Depression

[JOeKEool]

Looks like a quiet day . Im going into analyze mode for a bit.

I think most of our metabolism derives from protiens and other compounds in each cell. If we become depressed,that will effect chemicals expressed in the brain. The areas of the brain responsible for "happy" chemicals are not being activated. These chemicals react with our DNA and genes that would normally express are now suppressed. Genes normally dormant ,may now be activated. Eventually,as cells die and are replaced, all the new cells now are "programed" for this depressed state .In essence our entire body can be in "depression mode". This could explain irratic aches and pains, dietary issues,

and other physical symptoms of depression. It could also explain why it's so hard to just "kick".

I will go back to my room now

[JOeKEool]

So I was wondering...what do you think?

Is depression a form of self-pity? Serious mental illness? Is it the depressed person's fault or not? How does one get out of it?

 

Also, considering how LGBT youth are 4x more likely to kill themselves than their straight contemporaries, does depression have a larger place in LGBT culture? Thoughts?

 

Hi Ashes,

I want to thank you for starting this thread. My first click at GA was Forums. Second was Q&A, Third was Depression. I signed up and center around this thread. I brought my recliner and my coffee pot over here,too. I want you to know how truly life- changing GA and this particular thread have been for me. Oh, and I have added your story to my Must Read list. Long list now,but good stories read fast.

Much thanks

Joe

[Zolia Lily]

I was talking to a friend recently who studied Psychology, had a brother over in Afghanistan, and is really interested in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as well as Depression. Was kind of interrogating her about CBT (cognitive brain therapy (?)) and how it works. I know it's supposed to be really good, to help, to allow you to retrain your thinking, but i wasn't sure how you go about it. My ex-psychologist never seemed to ask me anything relevant, and as far as i could tell, never really seemed to be helping or pointing me in the right direction. Simplifying and trying to shorten our discussion rather a lot, what she was saying was that the first step would be learning relaxation techniques and being able to put them into practice in your life as necessary. Then, being able to use them to desensitize yourself in the case of fear, or being able to use them to rationalise and keep from getting into a state in the case of depression.

Does this sounds like i've got it right? And - more interestingly - does this correlate to anything you do which helps?

Does it sound like it might help?

[acht-acht]

apparantly i have to at least try being nice to everyone... did it today, and now all i feel is pissed off because being nice made me annoyed but because i was being nice i couldnt be annoyed so i got kinda depressed because now when im myself again tomorrow everyones gonna think im just being mean on purpose.

 

and my doctor has told me that hating and wanting to kill everyone i may or may not know means im depressed, but hating everyone makes me happy so dunno what my doctors trippin on.

 

Dear Bee, I´ve just started reading through this thread and LOL when I came to your post. Having to try and be nice to people sucks when there are so many bitchy, sarky, vitriolic remarks on the tip of your tongue that are just too beautiful to be swallowed!

I should know. Me and my boyfriend can be Hate Masters of the Universe on good days. The upside of that is, when we show other people we have a compassionate and sweet side as well, it comes as a total shock to them, a good one mostly. But that way they know up front not to expect us to be super patient with them all the time, and they know not to take the nasty stuff we sometimes say too personal, you know. They know sometimes it´s really not them, it´s just our usual nasty selves. LOL

 

I think the crux is that you have to learn how to be reasonably nice to other humans while still being true to yourself, you know, how to balance this with recognizing your own needs and moods etc. so you don´t become a total pushover. It comes naturally to a lucky few, but a lot of us have to fucking struggle to achieve that kind of equilibrium.

It´s even harder when you´re a youth and still living at home, with all kinds of people still making decisions for you - all for your own best in their thinking, probably, but it surely makes it an uphill battle to try and make up your own mind. Just don´t forget that you´ll get there one day. You will work all this crap out for yourself. There will always be people who can´t stand you, there will always be times when you really fuck up and have to apologize for things you said or did, there will probably always be times of depression and a lot of stupid assholes in your life who think they´re the ones who know what´s best for you, but there will also be people who "get" you, who like you for you, or who´ll indeed help you achieve things and make you happy. (Just like in a lot of really sappy, moronic movies, actually. Urgh. Vomit.)

 

I know this is a typical old person´s advice (I am old) , but keep this in mind, it will help to tide you over the crap still to come (that there will be crap to come is one thing in life you can always be sure about).

 

Hugs, Clara

[Bumblebee]

i did CBT with one shrink, and after the first session I had a panic attack, and was ready to try and kill her, so for me it didn't do anything except stress me out.

and since at the time the idiots didn't realise that I have all the signs of having Asperger syndrome (which I'm currently in the process of getting diagnosed) and they didn't understand how to speak to me, or how my brain thinks, so all CBT did was make all of my problems worse.

not sure how it would work with normal people though.

