John Doe

This will get complicated really fast. As hh5 suggested it' hard to determine what on the internet is the primary source. In the purpose of youtube links (Soecifically my link that I posted), it was okay that I posted it in the forums because the creators themselves made it public domain. I didn't reuploaded the video to youtube to my own account but linked the video that the creators themselves uploaded to their specific video. Pulling news articles is the same, though not everything online is like that. Here's a site for people's reading, and peoples if you really want to know the best route is to do research yourself. But here's a link to start: http://www.copyright.gov/ It's hard to explain, so better for the curious to read than having someone else explain it. I'm only familiar with this copyright thing because one of my art classes (for a whole semester) we talked about this. We researched for 4 weeks and discussed it FOREVER. I can look into my binders and give you most law cases involving copyrights. The art class was about appropriated art. Art pieces that "borrows" things (aka ideas, concepts, songs, books - parts or whole, other art pieces, pictures, media of any sort) without permission, and making it its own. We at the end of the class had to make our own appropriated art. The discussions got confusing way fast and heated at times, but we all learned something and a lot. There are many appropriated artists out there. This copyright thing will only get more complicated as the tech advances and when creative artist pushes the boundaries (which usually means the sucessful ones who can afford to get sued).

I understand that you feel like it is necessary and vital for your story to have a link or method of showing the lyrics or hearing how a song sounds like, but you are mistaken. (*note when I'm referring to you or your, I'm not stating anyone specifically but referring you and your as the author of a specific work*) First your story should not rely on the song or lyrics to convey the feelings behind the scene that incorporates the music. As an author, it is your job to render these emotions with your own words. What is your story about? Is it about the song? Or is it about the people? In that moment that uses the song/lyrics... is it about the lyrics? Or the meaning behind the lyrics? Taking a guess ,I would say that most everyone's story is about the characters in the story and the moments inside those stories. Song/Lyrics are only a means to convey the emotions behind a scene and an author shouldn't rely on songs/lyrics to paint those emotions. If you are relying on song/lyrics to do that then you are failing as an author. You are the creator of that story and it should be your words that paints the emotions. It is the job of authors, it's what we do. For you to reread something again to get the feeling means that that author did not write well enough to convey those feelings, not because there wasn't any lyrics or linking to a song. Legal aside for the moment. Your story should invoke those feelings behind that music moment without the song or lyrics. Yes, readers should know that something is going on or what is being sung.... it creates a setting for the scene but to create the tone and emotions of the scene, you don't need the lyrics or song. The feelings behind the music scene is not about the lyrics or song but rather the emotions and relationship of what is happening. You are the author of the story, you should set the tone and mood of the story/scene not the song or lyrics. Who is feeling the emotions when the scene is happening? ... the characters and it's the job of the author to convey the emotions of the characters and make the readers sympathize or empathize with the character and scene, not to the song and lyrics. As an author if you are relying on song/lyrics to do your work then you are failing your job as an author to write out the scene correctly. Here let me explain with my example: That was my first example... I wrote it in like 30 seconds, but the purpose was suppose to show that the narrator felt that the person singing to him (or her) was singing the song as a means of showing the singer's support to the narrator that the singer believes in the narrator and that the narrator shouldn't give up on whatever he is trying to accomplish. Take this second example. John could sing. That much was true. He touched every high note effortlessly and every low note was breathed with an intensity that made people breathless. But the more he sang Journey's "Don't Stop Believing," the harsher the words fell to my ears. If my ears could bleed they would be now, and of course it wouldn't be from John's should-be platinum album voice. He just never believed in me. When I told him my dreams he laughed. His laugh was as pretty as his voice, but carried the same tone. I would never succeed in his eyes and he believed it, making me believe him. Now the same song was used. But the tones of each was different. Using or putting a link to the song or showing the lyrics would have no relevance. Because the scene wasn't about the song or lyrics but the emotions behind it. (Am I making sense?) It's all about the author and the prose that he/she uses. Like I stated above it's the job of the author to write those feelings, connections, and emotions. Leaving it to the song is not enough. Like my examples, they both used the same song and the tones were different. Showing/linking a song or lyrics accomplishes nothing to the story. Yeah sure it shows readers the lyrics or tune, but that tune or lyrics has no relevance to the meaning of the moment. Yeah you can pick songs that help to show the moment, but then you are just running away from your duty as a writer to show that meaning yourself in your own words. That's the luxury and best thing about writing. The stories you write are your own. Take control and paint the pictures for the readers. Don't rely on song lyrics and tunes. You are never forced to summarize as a writer, the only forcing done is the author forcing himself - limiting himself and his own creativity and expansive potential. Finally, on writing in songs/lyrics, if your reader wants to know how a song sounds like and they do go search or click the link you provide, in my opinion, you have failed as an author. Most authors, literary or commercial, would probably agree that as an author your story should be enthralling and readers should want to be in it. As an author, you should never give your readers an opportunity to put the book down or turn away from it. If a reader clicks a link or searches for how a song sounds like in your story then they are more interested in the sound of the song than your story. Meaning your story is not interesting enough for the reader to continue reading. Your readers should care more about what is next and how the music scene was relevant how/why to your story, not wonder how the song sounds like. The story is, after all, about the characters and the relationships in the story not the songs and lyrics used in the story. The song is a tool to evoke the feelings. Readers are there to appreciate the story that you write not the song that you put in. Besides unconsciously they do appreciate the small mention of the song because knowing artist and song title creates a setting and scene with is also vital to storytelling (knowing lyrics and a song's tune? not so much). Now on to the legal stuff That post was something I wanted to share with the GA community because I found it interesting. Forums and chats are spheres of communication. I was talking about the thing (art piece in this case... but could be song/movie/book) as itself, in relation to itself. This is a different circumstance then incorporating a song or lyrics into my own work as that post was not a claim to be a work of mine but rather bringing attention to a piece of work of another's. If they are using these things in their stories they should cite their usage. If it's in forums or chat they don't have to. You can't get sued for talking about a movie or an art piece at the museum. In forums and chat it is recognize that people are merely talking about the pieces according to their respective artist. They aren't being referenced inside another's work, like in a story. That's true, legal things is confusing. But that's why there are forums like this to discuss what we don't understand and/or know. Just put a little disclaimer/credit at the end if you aren't sure. And even if you do, you may even have to get rid of the story, if (that's a big if... though I may eat my words someday) someone who owns the rights or knows someone who owns the right reports you, and then the owner doesn't want you to use the lyrics/song even if you did credit them, you would still have to alter or take it down. Kinda like how some authors don't like you fan fictioning their characters. Their characters are their creative rights, and most likely those that do come under notice are taken down and/or changed. Wow I wrote a lot but I felt like voicing my opinions. It's just I see so much potential in many stories that uses songs and they fall short way too soon, much too fast because they are using the songs and lyrics to show what they should be doing in their own writing, which would have been more powerful and absorbing. And to Chase, yes you should cite that, if the song is what you are referring to. Now the term, "I'm a single lady" can just be that a term. The character is just stating a status and not referring to the song. Any verse or lyrics should be referenced at beginning or end, if it's obvious that the usage is borrowed. That being all said, I'm not saying you shouldn't use song/lyrics... authors just shouldn't rely on them. Now I will return to writing my stories after writing 4 pages here...

