally mind you). And did you have to pay to read it? No. So why moan so loudly?

[Guest jamieanderson]

I went in to this game expecting flames, but they never arrived. I

[Ibsu]

Oh, I posted the first chapter of a novel I wrote, having written the entire rough draft and thinking I was going to post as I edited.

 

(The problem, of course, is I came across a plothole that took months to resolve, and now I'm having to do a complete rewrite.)

 

But, I got three email. Four were positive, and the fifth was negative. However, he didn't bother to complain about the story. No, he was offended by my disclaimer!

 

Oh, and the offending line? "Kiddies, read your Bible like mom and dad say, or you'll burn in Hell like me." Now, I've said many insensitive things about Christianity, having left the religion a few years ago, but I didn't think of this as a pointed attack.

 

This was from a man self-described as over 50 years old. *shrug*

[Guest Cookie]

The line? Umm... before all the swearing and name calling I'd say.

 

Seriously though, I'm scared to death about feedback. Every time I check my email and see that little message that tells me I have a review, I get shaky and nervous. That's because, my first ever review was something along the lines of my story writing being so bad that I should throw myself off a cliff and die, and that I'm a disgrace to all authors out there... kinda creepy that was, and it really didn't help with the low self-esteem that I had in my story writing abilities.

 

I nearly gave up writing for good because of that review, but I didn't and I've continued. I've found what I'm good at and I've stuck with it and tried to improve on it. Now whenever I update, I get nothing but good reviews. So that helps my confidence a lot.

 

But I still get constructive criticism and I like them, they help me out a lot, some are a little harsh but I look past it and look more to what they are suggesting to improve the story. If it's in my power to improve how they suggest, then I do.

 

So basically I think that the line is where they stay kind to you and don't rip the story up into tiny little shreds along with your heart. I love story writing and I want to always continue it, no matter what people say about them.

[Comicality]

I've had my share of flames, believe me! Some of the most hateful ones though were written in all caps and had the spelling ability of some backyard mountain hillbilly! Hehehe! But in all honesty, that took some getting used to, and at first those emails REALLY hurt. Especially the whole "You like teens, you sick f**K!" type of emails. Some were put on my board in the past, some were left on the guestbook...it would usually stop me from writing completely for a few days. But much like Cookie stated above, it was important for me to keep going, and try to pay attention to the good reviews too. Which isn't easy. Sometimes one harsh email can ruin 10 good ones. You know?

 

I haven't received letters with such intolerance in a long time though. And I think it's a little more 'accepted' (and I use that term loosely) than it was three or four years ago. Nowadays, my feedback is much more constructive.

 

Where is the line? It's hard to tell. Sometimes it's all in the way the feedback is phrased. There's a big difference in hearing, "I was kinda confused when..." and having somebody say, "What the hell were you talking about?" Sometimes they'll say "I've seen you do better." and other times they'll just say "I hated this one." There's a negative vibe that comes from certain words or emails. Especially if I put my heart into it. To have it called 'stupid' or 'lame' or say 'I hated this character'...yeah, it stings a bit worse.

 

Now, anyone who has ever recieved a story review from me personally, they'll tell you that I always tell them 'the good', 'the bad', and 'the ugly'. The good stuff, meaning what I liked about the story. The bad, meaning what I thought they should put more detail into or should expand on. And the ugly, meaning stuff to watch out for while writing future chapers or whatever. I'll always be 100% honest about how it was, but it would be pointless for me to just say I hated it and send that to an author, knowing that it would accomplish nothing more than hurting their feelings. If there was something I didn't like, I'd tell them what confused me, or what parts of the story jumped around a bit, or which characters came off as unlikable or a bit stiff. But it's all in the interest of letting the writer know what I'm thinking as a reader. Not just to piss him off or run him out of the writing business. There are people who get paid millions of dollars to write professionally, and I never liked anything they wrote. Hehehe, but SOMEBODY out there must be eating it up!

 

I guess that it can be a sensitive thing to try to find the constructive parts of an email and toss out the other stuff. The only thing that makes it better for me is knowing how much work really goes into writing a story from beginning to end. That's why it's an EXTRA honor to hear that another author liked something I wrote. I have emails from Dean Lidster and Jaxsper Finn and some others that I've saved for years. These are people I truly admire. (Writer's in general I mean) But there also some emails that I get where I have to sorta use a bit of 'judgement' when reading them. Especially with stuff like "GFD" or "My Only Escape" or "New Kid". I appreciate the comments with all my heart, but sometimes I can't let folks nitpick until I start to doubt what my original feeling was in writing them out. Or I might have to tune out a few emails from folks who want to somehow 'control' what they read next. They're not being rude, it's just a matter of remaining the only person at the controls here and trying to do what I do without much inteference from the peanut gallery. So I try to gauge what I can from their reaction, and use what I can to grow as much as I can as a writer from what they give me.

 

I guess that means the line varies between readers and writers alike.

[JulienGregg]

I have both sent and received feedback, but I don't recall ever saying anything negative to an author. If I don't like the story, I won't finish it, and I certainly won't email the author to tell him why I don't like the story. I think that's just childish.

 

I recently received an email from some guy who told me he doesn't like the main character of my story. He listed the reasons for not liking him, and the email was very long. At first I thought about changing the character to suit this one individual, but then I came to my senses. After all, its "my" story.

 

I think that feedback is important, but most of it shouldn't be taken too much to heart. The positive feedback can be as damaging as the negative. If a person likes your story so much that he emails every day to give you more and more reasons for liking it, you tend to get bored. If that same person hates the story and emails every day to tell you again and again, then I'd just ingore his email address.

 

That doesn't mean that I don't like feedback. I post my story on the net specifically for the feedback. I try very hard not to let flames bother me, and if I catch myself reading the email more than once, I mentally kick myself for it. Don't give the flames so much power over you. Its your story, and if they don't like it, they should stop reading it!

[Radames]

If an author asks for feedback, I feel obligated to provide an honest opinion. If I don't like something, I try to follow this outline:

 

Say something nice

Say something constructive

Say something else nice

 

If I cannot come up with two nice things to say about a story, I probably won't respond to the author. But then I'll feel guilty. How hard can it be to come up with two nice things to say!

[ethan thorn]

Well since i have had no bad or good for that matter any feedback on my story well - the you really need to work on your grammer so i guess i dont have much to say about what is and is not flameing.