[acht-acht]

Okay, I was actually planning on talking about my experiences with depression/ anxiety attacks/ medication etc, but a few posts I´ve read about how religion has been used on people to make them feel bad about who they are made me so mad I first have to get my thoughts about it off my chest.

 

The irony: I´m an agnostic, but not because I grew up in an overly oppressive religious environment. In a way, I still believe that if there´s a God, he´ll be okay with what and who I am, he´ll be supportive, because that´s his thing. Even as a kid I never felt like he would judge me (not my sexuality for sure - I was only a little concerned wether my Grandpa up in heaven could see me masturbating ... ehrm)

 

Some of my relatives were more, some less religious, some can be pretty bigoted and others are awsome open-minded characters like me (*irony*), but it was always understood that, basically, God is love, and all the rest is just pesky details we have to work out on our own. As an agnostic, I think we make our own Gods, and the God they chose was one to help you with your struggles, internal and external, the one entity that´s always there, not to slay your enemies for you or other cruel stuff, but so you´ll always have someone to talk to, or someone who understands you even if you can´t find the right words to explain what your struggling with. Someone for guys like Mark all alone on his Yorkshire farm who don´t have anyone else to share thoughts with. (Well, now we have Internet communities where people can share, but you know what I mean.) HE wants to help us to be ourselves without fucking other people over too bad in the process. That´s it.

 

I´m from a catholic background, and there´s one bit of a prayer we say at the end of every mass (I´ll have to translate this roughly): "Lord, come in and stay with me under my roof, so my soul can heal". To me, that doesn´t mean, like, "heal my soul so I´m not a filthy gay pervert anymore" or some such crap. just that every soul that´s hurt deserves to be healed. My boyfriend who´s an atheist and can be a little mean about it thinks I´m nuts, but it sometimes helps me to got to church and say that prayer, cry some and feel better. I might even go to the altar and eat a host, just to say: "See? HE doesn´t mind I don´t even believe in him, he´s still cool with it." Schizophrenic much? Yes, in a way. But who cares, right? A lot of religions actually have some good insights or coping techniques somwhere under all the heaps of judgmental and unhelpful stuff.

Like what Joe wrote:

 

"My friend, the religiouse guy, said I had the Holy Spirit.

That kind of freaked me out. But, it was like a "religous experience" it was all so profound."

 

To me, I think the "Holy Spirit" just means whatever comes out there is so raw and unfiltered and overwhelming it transcends our normal, everyday understanding of the socially acceptable - something we respect instinctively, even if we don´t necessarily agree with whatever actually is said. Healing stuff. Great Balls of Fire. etc. ramble, ramble ...

[JOeKEool]

Hi Clara

Welcome to the thread. My heart aches for Bee. I feel so much energy from her. Bee you know how much I love you and care(and cry) for you.

Clara,I hope you can help.

 

 

Clara, you express yourself very well. I feel like I have known you forever.I have a strong conviction that there is a god. I am trying to reinvent a god that works for me. The one I grew up with let me hate myself.

That can't be what it's all about. I have total respect for my parents and family. They have embraced religion and made it the focal point of their life. For them that is the only way. For a hurting little boy that needed help being told to pray just didn't fill the need. I still carry the basic belief that Christ redeemed us and we have a future after this human struggle ends. I think that is all that needs to be said. God did not intend to be USED as a hate monger.God did not intend for us to be perfect little angels. 1/3 of the angels "fell" after all.

Edited January 30, 2012 by JOeKEool

[Roan]

Warning - rambling discourse to follow and you will probably not agree with some of it. The thoughts are my own, and I take responsibility for them.

 

I think part of the problem is that the one word, "Religion" is used by so many people to mean so many different things.

 

In my experience, I have encountered two primary broad streams of "Religion". Beware horribly bad generalisations to follow.

 

The first stresses the spiritual, the persons own path to God and coming to terms with ones own purpose in life, and the peace that comes from loving your fellow man so you may love yourself and be loved by God. FOr these people the Golden Rule is central. I have some wonderful people in this category in my life, true christians (lack of capital intended) as I see it whose presence lightens my soul. I have an Anglican minister and a Catholic nun in particular who are people I go to for guidance and support and who never fail to provide love unquestioned and unconditional and wisdom beyond price.

 

The second stresses the centrality of division, of the chosen and the fallen, of the need to subjugate yorself utterly to teachings and structures in order to subjugate yourself to God because from that act of subjugation alone and NOT FROM HOW YOU TREAT OTHERS comes salvation. Your peace comes from knowing there are other people you can judge and others who are damned so you may be saved. I have had many people of this type in my life also, true Christians (the capital is intended) as they see themselves. Ill leave it to you to figure out what they do to my soul.

