The Subtle Power of a Definition

[JamesSavik]

In another thread we were talking about Phobias and I diligently googled up a site about phobias to look into the silly things that us neurotic humans get hung up about.

 

I came across homophobia and found a new definition for it.

 

The definition of homophobia that I had always seen was a fear and loathing of homosexuals.

 

The new definition of homophobia that I found was a fear of homosexuals or becoming homosexual.

 

Wow. I mean wow. That explains so much.

 

Talk about the subtle power of a definition.

 

This expanded definition is new to me and I have to wonder:

 

Is this the definition/understanding of homophobia that you have always had?

 

Does this definition expand your understanding of homophobia?

 

Does this expanded definition of homophobia explain the behavior of people like Ted Haggard or Senator Larry "Wide-stance" Craig?

[Dion]

That is, pretty much, the definition of 'homophobia' as I've always understood it. The irrational and disproportionate behavior of individuals against those with a different orientation led me to think some time ago that they are not only afraid of homosexuals but are, in fact, afraid they themselves might discover they're gay.

 

I also believe, however, that homophobia is one of the type of phobias that are based on learned behavior.

[JamesSavik]

I've been gay since I can remember. It never occurred to me that anyone would be afraid of becoming a homosexual. My thoughts were that either you are or you aren't and there isn't any such thing as becoming a homosexual.

 

I can easily understand why someone would be afraid of the consequences of being homosexual but I always chalked that up to cowardice.

 

This expanded definition of homophobia does make a lot of things that I've never understood make perfect sense.

 

OK- maybe I'm thick but it really never occurred to me.

[Dion]

Fear is based on ignorance for the most part. People are afraid of that which they do not understand. That is also, in a way, cowardice. Homophobics, however, usually refuse to dispel their ignorance. That irritates me.

 

Phobias, so I'm told, can be cured - as in the case of the woman who was afraid of balloons. It turned out she was afraid only of the sound of a popping balloon (a form of ligyrophobia) so she was put in a room filled with balloons and told to pop them all by stomping on them. Apparently this helped her overcome her fear.

 

ETA - I apologize for monopolizing this thread.

[AFriendlyFace]

Yes, I think this definition makes sense, and while it's not exactly how I would phrase it, I think that's pretty much in line with what I've always thought. It's no coincidence, IMO, that some of the biggest homophobes are also some of the biggest closet cases.

[Razor]

In another thread we were talking about Phobias and I diligently googled up a site about phobias to look into the silly things that us neurotic humans get hung up about.

 

I came across homophobia and found a new definition for it.

 

The definition of homophobia that I had always seen was a fear and loathing of homosexuals.

 

The new definition of homophobia that I found was a fear of homosexuals or becoming homosexual.

 

Wow. I mean wow. That explains so much.

 

Talk about the subtle power of a definition.

 

This expanded definition is new to me and I have to wonder:

 

Is this the definition/understanding of homophobia that you have always had?

 

Does this definition expand your understanding of homophobia?

 

Does this expanded definition of homophobia explain the behavior of people like Ted Haggard or Senator Larry "Wide-stance" Craig?

 

 

I kind of think that's always how I've received it, with the implication that the fear is because they've come so close to it themselves and are afraid of being influenced. If you just hate something, you never get attached to it, and thus never have to worry about it influencing you... right? This is where I would like to halt the logic train, hop off with a baseball bat, and smack the everliving hell out of anyone who actually came up with that idiocy.

 

Blech. Homophobes are weird, mkay? And truthfully, there aren't TOO many of them left.

 

 

 

 

Also, I don't think it's entirely correct to say a phobia can be "cured". There will always be residual traces of that fear, the occasional relapse into old thought patterns, that sort of thing. Phobias are just too deeply engrained most times to say that they can be "cured", it's more of a patch-job in most cases. Y'know, panic attack to just general anxiety.

[MikeL]

James, I think this new definition you found is a more complete and more accurate one. The old "fear and loathing" definition is a weak one when you consider that homophobes are more likely to loathe than to fear homosexuals.

 

The new definition is akin to that for gerontophobia: fear of the elderly or fear of growing old.

 

Admittedly, the two phobias are not of the same emotional class, but I find it interesting that the ever-changing English language is flexible enough to incorporate truth in definition.

Edited July 25, 2008 by MikeL

[Dion]

Also, I don't think it's entirely correct to say a phobia can be "cured". There will always be residual traces of that fear, the occasional relapse into old thought patterns, that sort of thing. Phobias are just too deeply engrained most times to say that they can be "cured", it's more of a patch-job in most cases. Y'know, panic attack to just general anxiety.

