Tee Shirt Controversy

[Jack Scribe]

Right On Mom

By Dan Savage

 

Remember the mom in Portland that came out swinging in defense of her high-school age daughter after she was kicked off a bus for kissing another girl? Well, she

[Adrian Michaels]

That's totally kick-ass. Yay for straight people.

 

I WANT one of those shirts... *grumble8

[Menzoberranzen]

Very few things set me off to the point where I will make an on-the-spot scene, but this is one of those issues. I'm not one of those wingnuts who advocates the right to wear/say whatever I goddamn please wherever I goddamn please, but that shirt was in no way offensive, provocative or 'disruptive.' And if it is, than so are enviornmentally-friendly shirts, SPCA shirts and AIDS ribbons.

 

Good for her for not taking off the shirt.

 

Menzo

[rknapp]

That's totally kick-ass. Yay for straight people.

 

I WANT one of those shirts... *grumble8

I've GOT one of those shirts

 

You can get one at www.gayfinebyme.org

[dkstories]

I still like a shirt I bought so many years ago and rarely wear:

 

So Many Right Wing Christians

So few lions

[AFriendlyFace]

Good for her!

 

 

I've GOT one of those shirts

 

You can get one at www.gayfinebyme.org

 

I was just thinking that, Robbie! Are these new or something? It struck me as a big coincidence that they should crop up suddenly in two threads at the same time!

 

I kinda like them. I think I'd rather have one that said "Gay? Me too!", but I guess they don't make those

 

-Kevin

[rknapp]

"gay? fine by me." is one of those donation organizations. All proceeds go to a group, I forget what though. The information is all at the website.

[colinian]

I've GOT one of those shirts

 

You can get one at www.gayfinebyme.org

 

I still like a shirt I bought so many years ago and rarely wear:

 

So Many Right Wing Christians

So few lions

 

OK, what I want is a black T with "gay? fine by me" on the front, and "So many Right Wing Christians, So few lions" on the back.

 

 

Colin

[rknapp]

I'm sure you can have that made at any t-shirt shop. At least, open-minded ones. Just be sure there are no copyrights on those slogans.

[Kurt]

Just wanted to let you know that the website is www.finebyme.org.

[Adrian Michaels]

I have buttons that say this, but I've always wanted shirts that say,

 

"Proud Member of the Immoral Minority" and "Doing my part to piss off the religious right"

[AFriendlyFace]

So Many Right Wing Christians

So few lions

OK, what I want is a black T with "gay? fine by me" on the front, and "So many Right Wing Christians, So few lions" on the back.

Colin

"Proud Member of the Immoral Minority" and "Doing my part to piss off the religious right"

 

No offense to anyone who posted, indeed I'm sure you're all aware that I regard you very highly, but those strike me as so divisive. Shouldn't we instead be acting to gently heal the wounds and smooth things over?

 

I'd much whether conduct myself with kindness, grace, and dignity and make someone shrug and question their beliefs versus needlessly pissing them off and further proving their point (at least in their own minds).

 

Just my thoughts,

Kevin

[Menzoberranzen]

I agree with Kevin.

 

Here is a quote I love, from Ayn Rand, that I posted once before here.

 

"The evil in this world is made possible by only the sanction you give it."

 

Menzo

[Matthew]

I still like a shirt I bought so many years ago and rarely wear:

 

So Many Right Wing Christians

So few lions

 

 

While I'm sure it's made in jest, I don't see how these kind of shirts help anything. I don't see it as any more acceptable to do, or suggest doing, that to those who hold views different than your own than for the same to us.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Matthew

[NaperVic]

I still like a shirt I bought so many years ago and rarely wear:

 

So Many Right Wing Christians

So few lions

 

 

While I'm sure it's made in jest, I don't see how these kind of shirts help anything. I don't see it as any more acceptable to do, or suggest doing, that to those who hold views different than your own than for the same to us.

 

The shirts help bring awareness of the plight of lions and threats to their numbers.

 

For more information, see http://www.savethelions.org/

[AFriendlyFace]

The shirts help bring awareness of the plight of lions and threats to their numbers.