 

For me, in the world I come from, to the extent that I have any sense of self worth it comes from how much I can bring others to see the greatness and goodness in themselves as I see it in them. The seond route repulses me and makes me burn with hate like the heat of a nova and I am too far from inner peace to go with the first. If I am anything its probably a secular humanist as some of my former acquaintences have called me more than a little mockingly.

 

All of the above however could be classed as "religion" or religious values by various people.

 

I do see though that the emerging trend in western churiches to Evangelical movements is a troubling development in some ways and particularly for mental health amongst the GLBT community.

 

My experience of evangelicals has been bad I must admit, and may be mine alone, but that experience suggests that for them, the following equation occurs.

 

1. I feel inadequate.

2. I really would like to feel like a good person

3. Being good to other people, being kind modest etc is flipping hard though.

4. Wouldnt it be great to have a version of Christianity that makes me feel special just because I'm me and decde to be born again, and lets me look down on others because they dont AND FEEL NO GUILT.

5. Well have I got a religion for you.

 

The teaching Ive seen seems to be summed up as almost 5 point calvinism reborn,

- Only the elect are saved

- The elect are predestined by God

- To be the elect you need to submit and not question.

- Your worth is in how much you separate yourself from others, and is defined by your submission and your committment to the Great Commission in Matthew 25, nothing else

- If you work out someone you are prostelytising to isnt coming to God, shun them because they could bring you down (2 Timothy)

- Otherwise its ok to be rich in a world of poverty, to not give a stuff because only your fellow elect should matter to you, not how you treat anyone else.

- In particular how you demonstrate your otherness is by picking on various things you see yourself as different from and hating it, such as being Gay - this gives you a great feeling because you now get to feel superior to someone else not by having to do good things yourself but by demonising the other.

 

 

In more psychological moment, I see modern evangelical Christianity as the perfect 20th century example of cognitive dissonance at work - dealing with feeelings of inadequacy caused by the gap between your aspirations and your behaviour by changing the ground rules to make it possible to be a prick and still get into heaven.

 

 

The consequences for this environment for GLBT particularly youth is something Ive seen first hand and it breaks me to see it. At least for me, my depression springs from a deep wellspring of self hate, which was there even without my sexuality which merely added frosting to an allready feculent cake.

 

But I have seen in two friends I love dearly the emotional and spiritual wasteland of the soul which comes from living in that world and believeing something about you you cannot change makes you inherently wrong and without worth, and having people who are supposed to love you hate you for it. I know that feeling, though for other reasons, and the thought that any form of organised religion could make a person feel that it is RIGHT that they be hated, abused, wounds to the core.

 

It is this also that made me see the tolerance / acceptance divide and its importance.

 

If there is anything my life is to be about, its hoping that noone ever feels about themselves as I do about me because of anything i've done. Thats my path to salvation.

 

I do however gain strength and solace from those who follow the first path - and maybe I will find a way to tread it myself one day.

[Roan]

i did CBT with one shrink, and after the first session I had a panic attack, and was ready to try and kill her, so for me it didn't do anything except stress me out.

and since at the time the idiots didn't realise that I have all the signs of having Asperger syndrome (which I'm currently in the process of getting diagnosed) and they didn't understand how to speak to me, or how my brain thinks, so all CBT did was make all of my problems worse.

not sure how it would work with normal people though.

 

Yeah the important thing with CBT is its the answer only to the right question, not to every question.

 

It can help with dealing with some thought patterns, but not processing differences.

 

Im glad youve survived that blind alley Bee.

 

:hugs:

 

 

It sort of helps me but its a long road still.

[Mark92]

WOW! You guys have been busy Hugs too everyone first of all

A huge warm welcome to Clara

 

My comments on religion were personal to me. My mother was in a religous sect, they shouted and screamed about "god" But he wasnt the god I knew from the bible I was forced to read. This god of theirs, said I should be openly punished with violence and verbal abuse. And 18 years of that? yeah I'm bitter and a non-believer.

I have read the bible three times from cover to cover. As well as highlighting the word "sin" through several of them. I was the sin, I needed the punishment. I was born from rape, so of course it was my fault.

I believe in mother earth and nature, that is enough for me. I'm not saying everyone should follow, to each his own.

In my view religion is a personal thing, and shouldnt be pushed on others. Let them make their own mind up.

 

I have seen one shrink, who basically told me I should be in care. So forgive me for not trusting them.