You got that right... haha I did watch that one after I "discovered" them I like spent two days watching all their videos. Their "Technology ruins romance" shorts are pretty funny.

Hey my friend made me watch this video and I was rolling my eyes and crossing my arms. It sounded cheesy and well just cheesy and then I watched it and let me tell you... I don't think I have ever experienced feeling sympathy for a pair of glasses, a telephone, an umbrella, a scarf, and mostly for a coffee cup. It's about a girl, but I think we can all relate because it deals with love. The video is artistically done well, the script/ words are moving and poigant (<- spelling? Too lazy to fix), the music is soothing... everything is amazing and I hope you all watch it.

I had nightmares from Dawn of the Dead. I hate any movies about Zombies. They freak the crap out of me. My theroy if there should ever be real zombies. I'll have a gun and make sure I'll have a bullet for myself... so when I'm cornered I can shot myself in the head. *shivers* I hate zombies. (and scary movies in general, even if they are scary for others... haha)

OKay I'm in writer mode... as in I'm responding to how I would write something.... about your comment. You shouldn't rely on lyrics from a song to convey the feelings of your characters (unless you are writing a script for a musical). As writers we should write the feelings out. In my writing I like to show the feelings and emotions through words and movement. A touch on the forearms... or a breath on the ears... In my opinion it's more relevant and all the more intimate because you spent the time to convey these feelings and readers are actually put through the thought process and actions of your characters. How a song sounds like, has no relevance. It doesn't matter. I can read a story and they could mention a rock heavy metal song about love loss and I would never care how that song sounds. It's the way the auhor incorporates the song into the story. Maybe something like... John's voice was sweet and smooth and as he sang, his words trickled into my ears like warm water. The lyrics were sorrowful and yet I felt alive. He was singing to me, for me. Even though I hated Journey's "Don't Stop Believing," the way John sang the song warmed my soul. He was speaking to me through the lyrics of the songs. Conveying to me the words he could never say himself. He believed in me. That's just an example... but does that make sense?