 

For more information, see http://www.savethelions.org/

 

You're right, Vic! The lions are having enough trouble as it is without having to worry about choking on homophobes!

[97a]

I'd much whether conduct myself with kindness, grace, and dignity and make someone shrug and question their beliefs versus needlessly pissing them off and further proving their point (at least in their own minds).

 

That's a nice thought and all but:

If you follow that logic, then it would have been better for the girl in that story to follow the principals orders and change her shirt. Or not to wear or to buy it in the first place.

 

I think it's right to speak your mind. In some cases it is of utmost importance that you do, especially when it comes to discrimination. Showing your opinion on a shirt might piss some people of, but it also might encourage people who think the same.

 

Being silent doesn't help anything. In fact, it's the silent majority that makes the evil in the world possible.

[AFriendlyFace]

I think it's right to speak your mind. In some cases it is of utmost importance that you do, especially when it comes to discrimination. Showing your opinion on a shirt might piss some people of, but it also might encourage people who think the same.

I completely disagree!

 

The two shirts are very different. The first one, worn by the girl, is preaching acceptance and tolerance - a wonderful virtue! The one about feeding Christians to lions isn't exactly advocating tolerance, and I'm assuming that isn't the literal opinion of most of the people who wear such shirts (and if it is then that degree of extremism really bothers me). Conversely I would assume that the "Gay? Fine by me" shirts DO represent the literal opinion of the wearers.

 

That's completely different in my opinion. I do advocate speaking up for ones values in a confident, composed manner. I just don't advocate creating unnecessary strife and pissing people off for no positive good.

 

I don't have a major problem with those shirts. I get that it's just a joke, and it is funny. I also get that one can say it's only "fair" given some of the horrible things the people being attacked by the "lion shirts" have said (I.E. "AIDS cures homosexuality" etc.). The distinction I'm making is that it's better to voice your opinion calmly, rationally, and compassionately, then step away from the issue and let it sink in versus engaging in a screaming match and escalating the situation. Minds and opinions aren't won like that. When people take the defensive they aren't going to question their beliefs and values. The sad fact is that the people in question probably won't in either case, but at least in the second scenario there's a chance, and at least you can say you're not sinking to the level of hate or needlessly hurting people.

 

Anyway, I don't meant to come off so strongly against said shirts. I personally disagree with them, and wouldn't wear them, but I'm not going to sit here and criticise people who do. I just wanted to make my stance, and distinction, known.

 

-Kevin

Edited September 30, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[97a]

The two shirts are very different. The first one, worn by the girl, is preaching acceptance and tolerance - a wonderful virtue! The one about feeding Christians to lions isn't exactly advocating tolerance, and I'm assuming that isn't the literal opinion of most of the people who wear such shirts (and if it is then that degree of extremism really bothers me). Conversely I would assume that the "Gay? Fine by me" shirts DO represent the literal opinion of the wearers.

Agreed. I think the same.

 

That's completely different in my opinion. (...) I just don't advocate creating unnecessary strife and pissing people off for no positive good.

And here's where i think you're wrong, because you assume that other people will have the same point of view on these things. The principal obviously was already offended/irritated by the shirt that you consider 'harmless', otherwise the whole incident would have never happened. So...

 

The distinction I'm making is that it's better to voice your opinion calmly, rationally, and compassionately, then step away from the issue and let it sink in versus engaging in a screaming match and escalating the situation. Minds and opinions aren't won like that. When people take the defensive they aren't going to question their beliefs and values. The sad fact is that the people in question probably won't in either case, but at least in the second scenario there's a chance, and at least you can say you're not sinking to the level of hate or needlessly hurting people.

Agreed again. It also shows that you are not only better in the morals department but have the better manners, too

 

But nevertheless - it is important to speak your mind, even if it might raise some trouble. Where do you want to draw the line? One could never predict what others think is displeasing. As an example: right wing christians might be offended by mentioned shirt, but they might as well already be offended by a shirt showing the flying spaghetti monster.