I'm wondering, however, if 'homophobia' is a true phobia or is it - as Kevin stated in another thread - merely an 'aversion'. Granted that aversion may be taken to extremes at times, but is it really a phobia?

[AFriendlyFace]

I'm wondering, however, if 'homophobia' is a true phobia or is it - as Kevin stated in another thread - merely an 'aversion'. Granted that aversion may be taken to extremes at times, but is it really a phobia?

Well I've never seen even the most extreme 'homophobe' shriek in fear and literally try to run away or hide.

[Tiger]

Recently I read about something. There is a disease called HOCD. It is someone with OCD who really does fear that he or she might be gay. Conversely the opposite can happen with someone who is gay who is worried that he or she might be straight. Also, the bisexuals can be afraid that they're on or the other. I'm not sure how common it is, but it certainly suggests true homophobia in the sense of a fear of being gay.

[Maddy]

I've only been acquainted with the definition of 'homosexual' for about 7 years; however, I've been one my entire life and it wasn't hard for me to put two and two together. I've always known what phobia is: as a small child I was diagnosed with lalophobia (though it was really only timidity), so I knew what -phobia was. As a psychology student, I like to confine words to their root and analyze on my own... I don't like dictionaries to lead me astray. I believe this 'new definition' is doing exactly that.

 

We humans like definitions because they allow us to classify things effortlessly... but we have to remember that these often only harm clear perceptions. The problem with these definitions (the newly conceived homophobia and HOCD) is that they target idiosyncratic behavior. The more specific (or definitive) a definition is, the less reliable it becomes.

 

So I guess my answer to your second question is NO... this definition does not in any way or form improve my understanding or change my perception of homophobia. And I'm not good with names, so I won't pretend to know or care about the third question.

 

Maddy

[AFriendlyFace]

Recently I read about something. There is a disease called HOCD. It is someone with OCD who really does fear that he or she might be gay. Conversely the opposite can happen with someone who is gay who is worried that he or she might be straight. Also, the bisexuals can be afraid that they're on or the other. I'm not sure how common it is, but it certainly suggests true homophobia in the sense of a fear of being gay.

Honestly, I worry about this sometimes.

 

I'm sure I am gay, but I'm pretty sexually open and exploratory and I don't feel like women are completely 'off the table' for me. However, it would be a pretty difficult situation for me to be in if I found myself in a 'straight' relationship. I'm really involved in the gay world. All my friends are gay, and a large part of my identity and plans in life hinge on the fact that I'm gay (I eventually want to get a doctorate in sexuality/gay studies and plan to do quite a bit of activism, research, and university teaching on this topic). So being "straight" would be a pretty crummy thing to happen to me. I think I could deal with it, but it would throw me for quite a loop.

 

So I guess that's why I worry about it sometimes. :wacko:

 

I don't think I'm obsessive about it by any means though, and I really do think it's an irrational, pointless, inaccurate fear.

 

We humans like definitions because they allow us to classify things effortlessly... but we have to remember that these often only harm clear perceptions. The problem with these definitions (the newly conceived homophobia and HOCD) is that they target idiosyncratic behavior. The more specific (or definitive) a definition is, the less reliable it becomes.

This is very true!

[Procyon]

I think what many straight men are afraid of when it comes to homosexuality is the fact that, in their view, gay men in some ways assume a feminine role in their way of life and in their relationships. And in a patriarchal society like ours that is a threat to any traditionally raised man. The biggest fear would be that of penetration, of course, since that's just as female as it gets and thus the ultimate humiliation to someone who's not feeling secure in his role as a man. And men very often don't feel secure -- it's not that hard to feel secure in your role as a woman, because not that much is demanded of you; you can be almost as male as you like and still be viewed with respect -- but try being an effeminate man and it won't be the same at all, unless, of course, you're moving in gay circles.

 

So straight men may be afraid of realising that they're gay, or of people thinking that they might be gay -- or just of gay people, who defy the traditional role of men in society by being too like women in some ways (or, in other words, too liberated and actually secure in their role as men). It's a question of gender equality, really.

 

Honestly, I worry about this sometimes.

 

I'm sure I am gay, but I'm pretty sexually open and exploratory and I don't feel like women are completely 'off the table' for me. However, it would be a pretty difficult situation for me to be in if I found myself in a 'straight' relationship. I'm really involved in the gay world. All my friends are gay, and a large part of my identity and plans in life hinge on the fact that I'm gay (I eventually want to get a doctorate in sexuality/gay studies and plan to do quite a bit of activism, research, and university teaching on this topic). So being "straight" would be a pretty crummy thing to happen to me. I think I could deal with it, but it would throw me for quite a loop.

