Dannsar

Right, I composed this one while driving to the west coast of scotland today. I nearly drove off the road I laughed so hard. Now, technically, it is not a limerick, but a lyric. For those of you who don't understand the cultural references, a finger of fudge is a small candy bar we have in the UK (elsewhere?), which is billed in adverts the same way as Milky Ways ... not enough to spoil your appetite. So, it's all sweetie based ... and there is a tune, but words don't do it justice. In fact words don't do the tune at all A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat A finger in fudge is better though, it's really quite a treat But there's nothing can be compared though, to licking the lollipop Cos a finger of fudge is never enough, it's just a tiny treat

JG tsk tsk Context is everything NightOwl, you're right. Still, the man's a pest. On the other hand ... it's great that he is allowed to say these things. At least he doesn't leave us needing prejudices to work out his intellectual value. He's made it plain for us. Dipstick!

Hey Cailean. This seems to be a pretty intense emotional experience for you. Pretty heartfelt. It seems to convey very contradictory emotions. Perhaps even an uncertainty about what you want out of this proposition. Was that your intent? If so, it might he useful to try to concretise that a little more, but still staying on the metaphoric side of language. The imagery in the second stanza is a bit confusing. 'Guided' ... gilded? The spelling with a 'u' is a different thing. Anyway, this image doesn't seem to resolve. My sense is that you are trying to imply a protective cage. That would resolve into the next line. But then in your cage, which is strong and true, the world comes crashing down on you. Now, as I said above, it may be that these contradictiions are intentional, in which case perhaps they need a bit more illuminating, somehow. On the other hand, I might just be a blind bugger! For all that the third stanza has a similar problem of contradictions, I can seeohiw they might work, and this is a really nice stanza. I also like the way you have repeated it as stanza five, kind of like a refrain, but also as a period, marking a position. Its implied lack of resolution is neat, too.

Sooooperb lol ... that's the closest we've come to a proper bawdy one so far lol Cheers dude

Honestly ... I shouldn't be allowed to stand around thinking in the shower ... stuff like this happens When any young guy needs reliefs He just slips his hand in his briefs If it isn't too chilly He pulls out his willy But he'll never admit it - GOOD GRIEF! If you've ever been up on the altar Felt that tingly thing in your psalter If you think of the sin Then, it's trouble you're in And your hands will be tied in a halter

Eh, here now, what's all this prudery Gurning, complaining 'bout 'lughdery' But where is the fun If naughtiness none To hang with u, keep up the rudery!

The guy at the bar was appalling The fill of his pants was enthralling Twould be quite a stretch To take the old letch Which spelling to use! Och stop bawling There is a young lad from New Guinea Whos orgasms sound hell of a tinny When he shoots on the hip The noise on his lip Makes him sound like greetin wee ninny A man in a boat fishing pollocks Had a nasty wee turn with the rowlocks He got whacked with an oar In a place that was sore Now he's buoyed up by massive great bollocks And that's all for tonight folks!

There's Markies and Frosties and Cias And Trevors, and KCs, ... Marias Akies and Lugh And Agaiths here too And all of them full of ideas

Here's one from last night's writings ... this also refers to a chat room convo ... the rest are in my collection 'Bits'. Marky, the farmer, thought he smelled a bit off So he stripped off his simmet and jumped in the trough Cool water's the thing Brings winter from spring And forget about asking to cough

MARKY you know all this stuff going on in the UK about super injunctions? Well, you are now a victim of just such an interest Maria has put it out there ... now we need the goss, dude. And dinnae u bother with any o they Giggs tactics SPILL fo the thrill sir lol ** sits patiently awaiting comprehensive reply **

If you live in New York go get married The voting and stuff has been carried For men loving men Commiting and then Living their lives not being harried Well done New York for formalising the right of same sex couples to marry.

Go USA Go New York Is this narriage as in exactly the same as straight couples? In the UK we have Civil Partnerships which are similar to marriage, but a little different. Oh, and you call it marriage over here, lots of people will fuss and the Daily Mail will be apopleptic lol If you live in New York go get married The voting and stuff has been carried For men loving men Commiting and then Living their lives not being harried

Haha fabby

I've been writing limericks all my life ... I wrote this one when I was eight .... There was a young fly who went flying And bumped into one who was trying He said 'deary me' What a sad sight to see That fly isn't flying, he's crying I recently returned to limericks, and there are eight new ones in my random collection on here called 'Bits'. ... Here is the last one in that series ... You know how it makes you feel sick, Getting your tonsils all massaged by dick, The thing is to swallow, Cos what is to follow, Is lovely and juicy and thick. So that one's a bit naughty, but hey ho! Mike00 (above) said it was very difficult to write a good AND clean one. I'm not sure that it's impossible, but there is something about the form that just makes 'worthy' writing unreadable, and 'unworthy' writing a pure joy ... ok, well ... not so pure