I finished reading the book and it was AMAZING!!!! I'm still in awe. I loved the protaganist and the family dynamic in the story was just amazing. I felt for Thom and *sighs* and the ending was ... gah I don't want to give it away. Yuo all have to read it. It touches all the tpoics that concerns a gay boy in the closet... the yearning for a father who will accept him, the perfect boy, etc... and then add in the super hero touch... it's amazing!!!!

That falls under accountability and statement of authorship. It's like writing a research paper and not quoting your source. That would be plaigarism. Even the smallest quotation that isn't quoted could be a violation of authorship. Stories like on nifty and GA are still subjected to disclaimers as a common courtesy and yes, they still need that disclaimer, as you are in admission about using someone elses' work. Youtube songs and lyrics... you mean posted at the end of your chapter of your story or something? It's a round about way of saying something isn't yours... I wanna ask, did you read the link? It's explains it well... ultimately if the people who owns the songs ask something to be taken down they will have to be taken down even if only a small part of their song has been used. They have that right and Nifty and GA moderators will have to obey. Then as the writer you just have to make something up to replace the song or use a different one.

Lyrics sites are different as they are just documenting the lyrics of a song from an artist or group. There is no new creative outlet for the songs and they aren't making a profit from the lyrics themselves. Whereas stories walks a thin line of infringement on the rights of the songwriters/artists because they can be profitable and the discussion/debate of creativity can be challegned. Kind of like plaigarism (<- probably spelled wrong and too lazy to look for right spelling). When it comes down to it... it the song a strong part of the story and carries a lot of meaning? Then what part of that story can stand on its own as your own ideas? Basically it's to protect the songwriters/artist from people claming their work and creative ideas. Lyric sites don't claim fresh ideas like stories from writers they document what's already in existence.

I know we all love to read each others work here and some of us dream of being published writers (I am one of those)... but I stumbled upon a book today at the bookstore by pure accident. I was surprised it was in the Young Adult section (actually I was more surprised that it was in the book store period, since I live in super conservative America) but it's called Hero by Perry Moore. It's about superheroes and it's narrative and protaganist is a gay boy with super powers. I read the first chapter in the bookstore and had to buy the book. I brought it home and had to do all these other chores before I could read it. Now I read about 5 chapters and I'm hooked... only I have to do some volunteer work tomorrow early so I have to go to bed. I just want to share this with everyone so they know about this book. I'd like to support any "mainstream" book out there that involves th GLBT community and I applaud the author for writing such a book targeted to the mainstream audience. As it is a YA novel there's no smut (thank the heavens), but the book tackles issues of family, identity, and the strength or superhero inside us all. Check it out from your library or go buy it, I'm sure many of you will love it.

Sorry to put you through this and I understand where you are coming from, but as someone who is in Kan's position I can relate wholly to him (as some of my readers would agree). I get emails from Taiwan, China, and Asain Americans who say I have written their lives. Someone in this forum has put the thoughts and actions behind Kan's and his family's decision pretty well. (My assumptions follows)... You're from a western society where individuality is prized and respected and in eastern society it is second rate to the collective being, whether in the form of a family, company, or organization. Things are done to further the ambitions of that entity not the individual. So as an individual, yes, I can see how someone can dislike or have no respect for Kan and his family but from the viewpoint of someone whose raised in the collectivist viewpoint, I say Kan's family is doing what they are suppose to do (though the cousin is just a dick excuse the langauage) and Kan has a hard decision to make. I commend him and anyone who has been and is currently in his situation to challenge and find his own meaning, his self, his individuality, risking the fall and pride of his collective group (family). I must say I'm am in no means like Kan. I keep telling myself that I will never tell my parents or family. I can't even fathom dating some guy while I'm living in the same state as my parents. Nephy, It is a touchy subject. I'm intrigued on your viewpoints though I am sure it deals with unconditional love and respect to ones identity no matter the means. Family is family and they should be loved no matter what... that's where I think you're coming from and I can see that (and agree) but disowning someone and never talking to someone does not mean that the family does not love that person disowned. (Mai is a real person. My cousin whom I don't know anymore. Everything about her is unknown. My aunt talks about her sometimes, how she misses her, but asking at the same time why she would "run away" with a white guy. My aunt would say things like how she wonders how my cousin is doing but also that she is not welcomed in her home. I hear no hate in her voice when she reminsence about my cousin, but rather love. It's like a nostalgic longing. It goes both way... where you wonder and can't fathom how Kan and his family work the way they do... Kan's family cannot fathom why Kan would put himself above the family. If you unconditionally love your family you would do what is expected of you. It's two different worlds. Two different cultures. A culture clash and what do one do when they are placed in that situation?