 

So I guess that's why I worry about it sometimes. :wacko:

 

I don't think I'm obsessive about it by any means though, and I really do think it's an irrational, pointless, inaccurate fear.

 

 

This is very true!

 

Lol, Kevin!! Even if you had a straight relationship it wouldn't mean that you'd stop being gay! You'd be just the same as ever, and the girl you'd be with couldn't not be gay-friendly -- in fact, she might be a slightly bisexual lesbian, that wouldn't suprise me at all. And your gay friens wouldn't regard you as less gay just because you had a relationship with a woman, would they??

[glomph]

Does this expanded definition of homophobia explain the behavior of people like Ted Haggard or Senator Larry "Wide-stance" Craig?

 

No, in cases like theirs surely the fear is primarily fear of getting caught. It may be that for high-profile folk that the thrill of risky behavior is more of a turn-on than the sex, or at least a big part of it.

 

I think their public homophobia would be more of a smoke screen than anything else.

 

More generally, I agree with about everything in this thread.

 

Being obsessed with someone else's sex life, of whatever form, is pretty kinky. One might disapprove of homosexuality, oppose political rights for gays, etc., fairly dispassionately, just as one can rationally entertain a lot of ideas, good or bad. But when it becomes an obsession, then that likely says more about the person than about the people or ideas that the person opposes.

[AFriendlyFace]

I think what many straight men are afraid of when it comes to homosexuality is the fact that, in their view, gay men in some ways assume a feminine role in their way of life and in their relationships. And in a patriarchal society like ours that is a threat to any traditionally raised man. The biggest fear would be that of penetration, of course, since that's just as female as it gets and thus the ultimate humiliation to someone who's not feeling secure in his role as a man. And men very often don't feel secure -- it's not that hard to feel secure in your role as a woman, because not that much is demanded of you; you can be almost as male as you like and still be viewed with respect -- but try being an effeminate man and it won't be the same at all, unless, of course, you're moving in gay circles.

 

So straight men may be afraid of realising that they're gay, or of people thinking that they might be gay -- or just of gay people, who defy the traditional role of men in society by being too like women in some ways (or, in other words, too liberated and actually secure in their role as men). It's a question of gender equality, really.

My gosh, Maria! You really need to read this book I'm reading about homosexuality, feminism, and gender equality. You basically just summed up the primary premise! (...well in that case I guess you don't need to read the book )

 

In any case, I agree with every word.

 

 

Lol, Kevin!! Even if you had a straight relationship it wouldn't mean that you'd stop being gay! You'd be just the same as ever, and the girl you'd be with couldn't not be gay-friendly -- in fact, she might be a slightly bisexual lesbian, that wouldn't suprise me at all.

Thanks for the support. I think that's a great assessment too!

 

And your gay friens wouldn't regard you as less gay just because you had a relationship with a woman, would they??

Nah....most of them already think I'm a little bi anyway

 

No, in cases like theirs surely the fear is primarily fear of getting caught. It may be that for high-profile folk that the thrill of risky behavior is more of a turn-on than the sex, or at least a big part of it.

 

I think their public homophobia would be more of a smoke screen than anything else.

Hmm, that's an interesting theory, and it probably has a lot of merit. It's different from my own though.

 

I tend to think that the pressures of living such an extreme lie (being so publicly anti-gay while having those feelings) build up and build up and they see that at their only out-let. Which is ridiculous because if they could accept themselves and face up to the truth they could live a much more respectable, positive, healthier life.

 

More generally, I agree with about everything in this thread.

Me too.

 

 

Being obsessed with someone else's sex life, of whatever form, is pretty kinky. One might disapprove of homosexuality, oppose political rights for gays, etc., fairly dispassionately, just as one can rationally entertain a lot of ideas, good or bad. But when it becomes an obsession, then that likely says more about the person than about the people or ideas that the person opposes.

Totally agreed! Well said!

[Procyon]

My gosh, Maria! You really need to read this book I'm reading about homosexuality, feminism, and gender equality. You basically just summed up the primary premise! (...well in that case I guess you don't need to read the book )

 

In any case, I agree with every word.

 

Haha, darnnnn.... Why didn't I write it first? But in any case all this is extremely obvious, isn't it? And I think I might still want to take a look at that book, who wrote it? Maybe I should have done gender and gay studies instead of in addition to all the other stuff I've done at university.

 

Thanks for the support. I think that's a great assessment too!

 

 

Nah....most of them already think I'm a little bi anyway

 

See, you'll be grand whatever happens. I knew it.