 

We all need someone to talk too, rant with, vent with, or just a hug to say everything will be ok. I dont think there is any real "fix" for depression. Just hard work, and whatever suits you. All I have done is try to keep this thread open , so that some of us can come and speak our mind, or get something off our chests, or just offer an ear and a hug when needed. So more hugs everyone

[JOeKEool]

Hey Mark, I was concerned.You have been so quiet. So good to see you!! I felt condemned by god as a child/young man. Then got no emotional support or input or direction.

Life was all about trust in god.Trust in god. Yeah, I trusted that he will send me to hell. But sure,he's going to help me deal with all that life throws at me in the meantime. I am only recently finding a concept of a god that fits into my right -brain thinking.

Roan, I agree with your views. Religion separates and divides. I do not believe IT is of god. It is a human construct and a tool of war and hatred, etc. While I am now able to embrace spirituallity, I have no use for religion in the way I define it.

People cling to the Old Testament rules and regulations. Or at least the ones they pick and choose to use. Those were over-ridden by the redemption given us in the New Testament. The old ways no longer apply.

Mark, nature is god in all his glory. I feel more presence in the mountains or by a river or quiet stream than I ever felt in a church. Even just stepping outside and reallizing how fresh the air smells or how blue the sky. These are what represent god. You have the perfect spiritual retreat in your woodlot, from what I can see in pics. Absorb the beauty and the energy and give back by finding the beauty and energy within yourself. I know it's there. I see it. Embrace one tiny scrap and build on it until you can accept and love all of you. Even the ugly parts.

And your efforts to keep this thread going has more impact than you will ever know. I have a lifeline here. I have YOU and Roan and Stu and Bee and Lily and Clara now and so many others who are now Family. It is a blessing bestowed by you. You have a VERY big place in my Family and in my heart.

And you have the same impact on so many others here.

I must wipe off these good tears. I have duties as Grampa today.It's off for icecream.

 

All my love,

Joe

[Mark92]

Hi you lot

My bluebell wood is my sanctuary, not only for the underground den lined with sheep fleece. But the smells and sounds of it all. From the owl hooting at night to the foxes and badgers that live there. I love it all and it is very spiritual. Being naked there isnt about anything sexual its going back to nature, as it were. I feel more at home there, then I ever do in the house I call home.

But when the bluebells are in full bloom, to lay on your back in them breathing in the heavy scent, looking up through sun dappled leaves, then its so beautiful so awesome I fall asleep. The calm dreamless peaceful sleep I only ever get there.

to you all

[hh5]

Wow didn't know how the cbt was for u. Amazed on how you n your parents catch the signs of asperger. How was that figured out?

 

i did CBT with one shrink, and after the first session I had a panic attack, and was ready to try and kill her, so for me it didn't do anything except stress me out. and since at the time the idiots didn't realise that I have all the signs of having Asperger syndrome (which I'm currently in the process of getting diagnosed) and they didn't understand how to speak to me, or how my brain thinks, so all CBT did was make all of my problems worse. not sure how it would work with normal people though.

Part of an experience to religion when I was job searching over a year ago ... this guy ran his life a certain way ... developed bad habits of drinking and other stuff ... found god and needs him so he can stop all these bad habits .. perhaps his own demons ... and also this is his crutch to keep himself from doing those bad habits ... this seems to be what religion was for him ... maybe a bit of fear of god and the learning to love .., looking at it from another perspective ... its the lack of self-control from doing harmful things ... so perhaps in some ways he's been blind about his bad ways ... now he can see ... and also found an accepting community of human beings

 

Now to the contrary on religion ... its been soiled by the kings ... its not perfect because its delivered by man ... or hey for the mafia ... its a nice scam to trade words of belief for money ... it was a haven for fanatics and extremists ...

 

But, perhaps we should not knock at least the simpler sense of the belief in god .... removing the tainting religion delivered by man ,,, yet inside of that ... there would be accepting of all ... no matter what one did ... even if the person did all levels of crimes and murder .... but yet in religion ... there is orthodox and liberal views ... about being accepted into heaven ... that the souls never leave earth ... and are destined to the last book of revelation ... hence the orthodox binds us to this drama in the story with in the bible ... this controversy within religion ... its really confusing ... yet when we seek it ,,, we seek it from man ... who would tailor it to our liking ... hence giving us this liberal way out for our sins ... but the orthodox extremist would argue hard knocks of religion ... hence delivering the kind of religion for the them that understand it ... but for us who don't understand it ... we get subjugated if we decide to belie in the orthodox way

 

Yaa I met a few Orthodox ... they are really like the ones that rules life in a religious judgmental way ... its either what they learned from the bible or from men who go literally by what the bible says

 

but whats common a lot ... is verse teachings much like quoting that people do on twitter and facebook ... bringing their own flavors of teaching to the world in whatever context of who they are or want people to think they are ... but really its taking things out of context ... its really the clif notes ... lol we fall into the Dan Brown traps of our miss-interpretations of meanings and symbols and idols and stuff