Drewbie, We will see. Hopefully many of you aren't too put off yet. There's only a few chapters left so I hope everyone keeps reading. Hooray!

Check out this site if you are a fan of facebook, here. Some of the posts are hilarious. It talks about facebook fails.

*nods head, personally thinking, 'This guy makes no sense.'* haha

Haha Linxe I just noticed your post and I posted the same thing....relatively speaking, so sorry for repeated "opinion."

I think it is good that this prom thing is getting attention. Equality needs to start somewhere. I do not believe that this prom issue is not as important than Don't ask don't tell or equality in the work place. It is of equal importance. Say Don't Ask Don't tell and equality in the work place is passed in our favor... so then it makes it okay for our children to be discriminated based on their sexual orientation? I would hope not. I want my children to have the same rights as any other child as I want the same rights as anyone else in this country. "I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by [their sexual orientation] but by the content of their character. I have a dream today!" As Doctor King has said. When we discriminate against our own children, saying it's okay for them to lose their rights and be discriminated against then what right do we have to demand such equality? But I do agree... Don't ask Don't tell and workplace equality does need focus and I do believe it's being pushed to the back. We as a community need to figure out how to bring those subjects forward.

Ricky I love how you did NOT answer my question at all.

Hmm it seems someone just doesn't like to see what I have to say. Hehe. Even though it's just a different way of saying some of the same things. I understand what you are saying here and I respect that, but I lean towards the viewpoint of literary work. Hence I believe there are more meaningful things out there to write about than getting in someone's pants (or the process of or the process of maintaining that relationship). There's a reason why romance and erotic novels are not considered literary. Are they not worth your time then? As Adam stated... love it or hate it. There is also a reason why those kinds of books get publish. I have said it once already (and got a minus rating as I don't know why) but Nifty has a targeted audience as do GA here (much like everything that exists out there in the world). Just know where you are posting your story and don't expect too much when your story is not geared for that audience. You'll get feedback that may or may not be useful to you. I will reuse my analogy... a historical fiction writer may not get the best feedback from a fantasy writer. Two different worlds. Completely agree with you Krista. If you want to publish a work, to go through the whole process of getting an agent and publisher, I wouldn't post it anywhere. Work on it and have close, visible, friends (someone you actually know in person... look what happened to Stephanie Meyers.... someone leaked her "new" book (from Edward's perspective... which by the way I think is a lazy way of writing some thing new and I feel is more fueled by the green bills than creativity... whether it's from the author or publisher who knows)) to edit it. Gay folks have always been on the back burner and will continue to do so (our time will come dammit!). I only heard of a few published gay works that is decently doing well. One being Geography Club (cannot remember the author) but the author is represented by a good agent and good publishing house. His book has been bought to be turned into a muscial or play, I cannot remember which. Free concept... I would have to agree. In my research, (as I have been doing agent/publishing research for about two years now... since I am working on a novel for mainstream audiences and would like to be published) I have found that the research seems to back that claim though it does happen. Very rarely. So bottom line... Know your audience. Know your host's (whether it be classroom, website, newsletter, magazine,etc.) intended audience. And most importantly, yourself, meaning you have to fully understand your work. This is something most beginnger and intermediate authors are still missing or trying to figure out. I have written stories halfway through only to realize the story is no longer about what I intended it to be. Sometimes that's a good thing and other times it's a WTF, what the hell did I write thing. If you know your story you can filter your feedback. and... Regardless of what anyone tells you or say... continue to write and read... if writing is what you want to do. That's the only way to get better at it. Though some people may disagree with me here. (i.e. one of my professors, who happens to have a book coming out soon and the media is picking his book up for other reasons... he thinks a person has the skills to write or don't... that there are some who show potential and then could never surpass that potential and that you have to have a decent grip on wiritng naturally to be good.... oh just replaying that conversation in my head kinda annoys me).

