Dating in the closet.

[zaf89]

Have any of you ever dated or been in love with a closeted person? How did you deal with it? Did it work out?

 

I went through this once in college, and it ended pretty badly because he basically refused to be seen with me in public for fear of his family finding out about us. I swore I'd never get in a relationship like that again, but now here I am falling for another closeted guy. I'm having fun, but I'm afraid things will take that familiar turn if we start getting more serious. I never want to try to force anyone to come out if they aren't ready, but I also have to think about myself and my own future. Plus I'm older now, and don't want to waste time on something that isn't going to pan out, and I definitely don't want to do the hiding secret-lover thing again. But I do really like this guy and empathize with his situation a lot. It's a tough situation. Any advice? 

Edited November 13, 2014 by zaf89

[Irritable1]

Until someone more knowledgeable responds---I'd be extremely careful. If someone feels they have to hide who they really are, the mere fact of the deceit is a stressor on the relationship already. And then if you keep a secret for a certain length of time, it can get harder to reveal instead of easier. It's not the same thing, but I've known straight Indians who kept American-born partners secret for years, because once you've started the pretense, it's hard to stop.

[zaf89]

I agree. The ex-boyfriend I referenced in the original post kept saying he was going to tell his family and friends, and I kept falling for that lie for two years before I realized it would never happen. And no matter how many times he told me he wasn't ashamed of me or of being gay, I always felt like his shameful dirty little secret, and it took a huge toll on my well-being. 

[Ron]

For brevity, and not to diminish any feelings you may have - I think you may have just answered your own question. For you, anyway.

 

My first boyfriend, that I lived with (five years), was done without him or me coming out to our families, and began when we were your age. Some never became aware and some made the leap to figuring out our relationship, but not a one said anything. Those that guessed waited for us to bring it up instead of drawing attention. We thrived, until we didn't, but it wasn't do to family interference that we broke up. Five years later when I finally came out to my family, at age thirty-five, because I was I was moving in with another man (who remains my partner) and it was the right time, I told my family and it was to no great fanfare or tears.

 

So yes, you can be with someone in the closet and still have a fine relationship. But unless your views and feelings have changed, I still think you may have answered your own question.

 

Edit to add: I don't know how I missed the fact of his not wanting to be seen in public with you. A person would be hard pressed to view this as anything less than irrational behavior even for someone that's not ready to be out. I know fear can make people do crazy things but unless you're wearing a sign announcing what sex you like to sleep with... You could definitely have the conversation, as mentioned, but this seems too far removed from the kind of relationship you're looking for.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Ron

[JamesSavik]

Are you willing to date someone that doesn't want to be seen with you in public?

 

Are you willing to be someones dirty little secret?

 

You know that's not going to work.

[Headstall]

My advice would be one word...communication...you have to talk about it. Don't write him off because of where he is now. It can be a slow process to get there...to where you are ready  to come out. Ask yourself the right questions. Do you trust him? Has he lied to you? Is he a good person?And then take what he says into account, when you have the answers to those questions. The biggest question of all is for you...can you wait while he gets ready? Good Luck...Gary

[Irritable1]

Edit to add: I don't know how I missed the fact of his not wanting to be seen in public with you. A person would be hard pressed to view this as anything less than irrational behavior even for someone that's not ready to be out. I know fear can make people do crazy things but unless you're wearing a sign announcing what sex you like to sleep with... You could definitely have the conversation, as mentioned, but this seems too far removed from the kind of relationship you're looking for. [\quote]

 

If I understand correctly, the boyfriend who didn't want to be seen with Zaf was the one back in college. Which is still a tough thing to come back from, as formative experiences go

[Ron]

Edit to add: I don't know how I missed the fact of his not wanting to be seen in public with you. A person would be hard pressed to view this as anything less than irrational behavior even for someone that's not ready to be out. I know fear can make people do crazy things but unless you're wearing a sign announcing what sex you like to sleep with... You could definitely have the conversation, as mentioned, but this seems too far removed from the kind of relationship you're looking for. [\quote]

 

If I understand correctly, the boyfriend who didn't want to be seen with Zaf was the one back in college. Which is still a tough thing to come back from, as formative experiences go

 

Ron: Then that means I got it wrong... and then I got it wrong(er). I can't put a silly emoticon here because they no longer show up for me but if I could have, I would have. It seems the quote thingy isn't working either.