 

ex: When Jesus was on the cross and it was said his man part fell to his frailties "oh god ... forsake ..." .... well this would taught in this manner by many bad teacher of religion ... not sure about theology would be corrective of this ... but then talking to my neighbor ... she says ... Jesus was reciting a prayer ... not falling to his human emotions

 

Now comes the other kind of people ... the alien theorist ... that Jesus and these creatures of hell and the angels that fly ... argue that these are visitation by aliens from space ... etc etc

 

So all in all ... its quiet confusing ... about life ... so perhaps ... the idea behind it ... its not to be alone ... but then not to fall into these trapping areas of religion delivered by man ... since man is imperfect ... where greed and other bad stuff still drives his thinking

 

so does that mean we have to change to buddist monks .... who spent time to be free from man imperfection ... lol ... try reading the kipling story of KIM ... even the perfection by buddist ... in the 1800s ... they learn they are out of touch with the community of man when they go through their walkabouts in man's jungle ... yaa look at the amerish reality show ... when they did walkabouts ... how many of them returned to their community or not ... were they comsumed by our undiciplined ways which are evil

 

I hopes these glimpses shows something to open ones mind of how difficult it is to be sane about life ... it can drive some depression ... but I guess its a matter does our heart and mind hear and experience the power of god ... or is it an invention by man or is it an planed imperfection of our genetics given by aliens

 

lol ... this gives a headache ... to the fallen

 

perhaps one thing is clear between the alien theorist (man lives in a zoo watched by aliens) and god saying we chosen free will and he doesn't interfere with man ... we all have to learn to govern ourselves ... learn to live in harmony and co-existence

 

its obvious man is losing the battle and falling out of harmony ... even in the wild for animals they are like no different than man ... ie: Dolphins ... we developed how perfect they are ... but in a doco ... they shown that dolphins are just like us ... they have a dark side ... but the big difference is they don't have priest, salesman, money ... etc ... they have what they have ... whether its natural or ravaged by man

 

sorry about the rabblings ... i hope it opens the eyes about whatever i said or perhaps ... you can still open my eyes in any form of response

[acht-acht]

Hi, and thanks for the warm welcome you all. Some stuff about depression treatment/ medication/ self-medication ...

 

Since I was a grown-up (= since my parents finally agreed to let me move out for good and live on my own when I was sixteen), I had usually been able to "deal" with my bouts of depression by just allowing myself to go all the down into the slump and mire of my misery, just went underground for a week or so till I came out on the other side and could see the light again.

My self-medication was the usual non-subscription stuff available: drinking, chain-smoking, taking drugs, fucking around, picking fights with nasty fat abusive fuckers just for the thrill of it, and it wasn´t all bad. I actually met a lot of nice and interesting people that way, can you believe it. Dropped in and out of school(s), but mostly did bar jobs (it didn´t show I was a little young) but finally found something I liked to do: founded a little music magazine with some friends which required me to clean up my act just a little but still allowed for the self-destructive release I needed.

It also provided me with a network of people who taught me how to not make a total mess of the everyday crap of life like dealing with taxes, unpaid electricity bills, police matters, how to get health insurance and brave a dentist ... Actually, I wasn´t able to just pick up a phone and talk reason with whoever was on the other end of the line at the phone company or wherever, because I took everything so personal and never took into account they were just doing a job and didn´t know anything about my predicaments. To learn they were often willing to actually help was a big step.

 

Well. I got older and chose a more responsible life style because I had to; I wanted to be there for my little brother and for my younger sister who just had had her first baby, a little boy, who developed neurodermatitis when he was only a couple months old. The poor little guy had eczema all over his body he scratched bloody, didn´t sleep a night through, and all that was just too much for a young mother with her first child, even with a very supportive husband, but he worked long hours and needed a little downtime for himself too. My mother was supportive too, but tended to drive her crazy, so I took on the experiment of being an aunt and it turned out I was good at it.

 

So, I worked, I took responsibilities and liked it, I was creative and working, everything was going as it should be, if it weren´t for the increasing sleeplessness that went on for x nights in a row, at first I could make up for lost sleep with a nap during daytime, but after a while that didn´t work any more till I was near psychotic with sleep deprivation. I couldn´t sleep for need of sleep. When it got unbearable I went to the emergency room of the nearest hospital and they gave me two sleeping pills with the order to go home, close the curtains and lie on my bed before swallowing them and then just sleep till I woke up naturally. Worked okay.