Ah I see. You want a co-author.

Questions though some of you may never even look at this since this thread is so very quiet. But pardon my slowness in updating. My life is pretty much on turbulent waters and I'm stuck in a canoe in the deep blue sea. School is about 4 weeks away from being over and it may seem a long time, but it's not really in school terms. But bare with me until then and the chapters will come faster then. But on to the questions... or rather set up and then questions... I have the story's main plot down and we know it's about the destruction of the The Silver Island and the mysterious disappearence/extravagant cover up of Solmina, the first magic school. But as I write I want to explore some of the characters more, meaning an introduction of more new characters. This story is getting way epic. Haha. I know what I kind of have plans to do... my questions are... (and it probably won't deter my decision in any way but I like to ask anyway because that's how I am) Is the character count overwhelming? Would more make it overwhelming? If it is already overwhelming how do you keep up with them? Thanks! Oh and free free anytime to write anything about the story. Characters you like... would like to see more of... explanations of certain things in the story (of what has been revealed)... basically almost anything.

I would do it, but in my past experiences I never finsih past the third chapter. When it's not my characters I lose interest in writing very fast. Plus some of you may not like my writing style. Haha. And James... silver bullets and stakes don't work against Meyer's version of Werepires.

Sorry James I think I read your sentiments elsewhere in a different thread. Reading three or four threads at the same time, mixes me up. But I feel they are relevant to this thread also.

Oh if you could hear me say it. It'd be nice to hear the tones of one's voice when reading something, but you guys don't know me well enough to hear my voice. I'm just a stranger on the internet. There were moments of sarcasm mixed with my sense of humor in it... molestation was exagerated cause I thought'd it be funny. Oh well take it as you will. Masturbation is healthy by the way. And you can only sexually molest yourself if you feel guilty afterwards. And you kinda proved my point... you're here on GA are you not? I'm just saying if Nifty rubs you the wrong way in any way don't force yourself into something that makes you uncomfortable. If you are worried about readership and feedback, I just wanted to say people at nifty eventually find themselves elsewhere. Maturbation point is that readers who remains on nifty (as a generalization to include many but not all) never branching out to other sites, like the erotica. Nothing against them but that's their tastes. As James mentioned earlier, the Nifty audience is targeted for a specific audience. Heres an analogy: It's like writing a historical fiction and having some fantasy lover critique and judge your work... they can but keep in mind they are reading from a different angle, perspective, and with different expectation.

It's good to hear that you had no problems taking your story off. On the porn writing... I agree with James' sentiments. There's a time and place for sex scenes in a good meaninful story, which is usally never, and there an elloquence required to pass off a sexual scene as something relevant to the story. I stand with James (though assumingly and James please do correct me if I am mistaken) that I feel that sex in stories are not there to elevate anything in the story but give readers and the author the satisfaction that they are doing it. Why not protray this level of intimacy and or advancement of relationship through other methods? The other method is more poignant and relevant. Some writers allude to sex but I like how they don't describe the sex. Describing the sex is like a "bad romance novel," like the ones at the supermarket check out, where people snicker at such books. The moment I read a story with descriptive sex I drop it because descriptive sex to me is not a valuable point relevant to elevate or move the story along. Very few writers had pulled it off, but when you read those excerpts the focus is not on the sex but the meaning behind subtle actions or things while the intercourse is taking place. There's a difference. This argument is similar to those of the publishing world.... literary vs. commercial, which translate to written well with meaning and value vs. written to entice a specified audience. There's nothing wrong with either... but if you want to be part of the former grouping you have to sit and think about what you want to write and the meanings behind each scene whether they were intentional. If they weren't? It is in need of revision.

Why is everyone missing the fact that... nifty gains readers and that has lead them to here on GA. Do you not see the flow of readers and authors alike? If there's a flow, there's no need to go to Nifty if you do not feel comfortable over there. I don't and I will no longer post on that site. They can have 19 chapters of my story and they are entitled to that but that is it. Basically my point is you found GA through nifty. Others will do the same. So the overall point you'll get your readers and such AND you won't have to battle against a lame rule of author ownership. Besides I rather get my readers via GA. Most folks over at nifty are there to do sexaul molestation to themselves. The seious and good readers/writers move on to different sites once they get a good footstep on this online writing business.