[A.J.]

I dated someone in the closet when I lived in California.  It is a bad idea dating someone that isn't out.  He'd come to my place to have dinner.  We'd drive hours away and he would still look over his shoulder.  This man is still in the closet nearly 4 years later in one of the most gay-friendly states in the USA.

 

I'd equate it to dating a married man and expecting him to leave his wife for you.  He says he'll do it, but in the end he won't.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is his exact reason for not coming out?  Is he afraid of rejection?  Living with the enemy?  Is he reliant on a bigot's money?

[C J]

I think the best thing to do is tell him the same things you've told us in this post.  I think he needs to know if your going to make progress.  If your not open with him about your fears and concerns then you can't expect anything to change, and your going to be wasting your time again.  If he's not open to that kind of conversation then I would have to wonder what kind of future you could expect to have with him.

[jdmotion]

I dated someone in the closet once but I couldn't keep that going. It became difficult because he worked too much and he lived with family. it got to the point when I would only see him once a month and I couldn't handle that for too long. Ultimately I got tired of waiting to just hear from him and we parted ways. I guess it depends on how much you can handle. I full heartedly believe that if you care really deeply about someone you can take a lot but that always gets old. I suggest that you have a conversation with the person you are dating and make your feelings on the matter known. Maybe you can find even ground you can both live with.

[zaf89]

Edit to add: I don't know how I missed the fact of his not wanting to be seen in public with you. A person would be hard pressed to view this as anything less than irrational behavior even for someone that's not ready to be out. I know fear can make people do crazy things but unless you're wearing a sign announcing what sex you like to sleep with... You could definitely have the conversation, as mentioned, but this seems too far removed from the kind of relationship you're looking for. [\quote]

 

If I understand correctly, the boyfriend who didn't want to be seen with Zaf was the one back in college. Which is still a tough thing to come back from, as formative experiences go

Yeah, it was my ex who wouldn't go out in public with me. This new guy has been out in public with me and seems to be okay with it, as long as there's no tell-tale signs of affection whatsoever. 

 

I dated someone in the closet when I lived in California.  It is a bad idea dating someone that isn't out.  He'd come to my place to have dinner.  We'd drive hours away and he would still look over his shoulder.  This man is still in the closet nearly 4 years later in one of the most gay-friendly states in the USA.

 

I'd equate it to dating a married man and expecting him to leave his wife for you.  He says he'll do it, but in the end he won't.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is his exact reason for not coming out?  Is he afraid of rejection?  Living with the enemy?  Is he reliant on a bigot's money?

He still lives with his family, who I guess are pretty religious. As to why he hasn't come out to his friends- I have no idea. I guess the irrational fear that it'll eventually get back to his parents. But I can't say for sure. I love the dating a married man analogy- very apt. 

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and perspective. Having been through this once, and knowing how dramatic it became, might be clouding my judgement on this issue somewhat, so having others chime in is helpful.

[zaf89]

I dated someone in the closet once but I couldn't keep that going. It became difficult because he worked too much and he lived with family. it got to the point when I would only see him once a month and I couldn't handle that for too long. Ultimately I got tired of waiting to just hear from him and we parted ways. I guess it depends on how much you can handle. I full heartedly believe that if you care really deeply about someone you can take a lot but that always gets old. I suggest that you have a conversation with the person you are dating and make your feelings on the matter known. Maybe you can find even ground you can both live with.

Wow, this sounds exactly like my previous relationship with a closeted guy. And since his friends didn't know either, I took fourth place behind his job, his family, and his friends, which made me feel like shit, basically.

[jdmotion]

Wow, this sounds exactly like my previous relationship with a closeted guy. And since his friends didn't know either, I took fourth place behind his job, his family, and his friends, which made me feel like shit, basically.