 

Then I developed free floating anxiety disorder - I had always been a neurotic child scared about irrational stuff like ghosts and nightmares and shit, but that was usually one thing at a time and i would get over it with addressing that specific scare, like watching every horror movie known to mankind till I managed to reduce my own fear of the dark and it´s creatures to just another pop cultural reference.

 

The new quality was that it suddenly felt like my whole psyche was full of cracks where everything could seep in and turn into a trauma, even the littlest feelings of discomfort or irritation, and it was impossible to address them all, they were so elusive, one phobia blended into another, my issues, other peoples issues ... I was already getting talk therapy then, and my GP was trying to take the edge off with high doses of St. John´s wort extract. Didn´t do much, but at least didn´t make it worse.

 

Then came a much needed vacation with my boyfriend, and even before we went, I knew something was off. I mentioned it to a very dear girlfriend of mine who swore on Rescue Remedy (the Bach flower therapy stuff) and gave me a teensy bottle for should the worst happen. I almost made it through the vacation and even managed to enjoy some of the time, but then I had one of my restless nights in a tiny B&B where we slept door to door with the host who treated me like he didn´t want me to be there for no reason that was apparent to me and I felt trapped and agitated, just the condition Rescue Remedy is supposed to relieve, so I took the crap and of course NOTHING happened. Note: If Rescue Remedy actually helps you, you can be sure your condition wasn´t all that grave to begin with.

 

After that, everything spiralled out of control. When we were at Heathrow Airport the next day, I totally lost it. You know, when you´re inside the terminal building you can sometimes feel the whole structure and floor rumble with the big machines starting and landing, and that was what set me off - it was like my whole reality was ripped wide open, and I was standing all alone at the end of time, staring into the absolute cold and nothingness of the universe ... with nothing but fucking Rescue Remedy to shield me from the horror. I really don´t know how I managed to get on that plane with some semblance of sanity and make it home without trying to smash in a window and jump out during the flight or screaming "I´ve got a bomb, shoot me!", but when we were home I immediately talked to my GP and told her I couldn´t go on like that and she sent me to a proper psychiatrist (yeah, I know, the scary guys from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo´s Nest", but trust me, if you need medication, you need one of those, only they find their way through the endless array of pharmaceuticals on the market) who then helped me to find a medication that suited me.

 

You have to know that finding the right combination of meds is no picnic - anti-depressants, who are also given for anxiety-attacks, are no tranquilizers which kick in immediately (but are nothing for long-term use), anti-depressants have to build up in your blood over a few weeks, and then you have to wait a few more weeks to see wether they´re doing it for you, and if they don´t, you have to get them out of your system, which takes just as long, before you can try the whole thing all over again with another prescription. There can be paradox reactions, like: you feel agitated, but it´s still possible that the prescription that works for you is an "activating" one rather than a sedating one as one would think.

And with stuff that makes you more active there´s always the risk that it will give you just the last little energy rush you needed to go through with killing yourself. (Sometimes apathy can be a blessing, too!) That´s why they often give you tranquilizers for the time you´re adjusting to the meds, and that´s a good thing as long as you stay within the prescribed doses. I didn´t want to be a good little girl and take my Xanax, that´s why I spent almost two months and a family Christmas sitting trembling and sleepless in front of the telly day and night, watching random programs about all kinds of stuff (learned a lot, I would actually know how to make my own Champange now if I had the means!!) eating tons of chocolate and still losing weight faster than I could replace calories. Ugh!*

 

 

Add to that the neccessity to explain to well-meaning but clueless people (like your family) what you´re going through and that it basically would be best if they left you alone until you scream for their help ... not easy, because EVERYBODY´s a therapist and all your family and friends believe they know exactly what you need, well, I guess you´ve all dealt with that. The hardest thing for me was having to explain to the kids I wouldn´t be making up new stories for them for a pretty long while because my story-brain wasn´t working so good any more. I didn´t want them to think I was just brushing them off.

At least I wasn´t alone, I had a lot of people who cared and were trying their best to be supportive even if they didn´t get everything right at first and were sometimes driving me nuts. They gave me the space I needed finally and were there when I reached out for them.

 

My situation right now: I was on meds for 15 years now and just recently kicked them (a month ago, so I´ve got them out of my system properly) , now I´ll have to see. I´ll make an appointment with my shrink in a week or so, ask him what he thinks, and if it turns out I can´t go completely without meds maybe we´ll try something different. What I hated about my meds were the - albeit harmless! - side-effects (everything that works has side-effects) : an extremely dry mouth and excessive sweating, which meant lugging around gallons of water and three changes of clothes everywhere I go. I had suddenly had enough. End of story for now. Bye!

 

*(And that´s only the treatment for pretty common depression/anxiety disorder that´s harmless compared to finding treatment for someone who´s bi-polar, where the situation can be much more volatile.)