 

I don't think it's the right way to avoid everything controversial, it seems to me like some kind of self-censoring.

 

I also think, that it's not neccessarily the worst thing to aggravate someone you strongly disagree with... in fact it could be downright pleasing

... i know, i know... 1000 negative moral points for that one...

[rknapp]

"Doing my part to piss off the religious right"

My sister once had a bumper sticker that said that.

[Adrian Michaels]

Haha, I was in the college parting lot on Friday, and there were two cars parked next to each other.

 

The first one said "Vote Yes: One Man, One Woman" (It was for the amendment that WI had last year... we lost... But I'll change!)

 

The other one had lots of rainbows and liberal stickers all over it.

 

I couldn't help but wonder if the second guy parked there on purpose....

[AFriendlyFace]

I just don't advocate creating unnecessary strife and pissing people off for no positive good.

And here's where i think you're wrong, because you assume that other people will have the same point of view on these things. The principal obviously was already offended/irritated by the shirt that you consider 'harmless', otherwise the whole incident would have never happened. So...

Actually, I didn't necessarily consider the shirt completely "harmless" and non-controversial. Indeed that is why I put the "for no positive good" part of my previous post in italics, because I concede that it might indeed piss people off. The difference is that I think it might actually have an overall positive effect.

 

Haha, I was in the college parting lot on Friday, and there were two cars parked next to each other.

 

The first one said "Vote Yes: One Man, One Woman" (It was for the amendment that WI had last year... we lost... But I'll change!)

 

The other one had lots of rainbows and liberal stickers all over it.

 

I couldn't help but wonder if the second guy parked there on purpose....

LOL! A funny story indeed! However, based on my experiences with college parking lots I'd say chances are it was the only available spot. I know I've been in situations in which I've been so desperate to find a spot I'd have parked next to an axe murderer and hoped not to run into him on our way back to our vehicles

 

-Kevin

[rknapp]

LOL! A funny story indeed! However, based on my experiences with college parking lots I'd say chances are it was the only available spot. I know I've been in situations in which I've been so desperate to find a spot I'd have parked next to an axe murderer and hoped not to run into him on our way back to our vehicles

I've overheard conversations between commuters that essentially the imply the same consensus. I also hear them bitching that they don't want to park in the vast residential lots because it's too far for daddy's princess to walk. This school used to be a community college, so it's a 10 minute walk from my building (borders the parking lot in question) to the center of campus. Additionally, there is a shuttle that busses kids from the apartment complexes to the Arts and Sciences building across the lake... so I have no idea what these little bitches are complaining about. If this was a big urban University, then I would tell them to go ahead and bitch. But I have to walk that distance sometimes several times a day, SO GET OVER IT!

 

/rant

/off topic

[Drewbie]

Actually, I didn't necessarily consider the shirt completely "harmless" and non-controversial. Indeed that is why I put the "for no positive good" part of my previous post in italics, because I concede that it might indeed piss people off. The difference is that I think it might actually have an overall positive effect.

 

 

LOL! A funny story indeed! However, based on my experiences with college parking lots I'd say chances are it was the only available spot. I know I've been in situations in which I've been so desperate to find a spot I'd have parked next to an axe murderer and hoped not to run into him on our way back to our vehicles

 

-Kevin

 

Thing is though also, I won't go thru life tying not to offend people with bumper stickers or pisses them off. Hate poltical correctness and walking on egg shells not to offend. I know im going to offend and piss people off with that things I say, I might wear.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Drewbie

[Hylas]

I too don't like creating more divisions between straight, gay and bi people by provocative shirts/stickers/signs etc. But I have to say what that girl did was really cool. I wouldn't recommend everybody go about wearing those, LOL, but just for the sake of spiting that principal, I hope everybody in that school wears it and give him a heart attack.

 

dkstories' shirt however... LOL. I know it's wrong, but it's hilarious! I wouldn't wear it around people I know will be insulted though. I may be atheist but I respect spirituality.

 

Anyways, I wonder where everybody's sense of humor are these days... *sigh*