Well, Mark! I'm glad I'm only a moany git, and that someone else had the time, patience, and sheer exasperation to document all that. Brilliant. I think that will probably be the end of the life of this thread! If people like Nick Archer say it, and Mark Arbour endorse it ... the rest of us can really have very little to add. Oh, and it is also a screed of very good writing advice too! Thank you

Oh dear JG3, if I had thought that would be the outcome, I'd have made a bit of an issue about it in the opening argument. For new writers it is almost inevitable that you will fall into genre cliche traps. Just look at my story Just like it is inevitable that a newly walking baby will fall over, hurt themselves, and bawl the house down! But the baby gets up and keeps going. And what's more, they don't bugger off to the local nursery and say "I'm gonna stay here until I can walk properly and not infect my home with my perambulatory inabilities". (Lordy, my bf has obviously been exposing me to faaaaar too much Stewie on Family Guy. Note to self ... avoid it like the plague rather than like sex with ugly people! ) I'm pretty much a newbie here myself, but I can't for a minute think that anybody on GA would want a new author to stay away until they had 'learned the craft'. After all, that is why we have people like Cia who do very good and helpful reviews. And also there is an editor and beta system which, while I'm still not sure how it works entirely, seems to me to be a good way of getting guidance from people with experience who you admire. So, for heaven's sakes, please don't take it away and do it somewhere else. GA might actually want to help you, and they'd not be averse to having the next star author bestseller on their hands, either ... I'm willing to bet.

Wow, that was different. The constant repetition was almost melodic, actually. I liked the almost concrete poetry structure. Never allowed to get far from the central point of the pain. Very evocative. Thank you.

OMG, there are soooo many thngs that are wrong with this. And there's one that is right - it's bloody fantastic. I loved loved loved this. The form is superb. It's kinda like your other story, but oh so much more together. It felt poetic. And for some reason Suzanne Vega's Tom's Diner kept coming into my head. Things to think about ... 'some edifices while some just plain abodes' .. lordy! It may be a bad male thing, but once the chase had been done and those words had been said, I'd have been very happy for it to end there. That's not to say there rest of it was wrong or anythjng, but it kinda seemed like it was a natural end point. What came after was interesting, and very useful for future work, or just for getting a message of all people being the same across, but I would have been happy without it. Anyway, who cares. This was just fantastic. A wee tweak somewhere (a park or a wood are wild places, no? lol) or other would have got this into the summer anthology and lots more people would have got to read it. Brilliant. Truly.

Funny, I though about a third of the way in that there was a tone of death being presaged in your writing. And I guess there kinda was a death. Death of memory. Death of enchantment. Death of expectation. Death of innocence. I don't know where you're going to go with this, but I sure as hell hope it involves a kick in the nads for Chance ... and not even necessarily metaphorical, either Your writing style is fairly clean, but it does need to flow a bit more. I think the way to put it metaphorically is that you seem like an art guide describing each picture, but not connecting the themes between them in series. A lead on from one sentence / paragraph which is more linking to the next would be good. The other thing I felt here was a sort of absence, a kind of lack, a coldness, except between Jay and the guy at the locker. Obviously I don't know if that is intended, but I worry a little that it may make reading a bit difficult. Take a look at you vocabulary. Some words are more esoteric or alternative than is necessary, and they jar a bit at times. There is a terrible fear of repetitive use of words in creative writing. But sometimes its fine, and certainly better than using, for instance, pantechnicon instead of truck! Anyhow, I like the ideas here. I like the characters, and I like your style. But I'm warning you now Jay just better never end up with Chance, cos he's an arse who isn't going to change in a hurry. Or at least, you're going to have to be awfully clever at finding a way to achieve that without this seeming like a schmaltzy episode of Glee. But hey, maybe you are that clever. I sure hope so, cos then I can continue to look forward to reading more. Oh, and soon, too. I hate reading unfinished stories, so until the 'complete' sign goes in the window ...

Oh, and Nephy ... no ruddy wonder ... you're terrifying (but I will get there ... perhaps now, even, since I'm finished the anthology)

Well, I reckon, they're bonkers , but I also think they are perfectly "acceptable". I mean, we do all need to escape. Heck, sometimes I wish I could escape permanently So, I reckon I can see Cyhort and Agaith's point. I hadn't really considered that people might want these for a reason, rather than for, say, laziness. So, I guess I've learnt something there. This is purely a matter of taste, and I don't for a minute believe I have a right to demand blood and guts pain at every turn. On the other hand, I kinda think that escaping blackness into whiteness just presents a different set of problems. And it's quite difficult to 'believe' in a character if everything goes awfully well. Just as much as it is difficult if everything goes awfully hell, too. I mean, is it really the case that lots of kids get thrown on the street by belligerent fathers? Actually Stetson Boy by JC is a great version of the very sweet being tempered by the pretty awful, and nobody could call that story real, fabulous though it was. Jian's story went all round the houses to get to the sweet bit, via an awful lot of bitter. That made it all the more delectable. These are only two recent paradigms, by the way, and should not be seen as reflections of this topic. What made the sweet escapism positive, was the tribulation en route. Anyhow, I'm not trying to solve a problem here, just trying to get a grip on it, and perhaps try to effect a little change where possible. The world would be hell were it to reflect my world view.