[Daisy]

lack of sleep can be dangerous. thanks for sharing your story Acht-Acht . I can identify with lots of it.

 

The sleep thing - before christmas a good friend was suddenly hospitalised - he was in about 3 weeks in total and then they wouldn't let him go back to work/study for several months.

Not really sure what caused it, but the biggest theory is the lack of sleep in the build up. He started having a psychotic episode and trying to kill himself, or run off at least. His mum noticed it, and they were very lucky he was staying at home that weekend. My friend said that he kind of 'came to' a few days into the hospital stay - but they then kept him to make sure. No drugs/alcohol in his system so that wasn't it. Depression as a kicker, who knows, at least he isn't telling.

[Mark92]

Thank you hh5 and Clara for your insights.

Why dont we get away from religion and meds and shrinks for a while. And just tell each other how we are today?

Whatever time of day it is for you, how are you right then?

It's almost 8pm for me on a Wednesday evening. I have recently had dinner and watched Stuby go off for his. Which gives me some time to write this.

Doing my chores...my farmwork....my farmer job...is second nature I can do it with ease, running on auto almost. I also excel at it. I have a bank balance very much in the black. I have no debt. My animals are in good health and as happy as they can be. I have plenty of food, heat and water. In fact I have everything one needs to survive and quite happily.

The other side of that, is the ME Mark, totally different and opposite of farmer Mark.

I see myself as ugly...because I was always told that ...had it punched into me. I have never, until recently had a friend, anyone to talk too or interact with. I've always been the wildman, before that the wild kid. No school, no socialising, no traffic or life to learn from. I fear with dread the unknown. The "whats out there." People, closeness, noise, especially anger, a raised voice to me means I'm going to get beaten again.

I have no people experience to fall back on. No interaction with people my own age. Only my mum, her old friend Kate, who was poweless to stop the abuser, in case it got worse, or her visits were stopped. She is still my friend now just not close. Old Sam a neighbouring farmer. I talk to through a ten foot fence. My postman Greg, he waits a full twenty minutes for me to get to the gate. So he brings a flask of tea, and we have a natter. My old doctor he's 72 and so old school its hard to see how he can help sometimes.

And then comes Baz and Lukey. They both came to me originally as volunteers, from the Young Farmers Association. They help young farmers as the title says, but so much more. Without them I could'nt have coped, illness had brought me literally to my knees. My animals were all that mattered to me. Now I have someone that matters more than me, or my place. I would give up everything for him.

If it wasnt for him and my friends here at GA I can honestly say I wouldnt be here. They give me a reason for being here, not just on GA but on this planet. Thats how I feel today, grateful, and thankful. So in love my heart soars, romantic mush? maybe but its the truth.

Love you all Marky.

 

Thank you Celes I almost missed that

I owe you lot so many like points. But i'm all out. Huge hugs to everyone

[acht-acht]

Mark, I´m not that far away from you (Germany) and it´s 23:50 right now on my computer clock. What I can do on autopilot is putter around in our apartment, clean up and put stuff and clutter we have lying around into boxes because I have to make room for the guys who´ll come and build in our new windows next week. When that´s done I´ll finally paint the walls ... I´m trying to lose weight and am pretty pleased with my progress, so I can have a little ice cream tonight before bed cause I don´t want to overdo it with the dieting.

 

Wildman, I´m glad to hear you´re feeling good and happy tonight! You know what, I grew up in a teacher´s household, started to talk and read very very early and had all kinds of advangtages but somehow managed to develop a total lack of social competence in school and among my peers. What always drove me crazy were people who got pissed at me because I didn´t "follow the rules" - when no one had bothered to tell me what the rules were. Everybody seemed to know but me. I think you did very well for yourself, considering the horrible way you were treated as a child. You may be still shy and scared, but you seem to be coming out of your shell ever so slowly. It´s sweet that your Postman waits for you and takes teh time to chat. And totally amazing to me is that you were running a farm ALONE ... I almost can´t wrap my head around it, Farmer Mark.

 

Ah - my sweetheart has ironed my favorite granny nightdress for me so I´m going to bed! Hugs all around ...

[JOeKEool]

Hi Mark,Clara,Celes,Harold and all.

Mark,stay positive. You sound great.

I too owe so much to all of you here at GA. I no longer fear facing my emotions and the hurt,pain,and turmoil I find buried there. I now have confidence I can find a level somewhere between the deep depression and the sky high manic phases. If I do sink into a depression I will not fear the emotions I have to face to climb out.