Exactly he was so afraid of his family finding out that I never took priority. Finally i proudly took the situation in my own hands and confronted him about it. He refused to change so we parted. My own story shouldnt mean that everyones is like that but if theres no compromise then you really can't move forward. Its like having a long distance relationship with someone that lives ten minutes away from you.

[Irritable1]

I think Headstall has a point though. The current boyfriend is not the same person as the last one and you can't know how he'll react till you talk to him. And maybe you accept what he has to say and maybe not, but at least you could give him a chance to speak for himself.

[zaf89]

I think Headstall has a point though. The current boyfriend is not the same person as the last one and you can't know how he'll react till you talk to him. And maybe you accept what he has to say and maybe not, but at least you could give him a chance to speak for himself.

Absolutely, I completely agree. I have no plans to just write this guy off. He's sweet, funny, kind, and very affectionate in private. I understand his struggle, and I'm a patient man. And I don't want to come off like I'm giving him some kind of ultimatum, or as an insensitive tool. But it does hurt, and I can't help but take it personally even though I know it's about him and not really about me. I guess I'm at a loss on how to approach the subject with him. 

[SolarMaxx]

Yeah, it was my ex who wouldn't go out in public with me. This new guy has been out in public with me and seems to be okay with it, as long as there's no tell-tale signs of affection whatsoever. 

 

He still lives with his family, who I guess are pretty religious. As to why he hasn't come out to his friends- I have no idea. I guess the irrational fear that it'll eventually get back to his parents. But I can't say for sure. I love the dating a married man analogy- very apt. 

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and perspective. Having been through this once, and knowing how dramatic it became, might be clouding my judgement on this issue somewhat, so having others chime in is helpful.

 

 

WOW -- I just read this post on the thread! I admit to having some biases, but it seems to explain a lot! If you decide to keep seeing him, be prepared to extend a lot of patience and support. He probably really needs someone like you in his life now -- whether he realizes it or not -- and he needs to find a way to get himself the hell out of that house! 

Edited November 16, 2014 by SolarMaxx

[JamesSavik]

This topic sat here and made me mad. Now I'm gonna kick its ass.

 

 

There's a real good reason why you don't want to date someone who is in the closet: they will never commit to you.

 

If there is something so big in their life that it makes them deny themselves, where exactly do you think that you will fit in?

 

To the gentleman in the closet, your relationship is a scandal or an embarrassment. I know I've been there and made this very same mistake.

 

In Mississippi, the homophobia runs deep. It plays real games with peoples heads. I've been in a couple of relationships where the guy is ashamed after sex. Wanna talk about a real turd in your ego-punchbowl?

 

The way these people think, you are a dirty little hobby. If you get noticed, you are disposable.

 

Do you know what it feels like to be disposable? It's one of the crueler things that can happen to a person and surprise- our brothers in the closet living comfortable lies do it to us all the time. It's one of those blows that leave permanent marks. 

 

Like I said: I've been there and done that.

 

I'm not disposable and I won't be anybodies dirty little secret.

 

Please understand: I'm not judging YOU. I just want you to be clear on where you stand when you date inside the closet.

[zaf89]

This topic sat here and made me mad. Now I'm gonna kick its ass.

 

 

There's a real good reason why you don't want to date someone who is in the closet: they will never commit to you.

 

If there is something so big in their life that it makes them deny themselves, where exactly do you think that you will fit in?

 

To the gentleman in the closet, your relationship is a scandal or an embarrassment. I know I've been there and made this very same mistake.

 

In Mississippi, the homophobia runs deep. It plays real games with peoples heads. I've been in a couple of relationships where the guy is ashamed after sex. Wanna talk about a real turd in your ego-punchbowl?

 

The way these people think, you are a dirty little hobby. If you get noticed, you are disposable.

 

Do you know what it feels like to be disposable? It's one of the crueler things that can happen to a person and surprise- our brothers in the closet living comfortable lies do it to us all the time. It's one of those blows that leave permanent marks. 

 

Like I said: I've been there and done that.

 

I'm not disposable and I won't be anybodies dirty little secret.

 

Please understand: I'm not judging YOU. I just want you to be clear on where you stand when you date inside the closet.

You've summed up my feelings, my rage at this subject, very succinctly here. I agree 100%.