Having spent a lot of time on Nifty, and now having arrived here, I find that it is a truth, if not universally acknowledgeable, then certainly supportable, that writers of gay oriented fiction have an overbearing fondness for true love in the first chapter, which goes on forever and which is as sweet and understanding as a politician handing out lollies to babies on election day. Often young characters fall truly madly deeply in love with most incredible gentleness, stacks of understanding, huge amounts of quiet forebearance of their hidden sexuality, and make the most mature decisions possible. And these, by the way, are decisions that their grandparents would fail to make, even with the wisdom of their years. GA authors at least have a breadth of styles, but even here there is a tendency for Josh and Ben to discuss their emergent sexuality in a grown up fashion, before making the stressful decision to come out to each other. And thy are way frequently each others' best friend since before the womb, and love each other in that way only straight guys can. I mean, come on. Since when were fifteen year old males going to be anything other than awkward with this topic. And once they'd got it out there, since when were they not going to get it all out there, and as many ejaculations as possible, as fast as possible. There would be little caressing of smooth skin. There is statistically little chance of them both being six packed hunks. There is very little likelihood that they would never have a disagreement. The topic of love is pretty unlikely to raise its head in the first five paragraphs. And gentle breaking in of a partners anus with the apparently requisite standard of three fingers is almost obligatory. Yet, it is these nirvanas we are sold over and over. Or is it just me?

Weird. Not wonderful. But not Wacko either. I can't work out who's more lost ... you or me. But I'm pretty well certain it's me This story kinda oozes meaning. The trouble is that there is a double contradiction somewhere that obscures what you may or may not be trying to get across. Driving to Nantes is hardly a walk on the wild side. This woman ... what's her function? I just had too many questions and there are no answers. Even you don't have answers, I don't thnk. The trouble with writing an anti climax, and not giving some other form of point, is that it all ends up looking like a smug device. Perhaps that's unfairly cynical. And, at any rate, nice and neat is almost as contemptible. But it just feels very patronising. Almost like you have taken our attention. Either just because you want to. In which case you are an attention seeker. Or because you can. In which case you're just a spoilt brat, or even, dare I say it, an intellectual rapist. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think you are either of those two things. But if you insist on using your very obvious talent just setting up mysteries with no metanarrative or overdetermining impulse, then you are doing no more than a writing exercise, and that is just wasteful. Michaelangelo didn't paint the Sistine Chapel as an exercise. He was an artist communicating with his talent. Please don't waste yours with deliberate opacity. A statement of mystery is no more than a statement. Surely you want a discussion? If not, I don't want to know.

Ooooh, naughty Jian ... so many dark alleys, so many cul de sacs. I always wanted it to be Craig. I think I'd have been really upset if it wasn't. But the subtle way you shifted the possibilities around and led us up the garden path was really good. Even when it seemed obvious, you were always there pushing us of down some ruddy detour! Loved it. Your writing style is good, and uncomplicated, no fancy words where plain language will do. That keeps it very accessible, and maintains the pace. However, I think you need to work on your dialogue a bit. i.e. "your character speech is somewhat overwritten and unrhythmic" "your dialogue's a bit jerky and technical." The example shows that the rhythm of speech is important. Try writing what you want to get across, and then say it out loud in the way that feels most natural to your own speech rhythms. A paradigm would be the 'f' word. In Scottish English it would be used thus: "I'm just not gonna ........ do it", whereas in English or American English it might well be: "I'm just not ...... gonna do it". The flows are completely different. Now, I'm not saying either is right. That is entirely up to the writer's own idiom. But it shows that a word used or not used, placed one place or another, can make a big difference to the rhythm of speech, and the flow of the story. By the way, this is a universal principle and not restricted to the 'f' word. And it's not necessarily restricted to speech either. There is one other major difficulty that I have, but it is a very common one, so I'll take it to a forum, so as not to lay it all on your head. I really liked this story, and your manipulation of the readers is really very good. Very enjoyable. Thank you.

Well, all the best things are a teency bit flawed. I liked all three characters in this story, although I reckon Red is more likely to be bled than anything else. Semen in the eye! Lol, that would disable anybody. Pure hell, that one For me, I would have liked a wee bit more turning up the sexual frisson between the two MOs. I did wonder about them, but it was not nearly clear enough that there was an extant sexual relationship. If there was, it turned out a bit boring. If there wasn't, where was the tension? The first two paragraphs make absolutely no sense in view of the rest of the story. At least two malapropisms! But rather an enjoyable story with some characters built for harmless fun and pranks, rather than just careless nastiness. Even Red didn't actually seem to get used and abused. I'd like to see this pair in a novella, perhaps even a James Bond or 24 type spoof. Or dare I say it ... pink panthers