I now embrace and accept the powerful feelings within myself. They are part of me. Happy /sad. Positive/negative. It is all part of me and I like ME. I have never said that.. I LIKE ME. Those three words dispell a lifetime of self hate and fear. I owe it all to you guys. And especially Marky. You will never know how much you mean to me young man.!! El Viejo has spoken!!!

 

Clara, Celes, I go without sleep. (I fell asleep driving several times a couple nights ago) It is more trying to burn the candle at both ends. Just not making time for sleep. Eventually you get stressed and CAN"T sleep. Clara, you had it way worse. I am glad you feel better. I tried Xanex etc. Prozac. Don't like them. I feel odd on them. Not in control. I have epilepsy ( I control quite well) and more recently, post concussion syndrome from a car wreck. I'm a mess without adding meds.

I did the self-help with pot and booze for years too. You always have a friend when you have pot. When it's gone,so are your friends. My neurologist for epilepsy (saw him 30 years ago) said a little pot wouldn't hurt me.

Doctors didn't admit that back then. Pretty cool old guy. My siezures are only triggered by reading. Go figure.

I have been a voracious reader since 1st grade. I just have to be careful. I can usually feel a warning and stop reading. So far,reading on the monitor hasn't bothered me.

 

Harold,I have always found religion very confusing. I take the basic idea of redemption and ignore the rest. There is a higher power.

Man will never truly know till the end all the facts. Don't they think they know it all tho'?

 

I now post to notepad and copy and paste to forum. I have had to rewrite too many posts that got erased. Cockpit error,mostly.

 

Hey, I posted a new poem here @GA and one @FSO. Please go see and give feedback.Light ,funny stuff.

 

Love to all,

 

Joe

 

 

Edit: sorry ,I'm a day behind here.Mark. What do I feel right now?

It's Thurs. night@11pm. My brother will be calling soon. He calls every night now. Thank you Google Talk. I am happy and content. I will go to work in 2 hours. Easy night tonight.

I saw the kids today. Great time. My problems will get worked out. I got an email from an old on-line pal. Had lost touch.Now he's back.Good. Good. Good. Just a very good day. Oh and the weather today was the best . sunshine. Just a hint of chill to say it's Feb.

An Mmmbop day. HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL.

Edited February 3, 2012 by JOeKEool

[Mark92]

Hey all all round

Thanks Joe, you succeeded in making me blush a rarety indeed LOL.

I have come to believe I dont do sleep for long sessions. The more sleep I get, the groggier I am. And the chores seem endless. On two or three hours sleep, I'm perky, wide awake and enjoy each and every chore. Thick mud like coffee helps too LOL.

How many of you think sex, helps as a distraction? I dont just mean long sessions with a partner or other, but self-love too.

I'm a young lad who can admit to being a "wanker" LOL. I even called myself Sir Jackalot.

But since Stuby and I got closer, its lessened somewhat. I still do it, just not as much. And though I hate to call it "cyber sex" Its what we do, but its slow and erotic and full of love. LOL

TMI for some, i'm guessing, but its the truth. So bite me

Woke up with a blasting headache, but happier too so "swings and roundabouts" as the saying goes

Hope you're all having a good day, or not so bad day Hugs to all Marky

[JOeKEool]

Too much sleep is tiring. And yes,please. I will have some coffee. I go thru' gallons.

 

I guess I've been wanking for close to 45 years. Damn good at it now. It is a great distraction. Releases tension. Flushes the old prostate. My eyes are bad tho'.

 

I read Stuby's poem about you two. Thats got to be good. I had to shower.

 

Take care of that headache. Stay happy. Thanks for the chuckles you wanker !!!

[Mark92]

LMAO Joe! you made my day hahahahaha

Headaches all gone now, so big beaming smile

Hugs all

[hh5]

I think I need learn to sleep at a proper time and get up time as well.

Its so easy to screw up my biorhythm

 

@Mark

>> I see myself as ugly...because I was always told that

I see your avatar pic .. you're not ugly ... your better than average ... I bet I am not the only one to say ... your hot!!

I think you just encounter mean and abusive people .... just as much as what ever I encounter in my life

sad to say how it shaped our lives ...

I bet Joe can attest to his experience as well.

 

Its just a pitty we all can't really meet each other and help each other out for real

more like the neighborly thing to do

 

Has anyone from GA visited you?

[JOeKEool]

LMAO Joe! you made my day hahahahaha

Headaches all gone now, so big beaming smile

Hugs all

 

 

You gave me a good chuckle thats lasted all day. I wonder what I could do for distraction tonite???

[JOeKEool]

Harold, we are helping each other here. This is the best thing that ever happened to me.

I don't know how free I would feel to be myself in person. I'm still that scared little boy inside.

[Daisy]

I'm feeling happy today, but restless. I've not got anything much constructive to do, and it's raining outside.